Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Morbius]

Apologies if this has been covered before (I haven't read all 1800+ posts) but for those who are convinced that Wiggins is doping, when do you think he started? In particular, did he start in 2009, or was he already doping in his days of track success and the autobus?

 

[the sceptic]

Remember what you posts in the mod thread earlier?

While you do have a point, you cannot complain about it when you instigate a fight. Wiggins riding the Vuelta is hardly a Clinic issue especially if it's so obvious that he is doping regardless.
And del is correct - when the article states that BW is riding the Vuelta in a bid to win the Worlds, then it's pretty obvious which is the priority.

In 2012 the best preparation for winning the olympics TT was to peak for 6 months and winning the tour. Why should he now suddenly need to copy the preparation of Martin to be able to win the worlds? Maybe if it was still 2008 i could understand this logic, but im pretty sure Wiggins could ride for the GC in the vuelta and still win the worlds TT afterwards if he wanted to.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

In 2012 the best preparation for winning the olympics TT was to peak for 6 months and winning the tour. Why should he now suddenly need to copy the preparation of Martin to be able to win the worlds? Maybe if it was still 2008 i could understand this logic, but im pretty sure Wiggins could ride for the GC in the vuelta and still win the worlds TT afterwards if he wanted to.

I really have no idea what you are asking me.
But Wiggins in the article you linked says "I felt last year that I was short of racing when it came down to the worlds".

Pretty obvious that the Vuelta is good prep for the Worlds.

 

[BroDeal]

Apologies if this has been covered before (I haven't read all 1800+ posts) but for those who are convinced that Wiggins is doping, when do you think he started? In particular, did he start in 2009, or was he already doping in his days of track success and the autobus?

2009 after Paris-Nice. Wiggins targeted the time trial, thinking it was perfect for him as reigning Olympic champion. He was beaten by Contador and was literally crying about it. I think that is the point when he snapped and decided to do what everyone else was doing.

 

[the sceptic]

I really have no idea what you are asking me.
But Wiggins in the article you linked says "I felt last year that I was short of racing when it came down to the worlds".

Pretty obvious that the Vuelta is good prep for the Worlds.

Im not asking anything. Just saying that its still possible Wiggins can ride for the win in the vuelta.

So as you can see, it wasnt me instigating anything. It was del who started with the cheap insults.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Im not asking anything. Just saying that its still possible Wiggins can ride for the win in the vuelta.

So as you can see, it wasnt me instigating anything. It was del who started with the cheap insults.

Sure, he actually could. He could target the top of the Vuelta GC and win the Worlds if in super top form. He could.
But due to the fact Bradley himself says he will use the Vuelta to target the Worlds means that the Vuelta is not the target, its the Worlds. Pretty simple stuff.

And del did rightly point out the ridiculousness of your point bringing in Horner. If you're going to put shark bait out then don't complain when you end you end up hooking one.

 

[The Hitch]

2009 after Paris-Nice. Wiggins targeted the time trial, thinking it was perfect for him as reigning Olympic champion. He was beaten by Contador and was literally crying about it. I think that is the point when he snapped and decided to do what everyone else was doing.

Considering a few months later he is in Paris telling Ned boulting what a huge honour it is to be riding with Contador in the mountains, it's very clear that the doping must have started in this window.

A human being does not go from being angry at dopers who beat him, to worshipping them when they cost him his "childhood dream" of winning the tdf, without taking it up himself.

 

[wirral]

If you compare what Wiggins says in interviews 6 months apart, they often totally contradict each other. He has become quite polished at saying the right thing at the right time in rather a bland, vague way. Call it lying or self-protection, whatever you like. I always get the feeling he is mocking the interviewer. I would not be surprised if he has had a considerable amount of media training.

So, if he says it is a honour to be riding with Contador in the mountains, take it with a pinch of salt. It is a soundbite for the press to print and everything goes on without controversy.

 

[deviant]

A lot of what Wiggins says is a 'mickey take'.... the Brits on the board probably understand what I mean.
Most of what he says/means gets lost in translation if you're not familiar with his kind of humour.
I like him and it's not a jingoistic thing, he's been good on the track, good on the road and seems to actively take the **** in most interviews he does.... Sagan seems like a good laugh too.
Cycling needs more people like that and less of the sour puss Contadors of the world.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Considering a few months later he is in Paris telling Ned boulting what a huge honour it is to be riding with Contador in the mountains, it's very clear that the doping must have started in this window.

