Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[noddy69]

I have my doubts that Martin can be a consistent 3 week high mountain climber regardless of how much doping his competition uses

You don't know he isn't a consistent three week climber because the others dope like they do, thats the point.

 

[BYOP88]

Probably but I like to think its what happens to a normal athlete over a three week tour and if the others were not juiced to the gills the same would happen.......If carlsberg did cycling.

I'd like to think that too.

But sadly this is cycling and the guy who finishes the Tour in 84th and 2 hours 22 minutes and 33 seconds down on the winner is doping just like the guy who comes 1st. The only difference is the guy who wins has the better program and protection.

 

[BYOP88]

You've got to up your game man, it's too obvious now.

He's trying the new Sky peak. Suck a$$ for the early part of the year and hope he hits form in July.

 

[noddy69]

I'd like to think that too.

But sadly this is cycling and the guy who finishes the Tour in 84th and 2 hours 22 minutes and 33 seconds down on the winner is doping just like the guy who comes 1st. The only difference is the guy who wins has the better program and protection.

Dont agree. The guy who finishes outside the top 30 but was looking for much higher has put everything into it and still cant keep up but has shown themselves to be top drawer is not just on a lesser programme.

 

[The Hitch]

Anyway the hill was really tough. Contador could extract an about ''40 sec edge there. So we can not rate that TT as a flat one IMO.

I didn't say it was a flat tt.

I was looking at the intermediates before the climb though.

the second intermediate was at 25km. If you look at the profile its before they even hit a speedbump.

25km of pure flat and this was the split.

1 Mikhail Ignatiev (Rus) Team Katusha 0:28:22
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:00:03
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:00:10
4 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:17
5 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:00:18
5 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank
7 Tony Martin (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC 0:00:20
7 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC
7 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
10 David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:00:25

Now of course, its not exactly the same as a 25km flat tt because people are saving. But the fact that Contador won the tt in the end suggests he wasn't overdoing it over this distance anymore than anyone else.

Still if you look at the list, everyone on it apart from Lulu and Igantiev (so 7 out of 9 +Contador) has won flat tts at grand tours, 4 have won an itt worlds and 2 an olympic gold.

Now of course, Contador was juiced to the gills for this, but I think it shows he can go well on long flat tts, even though he's failed on a few- there aren't that many long flat tts in a season anyway. In that year 2009 iirc it was only the Dauphine tt that was long and flat since the Giro one was 62k over mountains, the 3 vuelta tts were all under 30k and the Tour ones had hills in them. Contador sucked in the 2010 flat tt in the Tour, 2011 again we cant tell cos the tt was hilly, 2012 the vuelta tt was hilly, as was the worlds where he failed, and 2013 he sucked so its hard to find long flat tts where he was on form, which is why i look back to the first 25 k of Annency.

 

[roundabout]

You don't know he isn't a consistent three week climber because the others dope like they do, thats the point.

No, because he has not been a really consistent high mountain climber even at Isard/Aosta level.

It's easy to put it down to other people doping and it's quite reasonable, but I feel that there could be more to it than that.

 

[noddy69]

No, because he has not been a really consistent high mountain climber even at Isard/Aosta level.

It's easy to put it down to other people doping and it's quite reasonable, but I feel that there could be more to it than that.

Vuelta and tour mountain stage wins is high class but stamina he has not got to keep it going. On a 1 day mountain climb he would be up with the best. But with doping the competition doesn't falter one bit. He cannot be consistent while his profile drops over time and his values drop....his body tires while those around stay the same.....at least thats a non scientific hopeful point of view.

How can you be consistent without doping? Again that's my point.

 

[doperhopper]

He's trying the new Sky peak. Suck a$$ for the early part of the year and hope he hits form in July.

never underestimate the magic powers of Tenerife, however, there's a stronger magic of prepaid freeride license for 2014

 

[analogue17]

Contador sucked in the 2010 flat tt in the Tour, 2011 again we cant tell cos the tt was hilly, 2012 the vuelta tt was hilly, as was the worlds where he failed, and 2013 he sucked so its hard to find long flat tts where he was on form, which is why i look back to the first 25 k of Annency.

We won't find them because he's anyway not a specialist at flat TTs, besides prologues, unlike Froome. Though, I have no clue who will win the Tour as it will be decided in the mountains and who is a stronger climber when both are on form is probably the biggest intrigue of the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Can we stop the pointless comparisons and just laugh at how ridiculous absolutely everything is?

Today was not ridiculous. Stage 1 was way more ridiculous.

Pais Vasco uses very similar profiles for its final tt every year. Contador has won the final tt of the race 3 times already in his career. He has come 2nd another time. In the other years the tt was won by Samuel Sanchez (twice) and Chris Horner with Nairo Quintana coming 2nd last time round.

Stage 1 was ridiculous. tirreno was ridiculous. This, was expected.

 

[peloton]

Aha, so basically a relaxed Riis , now that the money problem is solved, can raise the doping training of his riders to levels never seen before.

Makes sense.

Maybe they should hire Dr. Leinders to make sure AC would fly on the flat TT too...

 

[BYOP88]

never underestimate the magic powers of Tenerife, however, there's a stronger magic of prepaid freeride license for 2014

Is it first come first served or do the UCI sell lots of them?

