Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Mellow Velo]

So we'll have to get the The American Office of Weights and Measures to measure him daily as whoever says anything about his weight is just BS and not credible.

So if Wiggins hasn't lost 5KG, what do you attribute his return to 2012 Tour form??

Again LOL.
Finishing 9th and losing time to a bunch of riders given
possibly their only GC shot of the season is a return to
2012 Tour form?

Yet another example of exaggeration being used as the stick to
beat on Sky.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So you took Wiggin's anti doping stance as bollix? Do you place any credit on what Wiggins says? How do you judge Wiggins by his actions alone?

First question - I actually took as a very emotional reaction from an angry guy who'd just been frog-marched out of the Tour by the rozzers for someone else's offence. It was understandable but essentially b*llocks as the "1%" thing would never stand up in court, so there was no chance of it being implemented.

Second question - Not about cycling in general. He's too inconsistent and is most likely just winding people up as he's bored or p*ssed off or even just p*ssed. Some of what he says will be genuine, but it's impossible to spot these bits from the general "noise".

Third question - I don't really judge Wiggo as a person such. His wife seems fiercely loyal and he appears to be a good father, which are good signs as far as I'm concerned. He also has a pleasingly quirky sense of humour. I have my suspicions about doping given his much documented transformation, but he's still my favourite rider. I have to be honest and say that I loved his "Bone idle w*nkers" comment and the outrage it generated. Not sure why, but there you go.

Judging him as a cyclist is pretty easy - I just look at the results, how they were achieved and draw my conclusions.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I asked a similar question, yesterday.
Nobody was prepared to commit to a figure
and the hog went for the often used, just plain silly response.

I'll stick my neck out and say 2-3kg since PR on top of 3-4kg since the end of last season, leaving him about 2-3kg over Tour 2012 weight. The "last 2kg" is notoriously hard to shift, though.

Based on personal experience of weightloss when training hard when already pretty skinny, anecdotal comments about how much he'd put on by the end of last season and unscientific analysis of pictures of him from July 2012, Sept 2013 and this season.

Don't anyone bet their mortgage on this, though!

 

[JimmyFingers]

So we'll have to get the The American Office of Weights and Measures to measure him daily as whoever says anything about his weight is just BS and not credible.

So if Wiggins hasn't lost 5KG, what do you attribute his return to 2012 Tour form??

Well you need more than a commentators aside to base your argument on, aurely. Oh wait we're in the clinic, no do carry on. Pure speculation is worshipped here.

Return to 2012 form, hmmm. So was his form poor last year, of did he get a case of the yips on the descents in the Giro and then an injury? He got second in the ITT WCs right? I'd say it's difficult to properly gauge his form last year, because of mental fragility and injury.

Performance for me isn't proof. You assume he's doping so look for ways he is doing it. Half the time it's EPO, half the time its drugs to aid weight loss. I don't make that assumption, so I look for other reasons, one being you can trace clear fluctuations in his form over the years, and I think much of that is motivation. He didn't look motivated last year, not in Trentino or the Giro, but he was motivated for the WCs, and the ToB. Sport is far more that just physical prowess, mental attitude and fortitude and sheer hunger play huge parts, not that people that wantonly accuse cyclists of doping are interested. They are only interested into reducing the riders to a series of numbers: speed, weight, power output. and ignoring any other variables.

 

[deeno1975]

Again LOL.
Finishing 9th and losing time to a bunch of riders given
possibly their only GC shot of the season is a return to
2012 Tour form?

Yet another example of exaggeration being used as the stick to
beat on Sky.

Or when was the last time you saw Wiggins sitting at the front and driving a splitting peloton of an 18km climb for final 6+ km... Did you even see the race?? Even the British commentators couldn't get over how well he was climbing...

TTing fair enough, but climbing like that, yeah right!

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Or when was the last time you saw Wiggins sitting at the front and driving a splitting peloton of an 18km climb for final 6+ km... Did you even see the race?? Even the British commentators couldn't get over how well he was climbing...

TTing fair enough, but climbing like that, yeah right!

It was good but not exactly pulling up trees by Wiggo. He stopped any attacks until the last half k, but there were still a good number of riders with him, not all of whom ride for top tier teams. In the 2012 Tour, the Sky Train dealt with better opposition overall and fended off all meaningful attacks.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Or when was the last time you saw Wiggins sitting at the front and driving a splitting peloton of an 18km climb for final 6+ km... Did you even see the race?? Even the British commentators couldn't get over how well he was climbing...

