Wiggins Discussion thread.

[webvan]

Could Wiggins have won the Tour this year? Was climbing well in the ToC beforehand, albeit against 2nd tier climbers, without much support. He smashed the TT there too. Proved he can handle the cobbles too. Wonder if Brailsford regrets not taking him.

Doubt it given the way he swings. There's no reason to think that a well prepared Wiggins couldn't have fought it out with Nibali like in...2012 where Nibali never came close to threatening him for the top spot.

Actually the GT organizers are those to blame with their ITT neutered races, the norm should really be to have two ITTs like in 2012, then it wouldn't be a climber's only event. Heck in the 70s and 80s when Merckx and Hinault were racing they generally had 4 ITTs, even in 1989 TDF there were 3 ITTs, an 8km prologue and 1 TTT and we know how spectacular that TDF was, even without the last ITT on the Champs-Elysées.

 

[roundabout]

So, was Wiggins well prepared for the Worlds?

He needed Lopez to bail him out on the Tumble just 2 weeks before and that's not Hautacam.

 

[elfed68]

Doubt it given the way he swings. There's no reason to think that a well prepared Wiggins couldn't have fought it out with Nibali like in...2012 where Nibali never came close to threatening him for the top spot.

Actually the GT organizers are those to blame with their ITT neutered races, the norm should really be to have two ITTs like in 2012, then it wouldn't be a climber's only event. Heck in the 70s and 80s when Merckx and Hinault were racing they generally had 4 ITTs, even in 1989 TDF there were 3 ITTs, an 8km prologue and 1 TTT and we know how spectacular that TDF was, even without the last ITT on the Champs-Elysées.

Who knows how many TdFs Wiggins would have won in those glory years with all the greats.

 

[GThere2]

Who knows how many TdFs Wiggins would have won in those glory years with all the greats.

Hazarding a guess, none
To me Wiggins strength is his chameleon-like ability to change his form to suit the target, GC(climbing), track, TT etc made possible by modern training techniques - eg maximising strength/weight, aerodynamics, nutrition.

Back in the 'classic' days riders were more predefined, bird-like climber (eg millar) or bigger allrounder - hinault,indurain etc. As for aerodynamics -I remember how revolutionary Lemonds tribars seemed - and look how he bobbed around on them!

Don't think back then a rider like Wiggins could have tuned sufficiently to get the success he's had now

 

[webvan]

Who knows how many TdFs Wiggins would have won in those glory years with all the greats.

Quite a few certainly, on the other hand he was fortunate not to be around in the mid-90s.. so like he said the other day about being snubbed for both the TDF and the Vuelta, "it was what it was". At the end of the day with his stellar "palmarès" on and off the road, it doesn't really matter whether he won one or several TDFs. On the other hand, cycling fans were short changed by DB and Team Cound biut bad karma came their way and it may dog (pun intended) them in the future...

 

[MellowJohnny]

So, was Wiggins well prepared for the Worlds?

He needed Lopez to bail him out on the Tumble just 2 weeks before and that's not Hautacam.

Exactly, Wiggins cannot climb with the best, even in the Tour of Britain.

He needed a time trial heavy tour to win in 2012 of which there was 2 long ones, plus the prologue.

 

[elfed68]

Exactly, Wiggins cannot climb with the best, even in the Tour of Britain.

He needed a time trial heavy tour to win in 2012 of which there was 2 long ones, plus the prologue.

The TdF has swung towards the climbers skills with less ITT miles.

If Wiggins and Robert Millar swapped over they both would probably have a hatful of wins.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Exactly, Wiggins cannot climb with the best, even in the Tour of Britain.

He needed a time trial heavy tour to win in 2012 of which there was 2 long ones, plus the prologue.

What about TdF 2009? Vuelta 2011?

 

[Jspear]

What about TdF 2009? Vuelta 2011?

He didn't quite climb with the best. I think Wiggins in his top climbing form is still under the "best" climbers.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Exactly, Wiggins cannot climb with the best, even in the Tour of Britain.

He needed a time trial heavy tour to win in 2012 of which there was 2 long ones, plus the prologue.

