Wiggins Discussion thread.

[maxmartin]

We know CF is a fake person, but W also looks like a little B****. He even considered leaving Tour when CF left him alone. LOL More drama is unfolding.

" CF has again denied that he deliberately looked to distance Bradley Wiggins on La Toussuire at the Tour de France and expressed his regret that his Sky teammate supposedly considered leaving the race that evening."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-i-never-rode-against-wiggins

 

[El Pistolero]

what are you talking about? should we compare jvdb and andy schlecks results here?

Could you please learn to read for once? It's tiring to keep responding to someone who can't understand the most simple things.

Andy Schleck is much more talented hence gets better results.

JVDB is less talented hence gets worse results.

Yet JVDB at least does well in stage races like Dauphiné, Pais Vasco, Catalunya, Algarve while Andy Schleck is pathetically bad in every race he does except the Ardennes and the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Could you please learn to read for once? It's tiring to keep responding to someone who can't understand the most simple things.

Andy Schleck is much more talented hence gets better results.

JVDB is less talented hence gets worse results.

Yet JVDB at least does well in stage races like Dauphiné, Pais Vasco, Catalunya, Algarve while Andy Schleck is pathetically bad in every race he does except the Ardennes and the Tour.

Ughh if you are including his 12th in Pais Vasco ten Schleck got that in Pais Vasco as well last year, 11th in Amstel and 8th in Cali.

That on top of Liege and Tour de France.

And he usually also does worlds but noth last 2 years because it was a sprint).

But surprise surprise different standards for the Belgian.

Andy is partly excused because he can actually win the Tour and stages and get his face and name out there. Van den brouke can only manage a top 5 anonymously if enough people crash out, yet still chooses that over everything else.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ughh if you are including his 12th in Pais Vasco ten Schleck got that in Pais Vasco as well last year, 11th in Amstel and 8th in Cali.

That on top of Liege and Tour de France.

And he usually also does worlds but noth last 2 years because it was a sprint).

But surprise surprise different standards for the Belgian.

Andy is partly excused because he can actually win the Tour and stages and get his face and name out there. Van den brouke can only manage a top 5 anonymously if enough people crash out, yet still chooses that over everything else.

He was actually much better placed until the time trial in Pais Vasco where he decided to not take risks because of the rain.

Andy only does the Tour and Ardennes and he's much more talented than JVDB. Andy is not excused because he's clearly under-performing given his massive talent.

JVDB has been in the top 5 in the Tour on 2 occasions, so I don't see why you need to insult him with "if enough people crash out". He can make it into the top 5 on any route no matter who's at the start line. And he actually attacked quite a bit in the mountains this year, so why are you calling it anonymously? Did you even watch the race or were you too far with your head up your ...?

Andy could've won multiple GTs already, but hasn't. I can't say the same about VDB2. Besides, he was pretty good in the Vuelta of 2011.

Andy Schleck has never finished a WC road race. Are you really going to use that as an argument? It's a lot harder to make it into the Belgian squad than the Luxembourg squad by the way.

And can I also point out JVDB was actually a GOOD DOMESTIQUE in the Ardennes for Gilbert in 2011? Or didn't you watch those races either? Considering you can't even type his name correctly, I'm not sure why you're participating in this discussion? Your knowledge about the subject is non-existing.

Before you get even angrier I'd also like to point out that I'm not a JVDB fan. I think he has too much of a focus on the Tour de France, but I also think Andy Schleck is much worse than him considering the amount of talent he has. If JVDB had Andy's talent, oh boy...

Andy did pretty much nothing this year and you can't blame that on injuries. His injury started at the Dauphiné. He could barely finish a race the months before that. Aren't you always arguing that results from 2009 are irrelevant by the way?

Ps: you do realize when I'm talking about the Ardennes classics that I also mean AGR right? So your AGR argument doesn't make much sense either as I included it in my post already.

 

[Angliru]

We know CF is a fake person, but W also looks like a little B****. He even considered leaving Tour when CF left him alone. LOL More drama is unfolding.

