World Politics

[Anonymous]

The same private market solutions that that give us Credit Default Swaps and ENRONS...

big government oh noooo lions tigers and bears..

Yes. That private market. You know, the govt regulated one that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ran... that one, you know, the Fannie Mae one.

 

[Anonymous]

A system which takes money that people pay towards healthcare and spends it on advertising so that more people will spend their money with a particular health care corporation, all the while denying services because of "cost", is just plain wrong.

I don't disagree with any of this on a human level. So how does this work exactly? Govt provides all this for free?

Deny coverage. Cost. These are interesting terms. Should there ever be a limit on coverage? Anything and everything is covered because health is a human right? Sounds good. Physicians and hospitals, therapists, care givers, equipment manufacturers and drug makers should provide for free? Take the profit out of all of it. Make doctors work for .... $25 an hour? Is that too much?

I like it. Eff doctors, eff hospitals and certainly eff big pharma.

 

[rhubroma]

Yes. That private market. You know, the govt regulated one that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ran... that one, you know, the Fannie Mae one.

Yes but you conveniently forget that the government appointed men to regulate the financial markets from within the finance world itself; men who, therefore, stood to make the most profit from a market without rules. So how about those “regulated” markets.

The conflict of interests, a government that isn't in any way independent from business, and the greed that was allowed to thrive, led to the disaster and tells us all that's wrong with capitalism today.

Meanwhile, the public gets called in by government to clean up the mess of a party to which they were not even invited. Great system!

 

[redtreviso]

Yes. That private market. You know, the govt regulated one that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ran... that one, you know, the Fannie Mae one.

That is just plain stupid scott..and you know it..The wheels were already flying off before they came along.. The looting of Fannie and Freddie was a total Republican affair. Did you drink much last night? I thought so.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes but you conveniently forget that the government appointed men to regulate the financial markets from within the finance world itself; men who, therefore, stood to make the most profit from a market without rules. So how about those “regulated” markets.

The conflict of interests, a government that isn't in any way independent from business, and the greed that was allowed to thrive, led to the disaster and tells us all that's wrong with capitalism today.

Meanwhile, the public gets called in by government to clean up the mess of a party to which they were not even invited. Great system!

Which is why we should look to more and more government solutions for two reasons:

1. it will all be free of cost

2. we will no longer have to think for ourselves as the govt will do our thinking for us (they know better than any individual).

I'm only partly kidding.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't disagree with any of this on a human level. So how does this work exactly? Govt provides all this for free?

Deny coverage. Cost. These are interesting terms. Should there ever be a limit on coverage? Anything and everything is covered because health is a human right? Sounds good. Physicians and hospitals, therapists, care givers, equipment manufacturers and drug makers should provide for free? Take the profit out of all of it. Make doctors work for .... $25 an hour? Is that too much?

I like it. Eff doctors, eff hospitals and certainly eff big pharma.

Genius, that was exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

[Anonymous]

That is just plain stupid scott..and you know it..The wheels were already flying off before they came along.. The looting of Fannie and Freddie was a total Republican affair. Did you drink much last night? I thought so.

Oh of course. The govt regulations had nothing to do with anything. It was all due to the evil for profit capitalists. There was no involvement from any political class that contributed to the scandal. None.

Thanks for the recent history re-write. It's illustrative.

 

[rhubroma]

I don't disagree with any of this on a human level. So how does this work exactly? Govt provides all this for free?

Deny coverage. Cost. These are interesting terms. Should there ever be a limit on coverage? Anything and everything is covered because health is a human right? Sounds good. Physicians and hospitals, therapists, care givers, equipment manufacturers and drug makers should provide for free? Take the profit out of all of it. Make doctors work for .... $25 an hour? Is that too much?

I like it. Eff doctors, eff hospitals and certainly eff big pharma.

Scott, how many times do we have to go over this? The government pays for it by the tax payers' contributions.

And how does it work? Ask every other country that has a socialized health care system. I've lived in one for years and it would be inconceivable here for a private health care system to be the only option for society, without any viable public option paid for through taxes. Precisely because not everyone could afford it and getting treatment for health issues is seen as a basic and civilized right (like the right to a fair trial). Its also a principle that needs to be placed beyond the mere logic of profit, the market and who pays.

Not everybody works? Pays taxes? So we shouldn't have to pay for them through our taxes? These folks are mostly already down and out, should they also not be eligible to medical treatment if they get sick? This is what I meant about America needing to find some damn humanity.

Because in the pursuit of this extremist cult of the individual here, and in support of a base and self-serving ideology, the nation looses its humanity.

 

[redtreviso]

Scott, how many times do we have to go over this? The government pays for it by the tax payers' contributions.

And how does it work? Ask every other country that has a socialized health care system. I've lived in one for years and it would be inconceivable here for a private health care system to be the only option for society, without any viable public option paid for through taxes. Precisely because not everyone could afford it and getting treatment for health issues is seen as a basic and civilized right (like the right to a fair trial). Its also a principle that needs to be placed beyond the mere logic of profit, the market and who pays.

Not everybody works? Pays taxes? So we shouldn't have to pay for them through our taxes? These folks are mostly already down and out, should they also not be eligible to medical treatment if they get sick? This is what I meant about America needing to find some damn humanity.

Because in the pursuit of this extremist cult of the individual here, and in support of a base and self-serving ideology, the nation looses its humanity.

and they don't call it socialized health care.. more like NATIONALIZED health care. You could even call it PATRIOTIC health care. or CIVILIZED health care..Only here does it get called SOCIALIZED..You might as well call it COMMUNIST HEALTH care because that is what morAns like Scott hear.