He's not a top climber by any means, but even in his tour win he lost no time to any rival in the mountains including Nibali.

 

[MellowJohnny]

What about TdF 2009? Vuelta 2011?

The TdF 09 he minimised his loses on the climbs against Contador, Schleck and Armstrong and had Vande Velde there for close support. No doubt it was a breakthrough year, but he was no where near to winning it and a 40 year old Armstrong beat him.

The Vuelta 11 - Froome was held back for Wiggins sake in the first 2 weeks, I actually think Froome may have beaten Wiggins in the TT over there (but I'm not sure). Again it was a good performance by Wiggins but he never was the dominant rider.

 

[MellowJohnny]

He's not a top climber by any means, but even in his tour win he lost no time to any rival in the mountains including Nibali.

He certainly did not, but he had Rogers, Porte and Froome (3 of the best climbers that year) - setting a high wattage up the climbs for Wiggins to follow. That's what they trained for over in Mallorca. They were almost team time trialing up those climbs that year.

I bet Dave Brailsford was glad Contador wasn't there to attack that tactic.

Van Den Broeck, Nibali et al could sometimes hold onto that train going up that hill at times, Bare in mind most of the GC contenders had minimal support up those climbs and TVG was held back to support Evans.

Nibali attacked on the descents but a fresh Wiggins was always able to chase him down.

 

[GThere2]

He certainly did not, but he had Rogers, Porte and Froome (3 of the best climbers that year) - setting a high wattage up the climbs for Wiggins to follow. That's what they trained for over in Mallorca. They were almost team time trialing up those climbs that year.

I bet Dave Brailsford was glad Contador wasn't there to attack that tactic.

Van Den Broeck, Nibali et al could sometimes hold onto that train going up that hill at times, Bare in mind most of the GC contenders had minimal support up those climbs and TVG was held back to support Evans.

Nibali attacked on the descents but a fresh Wiggins was always able to chase him down.

Yes - don't think that tactic has worked again has it? Often see sky doing it lower on climbs these days, but without the same result.

 

[SeriousSam]

Because it's a tactic that works only if you are have the strongest climber. If you have the strongest climber, mountain trains are in fact the best tactic.

Remarkably, the only climber clearly stronger than Wiggins back then was Froome who was leashed.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Because it's a tactic that works only if you are have the strongest climber. If you have the strongest climber, mountain trains are in fact the best tactic.

Remarkably, the only climber clearly stronger than Wiggins back then was Froome who was leashed.

Isn't it similar to Indurain used to do, take huge times out of the climbers in the time trials and then sit on their wheels in the mountains.

Maybe its just me but I like a tour winner to be a bit more all rounded.

 

[armchairclimber]

I would say that Wiggins is pretty rounded and, though the comparison flatters him greatly, Indurain was similar....but to use that in a disparaging way doesn't really make sense. Wiggins has track 4k golds, the TDF, has a monument top 10, Olympic ITT gold and World ITT gold. He can also hold his own with some of the best climbers....when he's skinny. It's a varied set of skills by anyone's standards.
He doesn't have the buccaneering flashy brilliance of a Contador, with short anaerobic bursts of speed, but the ability to sustain a high output and maintain a good position on the bike is just as valuable, just in a different way. If he does manage to win a classic next year and another track medal, he'll retire with one of the most colourful palmares ever seen.
He might be a berk and a hard fella to like, but I do wonder why people bother trying to knock his ability as a rider.

 

[InterestedSpectator]

I would say that Wiggins is pretty rounded and, though the comparison flatters him greatly, Indurain was similar....but to use that in a disparaging way doesn't really make sense. Wiggins has track 4k golds, the TDF, has a monument top 10, Olympic ITT gold and World ITT gold. He can also hold his own with some of the best climbers....when he's skinny. It's a varied set of skills by anyone's standards.
He doesn't have the buccaneering flashy brilliance of a Contador, with short anaerobic bursts of speed, but the ability to sustain a high output and maintain a good position on the bike is just as valuable, just in a different way. If he does manage to win a classic next year and another track medal, he'll retire with one of the most colourful palmares ever seen.
He might be a berk and a hard fella to like, but I do wonder why people bother trying to knock his ability as a rider.