" CF has again denied that he deliberately looked to distance Bradley Wiggins on La Toussuire at the Tour de France and expressed his regret that his Sky teammate supposedly considered leaving the race that evening."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-i-never-rode-against-wiggins

I blame Froome's actions on La Toussuire on experience and youth, not his trying to be insubordinate. Wiggins on the other hand, is a disappointment.
His reactions fall under the category of a Diva, drama queen. For his own pr and image it would've been wise to omit that section from his book. It may the honest truth but it doesn't reflect well on him as a competitor.

 

[Flamin]

Ughh if you are including his 12th in Pais Vasco ten Schleck got that in Pais Vasco as well last year, 11th in Amstel and 8th in Cali.

Didn't Andy say he raced too hard leading up to the tour that year? which is why he changed his approach this year and which is mainly why his best result up till his injury was a 22th spot in Sarthe.

 

[oldcrank]

BMW wins Tour with a little help from his (Aussie) friends:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/0...s-wiggins-win-not-all-bad-for-aussie-cycling/

 

[mountainrman]

I blame Froome's actions on La Toussuire on experience and youth, not his trying to be insubordinate. Wiggins on the other hand, is a disappointment.
His reactions fall under the category of a Diva, drama queen. For his own pr and image it would've been wise to omit that section from his book. It may the honest truth but it doesn't reflect well on him as a competitor.

I find it strange that someone whose own belief in himself is so shaky as those pages suggest is hard enough mentally to win. He sounds like a belligerent teenager.

That said, I think it is refreshing that we have a real character at the top of the sport!

 

[LaFlorecita]

I find it strange that someone whose own belief in himself is so shaky as those pages suggest is hard enough mentally to win. He sounds like a belligerent teenager.

That said, I think it is refreshing that we have a real character at the top of the sport!

Andy says hello

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Could you please learn to read for once? It's tiring to keep responding to someone who can't understand the most simple things.

Andy Schleck is much more talented hence gets better results.

JVDB is less talented hence gets worse results.

Yet JVDB at least does well in stage races like Dauphiné, Pais Vasco, Catalunya, Algarve while Andy Schleck is pathetically bad in every race he does except the Ardennes and the Tour.

it's you again who clealry doesn't understand. cancellara has (used to) no problems riding for a supertalent like andy schleck because he could perform outside of the tour (lbl win for instance) and could win the tour but someone like jvdb who is far from a supertalent puts everything on one tour and then crashes or finishes 4th. cancellara makes perfect sense and not hypocrite at all. you were too quick to defend one of your belgians again

 

[El Pistolero]

it's you again who clealry doesn't understand. cancellara has (used to) no problems riding for a supertalent like andy schleck because he could perform outside of the tour (lbl win for instance) and could win the tour but someone like jvdb who is far from a supertalent puts everything on one tour and then crashes or finishes 4th. cancellara makes perfect sense and not hypocrite at all. you were too quick to defend one of your belgians again

Cancellara didn't ride at LBL. So that only leaves the Tour. Hilarious how people still think he cares about his teammates after abandoning them in the Vuelta 2010. Wasn't in much form in 2011 Tour and abandoned in the 2012 Tour.

Oh and Contador doesn't need Cancellara, he has already won 7/8 GTs despite Cancellara helping his rivals. Matteo Tossato is a much cheaper buy and did a good enough job in the Giro 2011.

 

[cineteq]

Sarcasm? Which team had comparable to sky resource and could damage Wiggins?? There was no any team.

Neither sarcasm, nor was I talking about teams. You're the one saying Wiggins would've won the Tour without helpers since his TT results would have been enough to keep him ahead. Or did I misinterpret you?

In my opinion, that's ludicrous.

 

[Panda Claws]

Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)

...

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)

But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.

 

[airstream]

Neither sarcasm, nor was I talking about teams. You're the one saying Wiggins would've won the Tour without helpers since his TT results would have been enough to keep him ahead. Or did I misinterpret you?

In my opinion, that's ludicrous.

Yes, he could have won without such strong helpers as he had. I just don't see other teams which could arrange real mountain massacre in the Tour but Sky. Only Radioshack could become such a team, but they had no attacking climber.