 

[Ripper]

For me there's no question whether Contador or Froome use doping. Yes, they do, either it is doping or new methods which can not be called doping due to brand new technologies. It doesn't matter. However, why Contador seems to be a real champion while Froome is not handled like a legitimate champion is a puzzle. Sometimes I observe people loves to operate with definition of 'talent'. It looks like talent itself allows Contador to be a legitimate doper, but it doesn't work for Froome as many people think. It is a hypocritical stance through and through and the sceptic is the brightest example of that. Tbh, I've read most of the thread and still I'm shocked how people prefer to sink in their personal sympathies.

I would agree that some folks appear to have some misconstrued ideals of talent and doping. I also find demonizing dopers to be somewhat strange ... not that I suggest it should be condoned, but is not like "all doperz are bads people"

 

[The Hitch]

Got to be tough for Sky fans! Just remember Sky/Froome fans when you live in a glass house you shouldn't throw stones.

Looks like Bertie is back to his 09 vintage. It would be interesting if he could keep his 09 TT level and find his 07 climbing level. For me his 07 climbing level was up there with the great dopers of the past.

Greatest doped climbers ever- how I see it

1 Il Pirata 94-99
2 Contador 2007-2009 +11
3 Heras 1999-2004
4 Armstrong 1999-2005
5 Froome 2013 (+?2012?)
6 Robobasso 2005-2006
7 Rasmussen 2007
8 Big Mig 1990-95
9 Der Jan 1997 and sporadically other years
10 Chris Horner 2013

 

[Ripper]

thats because Froome is clean and Rasmussen and Contador are dopers.

LMAO ... that's precious. Nice one!!

Seriously. Why think any of them are clean?

 

[Ripper]

keep dreaming

Froome clean is much better than doped Contador

on April 12, 2014 this is the truth. it may change but for now that what you have to swallow

Hmmmmm ... I'm not sure if you can even compare the two. When were the undoped performances?

 

[Nathan12]

Greatest doped climbers ever- how I see it

1 Il Pirata 94-99
2 Contador 2007-2009 +11
3 Heras 1999-2004
4 Armstrong 1999-2005
5 Froome 2013 (+?2012?)
6 Robobasso 2005-2006
7 Rasmussen 2007
8 Big Mig 1990-95
9 Der Jan 1997 and sporadically other years
10 Chris Horner 2013

I think Basso should be higher. Also Jalabert deserves a place I think. One guy I've always had a question about- Soler. His 2007 Tour sticks in my mind as fairly miraculous.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

Greatest doped climbers ever- how I see it

1 Il Pirata 94-99
2 Contador 2007-2009 +11
3 Heras 1999-2004
4 Armstrong 1999-2005
5 Froome 2013 (+?2012?)
6 Robobasso 2005-2006
7 Rasmussen 2007
8 Big Mig 1990-95
9 Der Jan 1997 and sporadically other years
10 Chris Horner 2013

Wot no SBW???

 

[Ripper]

I didn't say it was a flat tt.

I was looking at the intermediates before the climb though.

the second intermediate was at 25km. If you look at the profile its before they even hit a speedbump.

25km of pure flat and this was the split.

1 Mikhail Ignatiev (Rus) Team Katusha 0:28:22
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:00:03
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:00:10
4 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:17
5 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:00:18
5 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank
7 Tony Martin (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC 0:00:20
7 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC
7 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
10 David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:00:25

Now of course, its not exactly the same as a 25km flat tt because people are saving. But the fact that Contador won the tt in the end suggests he wasn't overdoing it over this distance anymore than anyone else.

Still if you look at the list, everyone on it apart from Lulu and Igantiev (so 7 out of 9 +Contador) has won flat tts at grand tours, 4 have won an itt worlds and 2 an olympic gold.

Now of course, Contador was juiced to the gills for this, but I think it shows he can go well on long flat tts, even though he's failed on a few- there aren't that many long flat tts in a season anyway. In that year 2009 iirc it was only the Dauphine tt that was long and flat since the Giro one was 62k over mountains, the 3 vuelta tts were all under 30k and the Tour ones had hills in them. Contador sucked in the 2010 flat tt in the Tour, 2011 again we cant tell cos the tt was hilly, 2012 the vuelta tt was hilly, as was the worlds where he failed, and 2013 he sucked so its hard to find long flat tts where he was on form, which is why i look back to the first 25 k of Annency.

Some folks still seem to think that because Annecy had a bump on it, that explains why Bertie could smoke it so well but not be considered enhanced. You'd think it was the equivalent of a TT up Ventoux.

 

[The Hitch]

Froome and Contador are both dopers but at least Berto looks good both on and off the bike. Neither can be said about Froome

In the clinic, does it really matter who "looks good" on the bike, or off it?

 

[BYOP88]

Greatest doped climbers ever- how I see it

1 Il Pirata 94-99
2 Contador 2007-2009 +11
3 Heras 1999-2004
4 Armstrong 1999-2005
5 Froome 2013 (+?2012?)
6 Robobasso 2005-2006
7 Rasmussen 2007
8 Big Mig 1990-95
9 Der Jan 1997 and sporadically other years
10 Chris Horner 2013

Nice list. I think "El Chava" was a damn fine doped climber too.

 

[LaFlorecita]

In the clinic, does it really matter who "looks good" on the bike, or off it?

No, but the discussion was about style...

 

[the sceptic]

Sir Bjarne Riis and Santi Perez missing from the top 10 list

 

[burning]

Sir Bjarne Riis and Santi Perez missing from the top 10 list

Il principe was really special as well

 

[roundabout]

Wot no SBW???

Any performances worth remembering without being tethered to Froome?