That's a very rounded post if i may so comment. Sums it up, Wiggins is good enough a climber when trained for it, that he can keep pace with the climbers. Contador has had the ability to get 20 seconds on most rivals on the big climbs, when it matters, but in fact it was elsewhere on the TTs that won it for him from Sky and Froome. Think about Wiggins in next year's Roubaix. You just have this notion that, if that is what Wiggins will go for, then he will succeed. The complete dedicated winning professional.

As Sebastian Coe said, he is bit edgy in interviews, but this is part of his 'JNSP' character.

 

[MellowJohnny]

I would say that Wiggins is pretty rounded and, though the comparison flatters him greatly, Indurain was similar....but to use that in a disparaging way doesn't really make sense. Wiggins has track 4k golds, the TDF, has a monument top 10, Olympic ITT gold and World ITT gold. He can also hold his own with some of the best climbers....when he's skinny. It's a varied set of skills by anyone's standards.
He doesn't have the buccaneering flashy brilliance of a Contador, with short anaerobic bursts of speed, but the ability to sustain a high output and maintain a good position on the bike is just as valuable, just in a different way. If he does manage to win a classic next year and another track medal, he'll retire with one of the most colourful palmares ever seen.
He might be a berk and a hard fella to like, but I do wonder why people bother trying to knock his ability as a rider.

I think in all this is a very good post. Wiggins is a very adaptable rider who has turned his mind and body into winning many different disciplines in cycling. I'm still not sure he would be able to match a Contador or Froome in the high mountains though. In some respects I'd love him to leave Sky and go for GC with another team and maybe have one final showdown against them.

 

[elfed68]

I think in all this is a very good post. Wiggins is a very adaptable rider who has turned his mind and body into winning many different disciplines in cycling. I'm still not sure he would be able to match a Contador or Froome in the high mountains though. In some respects I'd love him to leave Sky and go for GC with another team and maybe have one final showdown against them.

Now that would be pretty awesome, and something I'd love to see, shut the haters up good and proper if he'd manage to finish above Froome.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Now that would be pretty awesome, and something I'd love to see, shut the haters up good and proper if he'd manage to finish above Froome.

I think Wiggins would be perfect for someone like Greenedge, I wonder if Bradley would like a year in the Rainbow TT on the road.

 

[elfed68]

I think Wiggins would be perfect for someone like Greenedge, I wonder if Bradley would like a year in the Rainbow TT on the road.

Has he completed the signing of his new contract with Team Sky as I haven't seen anything mentioned.

I guess Team Sky hold all the cards if he wants to go to Rio, unless winning the Worlds TT win has re sparked interest from other parties who'd want him and also changed Bradley's mind about the future.

 

[del1962]

Has he completed the signing of his new contract with Team Sky as I haven't seen anything mentioned.

I guess Team Sky hold all the cards if he wants to go to Rio, unless winning the Worlds TT win has re sparked interest from other parties who'd want him and also changed Bradley's mind about the future.

He wants to return to the track and I suspect he wants to spend most of his time in Lancanshire, only Sky can really offer him that, it is a shame because I would like to see him do the tour again.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Imagine Wiggins defecting to the Alonso team and do the tour next year. Having to have an Ad-hoc alliance with Froome against Nibali, Contador and Quintana. The stuff of hollywood.

Maybe I've just been reading too much Tom Clancey or maybe Oleg Tinkov has

 

[willbick]

The TdF 09 he minimised his loses on the climbs against Contador, Schleck and Armstrong and had Vande Velde there for close support. No doubt it was a breakthrough year, but he was no where near to winning it and a 40 year old Armstrong beat him.

The Vuelta 11 - Froome was held back for Wiggins sake in the first 2 weeks, I actually think Froome may have beaten Wiggins in the TT over there (but I'm not sure). Again it was a good performance by Wiggins but he never was the dominant rider.

Erm , i wonder how.....

 

[oldcrank]

Coming soon to a Velodrome near you!
http://www.mclarensportshomes.co.uk/Mclaren Sporthome - Sir Bradley Wiggins Motorhome/
Also well equipped for P-R recon.