Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Franklin]

Not the ammount of fat he's been losing it wouldn't.

Hitch, can you of all people finally point out how much wieght he has been losing??? I have been asking for a reliable source for a week and nobody can come up with one.

That said, even if he lost weight, that was almost certainly mostly muscle (and thus indeed somewhat risky).

 

[Afrank]

Then you'd be mistaken, Afrank.

Its all down to the intensity of 'the ride'. As long as he kept it down to about 50% MHR he'd have been fine.

Also, for the non-competitive / non-cyclists amongst you (ie. Most of you) your muscles become more efficient the more you train. I've gone round a hilly 200k course at an average speed of 35kph with nothing to eat in the recent past. If I tried that now I'd bonk after 80k.

If he was wanting to lose fat then a long low intensity ride would do it.

Unless he's doing all those 7+ hours at a heart rate below 100, he'll still be burning lots of calories. And if he's refusing to eat before or during those 7 hours he's essentially putting his body into starvation mode.

Not eating before is important in this too. Don't forget that it's called break-fast. Your body has been fasting for 8 or so hours while asleep. So you need that food to get your metabolism going efficiently and to fuel yourself for the rest of the day.

Even if he is doing all those hours at a very low intensity (which can be hard to do if there's any hills in the ride or strong headwinds as well), no matter which way you spin it, it's an unhealthy and stupid way to train.
I for one, am a competitive cyclist that races by the way.

 

[stutue]

Not the ammount of fat he's been losing it wouldn't.

We both know that you don't know how much fat he's lost

 

[DirtyWorks]

We both know that you don't know how much fat he's lost

Another failed demand for "evidence." The number is moot.

75+ years of international bike racing and only now are some riders able to go to new extreme low-weights maintaining field dominating power for time periods that have never been seen before.

Seems legit.

 

[stutue]

If you make assertions you need to back them up with evidence (not proof)

Otherwise its just random supposition...

 

[armchairclimber]

It's not totally outrageous, if you are carrying a little extra fat (which Wiggo clearly was around PR) to lose 3 to 5lbs per week for 2-3 weeks. Long fully aerobic sessions would achieve that if calorie intake was low. This can be done without losing too much muscle and dramatically improves W/Kg ratio.

It's not a regime you'd want to carry on for much longer but you wouldn't need to once you get to a weight you can maintain.

It's not a clear indication of doping.

 

[Franklin]

Even if he is doing all those hours at a very low intensity (which can be hard to do if there's any hills in the ride or strong headwinds as well), no matter which way you spin it, it's an unhealthy and stupid way to train.
I for one, am a competitive cyclist that races by the way.

For example Adrie van Diemen doesn't think it's stupid, he incorporates these into his schemes. And not solely at the extreme low intensities! So you might think it's stupid, swell known and well respected trainers are disagreeing with you on this one.

On Wiggo's weight: The extra weight at Paris Roubaix is definitely not factual. All we have is Wiggo's word. Now we know he's pretty much random buzz on training, so why all of a sudden he gives the right numbers on a key factor is beyond me.

Than we have the pictures. I have already shown that judging a cyclists weight from a picture is neigh impossible by using Ulrich. Depending on the picture he looks like the Michelin Man or like a Sky rider in TdF shape. And that was within 24 hour. Now you guys are telling me with a straight face you can see a change of 2kg (which is a guess!) by eyeballing a picture?

If we are going to scream shehanigans about Wiggo's weight we need some hard data, otherwise it's just supposition.

And DW, I assume you can show these numbers as they are all pretty verifiable?

new extreme low-weights maintaining field dominating power for time periods that have never been seen before.

So far two riders of the same team won two GT's and had a great build up. I have seen more domination than that and the most crushing of that variety was actually pre-epo.

I'm not saying I trust Sky or Wiggins, indeed far from it. I have been hammering on DB for ages and have been pointing out idiocy in Wiggo's statements. Heck, I pointed out how important Leinders was with Rabo and how good he actually was (as he is still being downplayed in succesrate). I have all the reasons to be extremely sceptical of it all.

But that does not mean we can just push reason overboard and connect everything with doping withoiut even a tenuous link. Doper or not, a hunger training is not that weird.

