Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[stutue]

Atta boy

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Obvious dopers are obvious.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Atta boy

Atta fanboy

 

[stutue]

Atta fanboy

How very juvenile.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How very juvenile.

How very ironic.

And very revisionist to skip Wiggo's breakout year on the road in your recap of how Wiggo developed on the road, innit? That 2009 is not something you can just wave your hands and make disappear, not matter how ridiculous it looks. Nice try though, I'll give you that!!

 

[stutue]

How very ironic.

I don't see any irony.

Perhaps you can explain why my comment was ironic.

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

2009 showed mysterious trainer / coach and riding for himself, ignoring the experienced team all year, eventually dropping the designated leader and finishing with the obvious dopers at the pointy end of the peloton.

The only (ever?) road stage focussed coaching he actually had prior to 2011 that I am aware of was with the Academy U23 squad over the 2008/2009 winter and with the Giro 'in race' teachings of his experienced team in how to actually take his first few tentative steps staying at the front of the race, rather than hanging at the back. Quite possibly this is where Sky got the idea in 2010 that all riders had to do to be fit was a) miles and b) race. Apart from that he appears to have had a field promotion to leader in the Tour after his designated leader had problems and the only surprise to me is that with probably inadequate physical preparation, a Giro in his legs and the first experience of that mental pressure he didn't immediately fold as he always had in the past (and as he did at least partially in 2010). I'm a fan but he's not a typical fighter.

But yes, he finished with the obvious dopers something that if he hadn't been capable of breaking Boardman's pursuit world record in 2008 without CB's aerodynamic advantages and at his physical peak might have seemed a little suspicious I admit.

It is amazing how two people see the same thing so differently.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The only (ever?) road stage focussed coaching he actually had prior to 2011 that I am aware of was with the Academy U23 squad over the 2008/2009 winter and with the Giro 'in race' teachings of his experienced team in how to actually take his first few tentative steps staying at the front of the race, rather than hanging at the back. Quite possibly this is where Sky got the idea in 2010 that all riders had to do to be fit was a) miles and b) race. Apart from that he appears to have had a field promotion to leader in the Tour after his designated leader had problems and the only surprise to me is that with probably inadequate physical preparation, a Giro in his legs and the first experience of that mental pressure he didn't immediately fold as he always had in the past (and as he did at least partially in 2010). I'm a fan but he's not a typical fighter.

But yes, he finished with the obvious dopers something that if he hadn't been capable of breaking Boardman's pursuit world record in 2008 without CB's aerodynamic advantages and at his physical peak might have seemed a little suspicious I admit.

It is amazing how two people see the same thing so differently.

If you have anything at all to back up your "in race" teaching from Garmin, I'd LOVE to see it. Given he had raced road for almost a decade, including 2 x years dedicated to the road, his lack of results were incredibly telling.

What's amazing is how rose coloured some people's glasses are.

And did you miss JV saying Ellingsworth coached Wiggo in 2009 - for the Tour? When he in fact didn't at all?

 

[SundayRider]

If you have anything at all to back up your "in race" teaching from Garmin, I'd LOVE to see it. Given he had raced road for almost a decade, including 2 x years dedicated to the road, his lack of results were incredibly telling.

What's amazing is how rose coloured some people's glasses are.

And did you miss JV saying Ellingsworth coached Wiggo in 2009 - for the Tour? When he in fact didn't at all?

This. He was a seasoned pro in 2009 not a neo-pro. His average finishing place in a grand tour up until that point was 112th. Before the '09 Tour he had never even finished inside the top 50 on GC. Of course this means nothing though, he just trained a bit harder, gave up bread and learnt to ride at the front of the peleton.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

 

[SundayRider]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

So Jimmy you really think that his 2009 performance and those that followed are legit?You don't think that if he had the potential to do what he has done clean then all those thousands upon thousands of miles of training (pre-2009) would not have offered us even a glimpse of GC winning potential? Being up there on a big mountain stage? Even a top 30/20 GC finish?

 

[gillan1969]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

eh...jimmy its pro cycling...its as though Armstrong, vino, ullrich, landis big mig, riis, rasmussen...shall I continue?....never existed

wiggins and froome do not start at ground zero...they continue a scene dominated by PEDs, indded where thay are a way of life...anyone following pro cycling can only have turd coloured glasses

to have anything other would be mental...or you could be aged 5-7?

 

[Benotti69]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

trouble finding a microfibre cloth Jimbo?

 

[The Hitch]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

Namely wiggos, after the three years he spent up pharmstrongs you know what. No wonder he's had such trouble with bike handling since then.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It's also amazing how turd-coloured some people's glasses are

bvtthurt much

 

[oldcrank]

The only (ever?) road stage focussed coaching he actually had prior to 2011 that I am aware of was with the Academy U23 squad over the 2008/2009 winter and with the Giro 'in race' teachings of his experienced team in how to actually take his first few tentative steps staying at the front of the race, rather than hanging at the back. Quite possibly this is where Sky got the idea in 2010 that all riders had to do to be fit was a) miles and b) race. Apart from that he appears to have had a field promotion to leader in the Tour after his designated leader had problems and the only surprise to me is that with probably inadequate physical preparation, a Giro in his legs and the first experience of that mental pressure he didn't immediately fold as he always had in the past (and as he did at least partially in 2010). I'm a fan but he's not a typical fighter.