TTing fair enough, but climbing like that, yeah right!

And faded in the last 500m and allowed a key GC rival to gain time on him.

Sorry I forgot Wiggins simply isn't allowed to ride well in any meaningful way. Unless he's riding badly, which is also indicative of him doping.

 

[deeno1975]

And faded in the last 500m and allowed a key GC rival to gain time on him.

Sorry I forgot Wiggins simply isn't allowed to ride well in any meaningful way. Unless he's riding badly, which is also indicative of him doping.

Not at all, but TTing like a motor bike on a flat course and then burning it up a difficult climb. The first I understand but the second = doubts.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Not at all, but TTing like a motor bike on a flat course and then burning it up a difficult climb. The first I understand but the second = doubts.

Given his TT form, his current build, the past relationship between his TT performance, build and clmbing, why are you surprised at his current climbing ability?

It would have been a bigger surprise if he'd not being going well uphill against yesterday's opposition given his TT form and skinny appearance.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Or when was the last time you saw Wiggins sitting at the front and driving a splitting peloton of an 18km climb for final 6+ km... Did you even see the race?? Even the British commentators couldn't get over how well he was climbing...

TTing fair enough, but climbing like that, yeah right!

Giro delle Trentino.
3 weeks ago.
Because I see every race.
(Like now with the Giro)

You keep quoting the commentators, but conveniently miss out that they also talked a lot about Wiggins having a weak team, did they not?
They also said about Wiggins having to pull on the front, because of this, did they not?
They also said nobody would attack him, until within the final 3kms, did they not?

The point is, he is a tempo diesel. Doesn't like changes of pace, doesn't have a real kick or riding out of the saddle.
In 2012 TDF form, this lesser line up would have been left for dust.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I'll stick my neck out and say 2-3kg since PR on top of 3-4kg since the end of last season, leaving him about 2-3kg over Tour 2012 weight. The "last 2kg" is notoriously hard to shift, though.

Based on personal experience of weightloss when training hard when already pretty skinny, anecdotal comments about how much he'd put on by the end of last season and unscientific analysis of pictures of him from July 2012, Sept 2013 and this season.

Don't anyone bet their mortgage on this, though!

I was thinking along those lines. A couple of kilo should be quite possible
and I reckon he's still a kilo or two off 2012 weight.
Which is what yesterday's climb suggested.

 

[zalacain]

It would have been a bigger surprise if he'd not being going well uphill against yesterday's opposition given his TT form and skinny appearance.

Not forgetting that wonderful tattoo to cover up any "skin blemishes"

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Not forgetting that wonderful tattoo to cover up any "skin blemishes"

Don't quite follow this...

If tattoos are indicative of something dodgy, then wouldn't the 2012 tattoos still have been around in 2013 when he was cr*p?

And if the tattoo was indeed to hide skin blemishes associated with dodgy behaviour (I thought that's what black socks were for actually) then surely the 2012 ones could be re-used? Or are 2014 doping practices subtly different from 2012's so needles need to be applied in different places?

 

[red_flanders]

Not forgetting that wonderful tattoo to cover up any "skin blemishes"

Reminiscent of Postal's black socks, eh?

 

[Franklin]

It wasn't pictures it was the Eurosport commentators who said it as a statement of fact. Presume they didn't just make it up and that they have a source for their information, otherwise they would loose credibility.

I'm resting my case.

 

[Franklin]

Ah so Wiggins is lying when he says he gained weight then is back to his 2012 weight.

Gotcha.

How silly to believe anything he says.

Unless he's saying he doesn't dope.

No DW, this is exactly the point: You think he's a flat out liar about doping. That's why you took the nickname. You think he's scum.

So if he talks about doping: Liar.
If he talks about weight: The truth.

Your attempt here falls flat on it's face as this is eactly why we can't take his claims about his weight for truth. Because there's a rather big chance he's indeed a liar.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Not forgetting that wonderful tattoo to cover up any "skin blemishes"

Do you have a tattoo of any decent size? Because what you are saying is bordering on the moronic, just wondering if you have any concept of what goes into getting a tattoo of that nature.