 

[red_flanders]

Unless he's doing all those 7+ hours at a heart rate below 100, he'll still be burning lots of calories. And if he's refusing to eat before or during those 7 hours he's essentially putting his body into starvation mode.

Not eating before is important in this too. Don't forget that it's called break-fast. Your body has been fasting for 8 or so hours while asleep. So you need that food to get your metabolism going efficiently and to fuel yourself for the rest of the day.

Even if he is doing all those hours at a very low intensity (which can be hard to do if there's any hills in the ride or strong headwinds as well), no matter which way you spin it, it's an unhealthy and stupid way to train.
I for one, am a competitive cyclist that races by the way.

I think it's just simpler to conclude that the athlete is misrepresenting what he's doing. The tweet was a defense against doping allegations. Allegations which crop up because of the very unusual weight fluctuations which have previously rested I power loss and inconsistency.

 

[Franklin]

the very unusual weight fluctuations

I'm ready to say Wiggins is 99% certainly a doper for several reasons. but I am just laughing about the claim of severe weight flucuations. The guy has been a stick for years. I would personally be very surprised if he isn't one of the most consistent weighing pro's around. This is all a red herring.

 

[thehog]

Expect to see Fred's all over the road this weekend and lying in the bushes. Got to follow Wiggo's diet.

 

[DirtyWorks]

you wouldn't need to once you get to a weight you can maintain.

#1 Historically, riders haven't gotten *that* thin for months at a time.
#2 Historically, riders who have dropped some weight in the middle of a season, have a brief peak, then fall apart somehow. (injury, sickness, lack of power, something)
#3 A rider on "pan y agua" will not drop that much weight and somehow keep it off, somehow have incredible power for months.

Again, somehow Sky has been able to defeat 75+ years of competitive cycling performances. I don't know how, but we'll eventually find out.

And, I think in this particular case, Wiggo is telling a story. Unfortunately, some will believe it to be a legitimate method.

 

[stutue]

He might be doping, no mistake, but what he says about long training rides to burn fat not muscle is correct.

Not so sure about your dodgy claims as to 'historical' fact. You can't provide any evidence to back up that assertion because there are no records dating back 75 +years. So its just hot air.

I'm with you on the suspicions of possible pharmacological aids to weight loss...but I can't supply evidence. A suspicion is just a suspicion.

 

[red_flanders]

I'm ready to say Wiggins is 99% certainly a doper for several reasons. but I am just laughing about the claim of severe weight flucuations. The guy has been a stick for years. I would personally be very surprised if he isn't one of the most consistent weighing pro's around. This is all a red herring.

Despite seeing him clearly much heavier at Roubaix, and his own statements on gaining and losing weight. Gotcha.

 

[armchairclimber]

But he's just not "that" thin. Nowhere near as skinny as Froome. He certainly looked to be carrying a little "adipose" tissue around PR but he just looked lean and fit for TOC.
Sky as a team though have not been without their health issues this Spring, which may, or may not be a result of over-training and losing too much weight. Some seriously off form riders this Spring: Kiryienka anyone? Porte?

 

[zigmeister]

I disagree, due to his age, he has a few more pounds on let's say, J. Dombrowski. Who is a good reference for Froome/Wiggo, particularly Wiggans since Joe is 6'3". Wiggo is supposed to be the same height.

So, looking at those guys, Joe is about the same weight/maybe looks wider in the torso..but arms/legs..well...yeah. Their arms/legs are pretty close. Joe before sky was listed just slightly below what Wiggo supposedly is on weight.

Just saying, TOC when you see them next to each other, somewhat of a physical reference to use.

Here is a photo of both. Now, Wiggo looks a little thinner lately. Joe is listed at 150/6.8kg. But you know how Sky has been on starvation diets, could be 1kg lighter or maybe even less with Euro training.

Joe 3rd left, Wiggo 2nd right.

Joe looking 140lbs here...at 6'3" I would say google some photos of these two since their frames are pretty close.

 

[doperhopper]

#1 Historically, riders haven't gotten *that* thin for months at a time.
#2 Historically, riders who have dropped some weight in the middle of a season, have a brief peak, then fall apart somehow. (injury, sickness, lack of power, something)
#3 A rider on "pan y agua" will not drop that much weight and somehow keep it off, somehow have incredible power for months.