But yes, he finished with the obvious dopers something that if he hadn't been capable of breaking Boardman's pursuit world record in 2008 without CB's aerodynamic advantages and at his physical peak might have seemed a little suspicious I admit.

It is amazing how two people see the same thing so differently.

While it is certainly correct, my friend, that
Sir Bradley Marc Wiggins CBE did not break
the World Record in the individual pursuit
held by Mr. Christopher Miles Boardman MBE,
I am not so sure it is correct to say that
'he hadn't been capable of breaking' that
record. If the Team Pursuit had not been
starting the day after the Individual Pursuit
at the 2008 Olympics, and indeed if Wiggo
had been concentrating only on the IP and
not the IP, the TP and the Madison, we
might have seen Boardman's record fall.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

While it is certainly correct, my friend, that
Sir Bradley Marc Wiggins CBE did not break
the World Record in the individual pursuit
held by Mr. Christopher Miles Boardman MBE,
I am not so sure it is correct to say that
'he hadn't been capable of breaking' that
record. If the Team Pursuit had not been
starting the day after the Individual Pursuit
at the 2008 Olympics, and indeed if Wiggo
had been concentrating only on the IP and
not the IP, the TP and the Madison, we
might have seen Boardman's record fall.

you're misunderstanding her.

 

[oldcrank]

you're misunderstanding her.

That may very well be the case, my friend.

 

[oldcrank]

you're misunderstanding her.

I believe you are correct, my friend.
Upon rereading Wiggo Warrior's post
it seems we both agree that Wiggo
was indeed capable of breaking the
individual pursuit record even with out
the aerodynamic advantages that
Boardman's position afforded.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I believe you are correct, my friend.
Upon rereading Wiggo Warrior's post
it seems we both agree that Wiggo
was indeed capable of breaking the
individual pursuit record even with out
the aerodynamic advantages that
Boardman's position afforded.

It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Sir Brad, but if memory serves, he was 4 seconds off Boardman's world record, which is a country mile in IP terms. 4s out of 255s is approx 1.5%, so he'd need to find a further 5% of power (assuming no aero gains). That is a big improvement for someone already on top of his game.

As an aside, if memory serves, in 1996, Boardman's IP record was faster than the GB team pursuit record. If not, it was very close.

 

[oldcrank]

It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Sir Brad, but if memory serves, he was 4 seconds off Boardman's world record, which is a country mile in IP terms. 4s out of 255s is approx 1.5%, so he'd need to find a further 5% of power (assuming no aero gains). That is a big improvement for someone already on top of his game.

As an aside, if memory serves, in 1996, Boardman's IP record was faster than the GB team pursuit record. If not, it was very close.

Yes, my friend, Brad did not approach Chris' time in
competition. I believe, though, that it is accepted
that Wiggo only did enough to win the individual
pursuit as there were still three rounds of team
pursuit (he actually only rode two though) and
the Madison still to come.

Experts like Dear Wiggo who have made a study of
all that has been said or written by or about Brad
may be able to provide a link to comments that
might refer to the belief that he may have been
capable of eclipsing Chris' record, or indeed even
did so in training.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

i look forward to jack bobridges utter 6 month domination of stage racing based on the irrefutable theory of IP superiority = big engine = total road domination, as long as you believe in yourself and are motivated.

or something.

 

[The Hitch]

But yes, he finished with the obvious dopers something that if he hadn't been capable of breaking Boardman's pursuit world record in 2008 without CB's aerodynamic advantages and at his physical peak might have seemed a little suspicious I admit.

It is amazing how two people see the same thing so differently.

Oh boy.

So the best of the best of the best in cycling's most popular discipline, who have been practicing climbing for decades, and dedicated their careers to that discipline are surpassed by a rider on allegedly his first serious attempt at the discipline, who has not spent any real time learning it, and this makes sence because he won in a tiny by comparison and largely unrelated discipline?

Its like saying the Badminton World Champion should destroy the entire world top 4 in tennis.

I'd be a little suspicious if he had only won silver in the olympics but since he won gold its totally understandable that he'll do the grand slam next year.

 

[red_flanders]

...he'd need to find a further 5% of power (assuming no aero gains). That is a big improvement for someone already on top of his game.

This should be cut and paste every time someone starts talking about the various transformations we see in cycling.

 

[Benotti69]

i look forward to jack bobridges utter 6 month domination of stage racing based on the irrefutable theory of IP superiority = big engine = total road domination, as long as you believe in yourself and are motivated.

or something.

Bobridge won't be able to do it till he listens to hours and hours of mod music, grows some side burns and gets a serious attitude problem, then GT success is his for the taking