A human being does not go from being angry at dopers who beat him, to worshipping them when they cost him his "childhood dream" of winning the tdf, without taking it up himself.

Personally, I would excuse Wiggins for not having access to a time machine in 2009.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Considering a few months later he is in Paris telling Ned boulting what a huge honour it is to be riding with Contador in the mountains, it's very clear that the doping must have started in this window.

A human being does not go from being angry at dopers who beat him, to worshipping them when they cost him his "childhood dream" of winning the tdf, without taking it up himself.

Excellent. You've just saved the sport a pile of cash by eliminating the need for dope testing. Simply analyse what riders say and issue bans accordingly. I'm gob-smacked that no-one since the days of the Ducking Stool has thought of such a fool-proof way of determining the truth!

 

[The Hitch]

Personally, I would excuse Wiggins for not having access to a time machine in 2009.

Umm in 2007 he said Contador deserved to be doubted and went very hard after contadors manager -Johan Brunyeel. He also got told in 2008 by jv that jb was running a doping programme.

And yet 1 year later he needs a time machine ?

 

[The Hitch]

If you compare what Wiggins says in interviews 6 months apart, they often totally contradict each other. He has become quite polished at saying the right thing at the right time in rather a bland, vague way. Call it lying or self-protection, whatever you like. I always get the feeling he is mocking the interviewer. I would not be surprised if he has had a considerable amount of media training.

So, if he says it is a honour to be riding with Contador in the mountains, take it with a pinch of salt. It is a soundbite for the press to print and everything goes on without controversy.

A lot of what Wiggins says is a 'mickey take'.... the Brits on the board probably understand what I mean.
Most of what he says/means gets lost in translation if you're not familiar with his kind of humour.
I like him and it's not a jingoistic thing, he's been good on the track, good on the road and seems to actively take the **** in most interviews he does.... Sagan seems like a good laugh too.
Cycling needs more people like that and less of the sour puss Contadors of the world.

This wiggo as a ultra intelligent tactician who knows how to hide his emotions and play the press idea is romanticized bs that fails at every conceivable level.

Wiggins throws massive tantrums as the first response to any problem. he throws his bikes if they get a mechanical, he refused to give froome the stage win on peyresoudes, threatened to leave the tour over it and then refused to give him the gift. He tried to steal froomes leadership from him even after the thing had been agreed then went into a hole of depression when it failed. He insulted his ex team for no reason, purely to hurt them, bullied Landis cos he felt like it, defended lance weeks before he fell, made an incredibly offensive joke at a charity for sex abuse victims dinner, which turned many of his fans against him.

He gave a long speech about how cycling is rife with doping and needs more scepticism, then says anyone who is sceptical is a loser.

This to you is a rational chess master who plays the press like an instrument?

In fact the sky argument for a long time on these boards from fans has been that because Wiggins is such a wreck he cannot be trusted with doping even ergo must be clean.

But when it suits, fans seem to take the total.opposite defense. Suddenly Wiggins knows everything he is doing, it's all for fun. To defend Wiggins from the self evident fact that he went from someone who was unhappy at doping in cycling to a massively pro omerta force in the sport the second he magically turned Riis style into a gc candidate.

Curiously this defense never gets used for anyone else. Only Wiggins should be immune- to his fans, from having any meaning attached to what he says

 

[JimmyFingers]

Hitch your attitude towards Wiggins looks dangerously like an obsession. We get it, you don't like him.

But doping isn't about personality. Some very nice people dope, Wiggins may or may not be one of them (doper, not a nice person, as you amply illustrate pretty much every time you post here, even if the discussion has nothing to do with Wiggins.

No doubt I'll get a broadside for this but I will say you have lost all objectivity when it comes to Wiggins.

 

[Benotti69]

Hitch your attitude towards Wiggins looks dangerously like an obsession. We get it, you don't like him.

This is the Wiggins thread to discuss Wiggins.

But doping isn't about personality. Some very nice people dope, Wiggins may or may not be one of them (doper, not a nice person, as you amply illustrate pretty much every time you post here, even if the discussion has nothing to do with Wiggins.