Again, somehow Sky has been able to defeat 75+ years of competitive cycling performances. I don't know how, but we'll eventually find out.

And, I think in this particular case, Wiggo is telling a story. Unfortunately, some will believe it to be a legitimate method.

on the other hand, Vroomie's loudly spoken statements that he won't be stripped off his titles in 10+ years is a hint about something new (not yeat banned) or at least undetectable (of course UCI collaboration helps in any case), moreover in a way it won't be detected later (some kind of degrading?)

 

[Granville57]

(some kind of degrading?)

I'll give you that.

 

[RownhamHill]

This kind of redirected summary is dishonest.

It's fine to have a difference of opinion, but you pollute the topic with posts like this.

Ignored.

Golly. Polluting the thread no less.

Not quite sure what was dishonest about what was intended as a wry observation, but in any case, I'll consider myself 'told'.

 

[Afrank]

I think it's just simpler to conclude that the athlete is misrepresenting what he's doing. The tweet was a defense against doping allegations. Allegations which crop up because of the very unusual weight fluctuations which have previously rested I power loss and inconsistency.

Agree to that, which is why I originally called BS on what he is saying here.

 

[Afrank]

For example Adrie van Diemen doesn't think it's stupid, he incorporates these into his schemes. And not solely at the extreme low intensities! So you might think it's stupid, swell known and well respected trainers are disagreeing with you on this one.

Never heard of him. Riding before eating anything and not eating anything during can be an effective method for weight loss. But I don't think it's going to be that effective in such long duration's of riding. From things I've read this method should be used with short duration's of riding (like the duration of a commute for example).

And seriously, what's the point? You can lose weight without sacrificing muscle easily with eating before a ride and during. Just got to eat the right foods. Weight loss isn't about starving yourself. Maybe you won't lose weight quite as fast, but 2 lbs a week should be the maximum anyways for safe weight loss.

 

[Ripper]

Never heard of him. Riding before eating anything and not eating anything during can be an effective method for weight loss. But I don't think it's going to be that effective in such long duration's of riding. From things I've read this method should be used with short duration's of riding (like the duration of a commute for example).

And seriously, what's the point? You can lose weight without sacrificing muscle easily with eating before a ride and during. Just got to eat the right foods. Weight loss isn't about starving yourself. Maybe you won't lose weight quite as fast, but 2 lbs a week should be the maximum anyways for safe weight loss.

Wiggo's full of shyte regardless.

 

[Benotti69]

Wiggo's full of shyte regardless.

And those who in the sport like Wiggins who spout shyte to explain these amazing performances have always been doping.

 

[Franklin]

Despite seeing him clearly much heavier at Roubaix, and his own statements on gaining and losing weight. Gotcha.

1. I have convincingly proven that you can't judge a cyclists weight. Everyone thought a guy named Ulrich was fat as lard. Yet a few hours later on the podium he was actually thin as a stick. Same day. Yet you claim you can judge a 2kg weightloss? Even though Wiggo was wearing long sleeves and a beard?

2. I have just as convincingly pointed out that Wiggins generally talks rubbish about these things. Indeed his true weight would really make things easier considering his wattages. Besides, pro-cyclists so far always haven been shy about their weights (for aforementioned reason). Yet in this instace we take Wiggins word?

Gotcha indeed.

 

[stutue]

And those who in the sport like Wiggins who spout shyte to explain these amazing performances have always been doping.

Im beginning to build up a mental picture of you. Something like this....

(The third guy)


http://youtu.be/D8WmvMCTW_g

 

[red_flanders]

1. I have convincingly proven that you can't judge a cyclists weight. Everyone thought a guy named Ulrich was fat as lard. Yet a few hours later on the podium he was actually thin as a stick. Same day. Yet you claim you can judge a 2kg weightloss? Even though Wiggo was wearing long sleeves and a beard?

2. I have just as convincingly pointed out that Wiggins generally talks rubbish about these things. Indeed his true weight would really make things easier considering his wattages. Besides, pro-cyclists so far always haven been shy about their weights (for aforementioned reason). Yet in this instace we take Wiggins word?

Gotcha indeed.

I wouldn't be so confident using the word "convincingly" when it's demonstrably not the case. You may be convinced. That doesn't mean anyone else is.