For example, Froome pulled Wiggins at Peyragudes, but say Nibali and VdB extracted the same value as Wiggins from that because Froome made other riders drop. But Nibali was dropped too. It directly characterizes his level compared to Wiggins.

High steady tempo is not so spectacular maybe but sometimes it can drop any climber too. Absolutely anyone.

 

[cineteq]

For example, Froome pulled Wiggins at Peyragudes, but say Nibali and VdB extracted the same value as Wiggins from that because Froome made other riders drop. But Nibali was dropped too. It directly characterizes his level compared to Wiggins.

Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)

Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach. Cycling...or life for that matter does nor work like that. Check what Dutcshmurf says:

But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.

+1

If Wiggins didn't have his train, riders would have attacked left and right in different stages. As an example, in the stage Nibali broke away, Evans and VDB would have probably followed him. Say they wouldn't have followed, then Nibali wouldn't have given up that easy as he did.

High steady tempo is not so spectacular maybe but sometimes it can drop any climber too. Absolutely anyone.

USPS ring a bell?

 

[airstream]

But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.

Hm, why Wiggins should have worked on the front being yellow jersey and having one more TT in store? He is an idiot. Wiggins would have defended calmly approximately like Contador in 2010. Even in a more easy key due to lack of attacking climbers in this year's Tour.

You are saying like if he had brought back it would have been doom. Yes, Wiggins would have lost something little by little, but not enough to waste entire TT fund.

Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach.

Which more complicated approach is it possible to see in that?

 

[Afrank]

Cancellara didn't ride at LBL. So that only leaves the Tour. Hilarious how people still think he cares about his teammates after abandoning them in the Vuelta 2010. Wasn't in much form in 2011 Tour and abandoned in the 2012 Tour.

Oh and Contador doesn't need Cancellara, he has already won 7/8 GTs despite Cancellara helping his rivals. Matteo Tossato is a much cheaper buy and did a good enough job in the Giro 2011.

2012 tour he abandoned because his wife was going to be giving birth and he wanted to be there for it. And it's not like either of the Schlecks were contending for the overall and needed his help. As for 2011 tour, there's not much he can do if he's not in the form needed to do it. So those aren't the best examples of him not caring about his teammates. Plus he's shown countless times off and on the road that he does.

 

[Cimber]

Wiggins wouldnt have been able to defend the jersey on his own without a strong team. Naive to think otherwise. The only reason that there se so fed serious attacks was god sky kept them all on check. They would have attacked him left en right, ascending, descending, early and so on and hé would have cracked. Only a constant semi-high tempo made him able to win. No wiggins victory was sky victory more than the other Way around

 

[El Pistolero]

2012 tour he abandoned because his wife was going to be giving birth and he wanted to be there for it. And it's not like either of the Schlecks were contending for the overall and needed his help. As for 2011 tour, there's not much he can do if he's not in the form needed to do it. So those aren't the best examples of him not caring about his teammates. Plus he's shown countless times off and on the road that he does.

Lol, he abandoned to prepare for the Olympics. If he really cared that much about his wife he would've been with her in the final 2 weeks and focused on the Vuelta instead.

Besides Maxim Monfort took a helicopter during the Tour to see his newborn kid and then returned to the Tour. So I call bogus on that.

He had no reason not to be in shape during the Tour of 2011 by the way.

 

[airstream]

Wiggins wouldnt have been able to defend the jersey on his own without a strong team.

Lol, and who would have won the Tour then?

 

[LaFlorecita]

wiggo discussion in the alberto thread

 

[Cimber]

Lol, and who would have won the Tour then?

Some other dude. No Way to tell. Race would have been totally different without a strong sky. But it most likely wouldnt have been wiggins if sky had been mediocre

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol, and who would have won the Tour then?

Someone who wouldn't abandon after having to react to attacks I suppose. So that excludes Bratley Wiggins already.

 

[cineteq]

Someone who wouldn't abandon after having to react to attacks I suppose. So that excludes Bratley Wiggins already.

LOL!!! How about the guy who ended up third in the podium?

PS: Can a mod transfer this comments to the Wiggins thread?