Why do fans use Wiggins personality to defend him against opinions that he rose to TdF winner from the Gruppetto is due to doping?

Hitch is not having a go at Wiggins personality but mere illustrating the changes from Wiggins from a vociferous anti doping guy calling out riders to an 'omertaist' who loved Lance.

 

[deviant]

This wiggo as a ultra intelligent tactician who knows how to hide his emotions and play the press idea is romanticized bs that fails at every conceivable level.

Wiggins throws massive tantrums as the first response to any problem. he throws his bikes if they get a mechanical, he refused to give froome the stage win on peyresoudes, threatened to leave the tour over it and then refused to give him the gift. He tried to steal froomes leadership from him even after the thing had been agreed then went into a hole of depression when it failed. He insulted his ex team for no reason, purely to hurt them, bullied Landis cos he felt like it, defended lance weeks before he fell, made an incredibly offensive joke at a charity for sex abuse victims dinner, which turned many of his fans against him.

I dont think anybody thinks Wiggins is a master of mindgames, he is a pro sportsman afterall and most of them substitute their education at some point in order to pursue their sporting dream.

He seems to say what he thinks without considering the repurcusions....i would say that is the opposite of an intelligent man.

I like the fact he wears his heart on his sleeve, i like the ruthless spat with Froome....why would he want to give over leadership of the team without a fight?!
The bloke has character and for some fans that counts for a lot in a world of bland, sponsor friendly grey men.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Hitch is not having a go at Wiggins personality but mere illustrating the changes from Wiggins from a vociferous anti doping guy calling out riders to an 'omertaist' who loved Lance.

It's more than that - he's using changes in what Wiggo said over time as evidence of doping.

Even Wiggo's biggest fans seem accepting of the fact that he is inconsistent, sometimes unwise and more than occasionally offensive with his verbal offerings. Even his wife says that Wiggo the cyclist is a tw*t!

I don't subscribe to the master PR tactician theory about Wiggo. Some of his comments are made from anger, some from a desire to take the p*ss, others from resigned boredom and others from a desire to sell books/satisfy the 1-on-1 interviewer.

 

[RownhamHill]

bullied Landis cos he felt like it,

The Hitch, I know you don't like Wiggins and so on, but I'm interested in this bullying of Landis, as I've seen you mention this before, and what form did it actually take?

I've seen that quote where he says about how he 'knows people who Landis has been phoning up drunk, so you've got wonder about his credibility' (and in which he also goes on to say, 'but maybe that's all borne out of frustration, so you never know', though that bit doesn't often get quoted around here), but is there any other substance to his bullying? And didn't Landis publicly accuse Wiggins of cheating in 2009, before the quote above?

Don't want to particularly argue with you about this, as I know you're clear in your own view, I just want to check what the underlying evidence is!

 

[Netserk]

No doubt I'll get a broadside for this but I will say you have lost all objectivity when it comes to Wiggins.

So it won't be a problem for to to quote Hitch's post where it's completely without objectivity?

 

[Morbius]

Some of his comments are made from anger, some from a desire to take the p*ss, others from resigned boredom and others from a desire to sell books/satisfy the 1-on-1 interviewer.

and others because he is p1ssed. (UK definition).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So it won't be a problem for to to quote Hitch's post where it's completely without objectivity?

He already did. It was the post he quoted in his response.

Unless you wish to make a point that Hitchs post was indeed objective.

 

[Netserk]

He already did. It was the post he quoted in his response.

Unless you wish to make a point that Hitchs post was indeed objective.

Sarcasm??

He didn't quote anything in his post.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

and others because he is p1ssed. (UK definition).

Indeed. We mustn't forget that!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sarcasm??

He didn't quote anything in his post.

Jimmy quoted all the post - and in conclusion said "but I will say you have lost all objectivity when it comes to Wiggins."

Pretty simple stuff.

 

[SundayRider]

2009 after Paris-Nice. Wiggins targeted the time trial, thinking it was perfect for him as reigning Olympic champion. He was beaten by Contador and was literally crying about it. I think that is the point when he snapped and decided to do what everyone else was doing.

Yeah I agree, even though he was pretty poor in the Giro 2009 overall, his result in the final TT was unusual. Right up there at the end of a three week race.