 

[Franklin]

Wiggins is a grown intelligent man who knows what he is saying, not a 5year old nor a special needs case.

Considering what he says about training he either is clueless or indeed does not tell the truth even about simple things.

Nobody trains by climbing the Pico del Teide 100 times. That's just *** and indeed medival training methods. Yet he said it... why? I assume it was because it was the perfect heroic story in the newspaper.

And that's just one of the many times I know the guy is just saying nonsense. I tale everything what he says for just another usless soundbite. He's extremely secretive about his real training methods and that makes me also cnvinced what he says about his weight is just as sketchy.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Presumably all the others are cover up the various medical performances he's had to turn him into the uber-athlete that is currently 'dominating' the Tour of California

 

[stutue]

Apparently he only had kids and called them Ben and Isabella so that the tattoo he'd already had, to cover needle marks, would make sense.

 

[The Hitch]

No DW, this is exactly the point: You think he's a flat out liar about doping. That's why you took the nickname. You think he's scum.

So if he talks about doping: Liar.
If he talks about weight: The truth.

Your attempt here falls flat on it's face as this is eactly why we can't take his claims about his weight for truth. Because there's a rather big chance he's indeed a liar.

Well if he is lying about his weight then that is very suspicious as well.

Some people (not necessarily you) on here, act as if telling the truth is some near impossible task and that clinicians are being unreasonable if they expect a clean athlete to follow that.

Its not. You are an athlete who underwent one of the most incredible overnight transformations in the history of sport, that far outweigh most transformations that have been proven to have been 100% doping assisted. You won the TDF, and every other race you competed in, the year you had a doping (now banned) doctor on your staff (lets leave aside for a sec the fact that wiggins had earlier claimed having a doping doctor should result in being thrown off the Tour de France). You have a history of defending dopers and taking their side, against those who fight for clean sport. You had one of the most successful years ever, in a sport that has been monopolized by intense doping for 2 and a half decades.

If you are clean, you damn well should be telling the truth, on every single thing. This isn't some conti rider no one heard of, its the team which claims to have done what many consider impossible, ride faster than the fastest dopers ever, while clean, and not just once, but on a daily basis, day after day after day, with no exhaustion.

Instead, sky fans act like its totally normal for sky to contradict themselves on so many things. Oh, how is Chris Froome supposed to know that if Bilharzia stopped him from winning gts, he can't have had it while competing for the GC in the Tour de France. Pfff, why should Wiggins know his own weight. Why does it matter that he defends dopers.

Wiggins and Froome have both explicitly claimed they are proof of clean cycling and Brailsford has said similar things. When they say that and then they are constantly caught totally disregarding or ignoring facts, contradicting themselves, saying outright lies that allegedly on each occasion were accidental mistakes that strikes right at their heart of their story and their alleged commitment to clean cycling, which is clearly false.

And any such contradictions or lies are strongly suggestive of doping because the story is so thin to begin with, when one begins to find holes everywhere, its so unstable it relies entirely on nationalistic sentiment and heavy media backing, to support itself.

 

[stutue]

You are an athlete who underwent one of the most incredible overnight transformations in the history of sport

Hi

Can you please say which exact night this "incredible overnight transformation" took place, please.

Ta.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It was understandable but essentially b*llocks as the "1%" thing would never stand up in court, so there was no chance of it being implemented.

Ugh. When will you people get off this "won't stand up in court" drivel? It's completely and utterly irrelevant in the clinic and when someone says something similar in the newspaper.

It's like a crutch you use to support some position, thinking it actually holds water. Utter rubbish.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It was good but not exactly pulling up trees by Wiggo. He stopped any attacks until the last half k, but there were still a good number of riders with him, not all of whom ride for top tier teams. In the 2012 Tour, the Sky Train dealt with better opposition overall and fended off all meaningful attacks.

Yeah so Wiggo almost single handedly rode like a team of Sky riders.

Seems legit.

 

[Avoriaz]

Not at all, but TTing like a motor bike on a flat course and then burning it up a difficult climb. The first I understand but the second = doubts.

Do you think the climb was really that difficult? Sure it ramped up in the last km (where Wiggins, incidentally, lost time), but for the most part was a long steady gradient. I would say that kind of climb suits the tempo riding of a diesel motor like Wiggins.