 

[Anonymous]

Genius, that was exactly the point I was trying to make.

No, your point was an emotional declaration. Now tell me how it will work?

Is there ever any health condition or situation where you would say no?

When you cover anything and everything do you realize what will happen to cost?

 

[Anonymous]

Scott, how many times do we have to go over this? The government pays for it by the tax payers' contributions.

And how does it work? Ask every other country that has a socialized health care system. I've lived in one for years and it would be inconceivable here for a private health care system to be the only option for society, without any viable public option paid for through taxes. Precisely because not everyone could afford it and getting treatment for health issues is seen as a basic and civilized right (like the right to a fair trial). Its also a principle that needs to be placed beyond the mere logic of profit, the market and who pays.

Not everybody works? Pays taxes? So we shouldn't have to pay for them through our taxes? These folks are mostly already down and out, should they also not be eligible to medical treatment if they get sick? This is what I meant about America needing to find some damn humanity.

Because in the pursuit of this extremist cult of the individual here, and in support of a base and self-serving ideology, the nation looses its humanity.

Lordy, Rhub. You just let your emotions go....

HJ said it was just wrong to deny coverage (I can only assume he means anyone/everyone). I asked him how it would work? Covering everything in a tax payer funded govt system will cost less? By magic? Care gets better, govt covers everyone.... and costs go down??

You must not be a math professor.

 

[Anonymous]

and they don't call it socialized health care.. more like NATIONALIZED health care. You could even call it PATRIOTIC health care. or CIVILIZED health care..Only here does it get called SOCIALIZED..You might as well call it COMMUNIST HEALTH care because that is what morAns like Scott hear.

Nice add to the debate, Klink. Your ideas are truly overwhelming.

 

[rhubroma]

Lordy, Rhub. You just let your emotions go....

HJ said it was just wrong to deny coverage (I can only assume he means anyone/everyone). I asked him how it would work? Covering everything in a tax payer funded govt system will cost less? By magic? Care gets better, govt covers everyone.... and costs go down??

You must not be a math professor.

And you must not have a conscience.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Lordy, Rhub. You just let your emotions go....

HJ said it was just wrong to deny coverage (I can only assume he means anyone/everyone). I asked him how it would work? Covering everything in a tax payer funded govt system will cost less? By magic? Care gets better, govt covers everyone.... and costs go down??

You must not be a math professor.

No waste in your system, unless you include the millions spent on advertising and the huge salaries paid to the CEOs who work dirrectly for the bottom line profit margin (being sure to spend less on treatment than the corporation brings in) and oh yeah that cost of printing and mailing out all those fancy denial of treatment form letters.

 

[redtreviso]

Nice add to the debate, Klink. Your ideas are truly overwhelming.

Glad to be of help..dealing with alcoholics is such a strain. (or is a brain tumor?)

 

[benpounder]

[...]

Although anecdotal tales offer insight and can substantiate a position, they can not be used as a basis of an argument. I have no personal reference for Houston in the 80's other than my house-mate in college. He hated Reagan and was a beneficiary of the Texas oil business. None the less, I thank you for altering your tone.

My initial point was, and still is, it is difficult to lay blame directly on one person. I think the Obama Presidency is a train wreck, yet the problems we have here in northwestern Colorado are as much the fault of our former Governor and Senator (Ritter and Salazar) and state legislature. We have huge fields of natural gas and oil shale that could be exploited. And it could be exploited responsibly. Yet instead of investigating how to utilize those resources, Ritter issued a moratorium. Communities dependent upon the energy industry are suffering and that suffering has a ripple effect. And that effect is compounded by well intentioned local governments that lay down onerous regulations that have disastrous unintended consequences.

If one really wants to solve a problem, they have to identify all the causes, and partisan political bickering is not the path.

[myedit] It does, however, make for successful television - the reason why I stopped watching all TV news six years ago.

 

[redtreviso]

Although anecdotal tales offer insight and can substantiate a position, they can not be used as a basis of an argument. I have no personal reference for Houston in the 80's other than my house-mate in college. He hated Reagan and was a beneficiary of the Texas oil business. None the less, I thank you for altering your tone.

My initial point was, and still is, it is difficult to lay blame directly on one person. I think the Obama Presidency is a train wreck, yet the problems we have here in northwestern Colorado are as much the fault of our former Governor and Senator (Ritter and Salazar) and state legislature. We have huge fields of natural gas and oil shale that could be exploited. And it could be exploited responsibly. Yet instead of investigating how to utilize those resources, Ritter issued a moratorium. Communities dependent upon the energy industry are suffering and that suffering has a ripple effect. And that effect is compounded by well intentioned local governments that lay down onerous regulations that have disastrous unintended consequences.

If one really wants to solve a problem, they have to identify all the causes, and partisan political bickering is not the path.

[myedit] It does, however, make for successful television. The reason why I stopped watching all TV news six years ago.

Could be but probably wouldn't be..but like around here the state would all but give the rights away and you would not benefit except to hear a 12 cylinder diesel compressor or generator a mile away running 24/7 for eternity...The Dubai company that will do the exploiting will thank you though.

btw Obama inherited the train wreck.. The wreck you voted for?

 

[benpounder]

Could be but probably wouldn't be.

Ritter, as Governor, could have stipulated that any oil company wanting to exploit our natural resources replace 98% of the water used in that exploitation back into the watershed at 100% of the quality taken out. As chief executive of this state, he could have set parameters that allow the energy company's to evaluate whether or not it would be profitable for them to go forward, or cease. Former Governor Ritter punted.

 

[rhubroma]

No waste in your system, unless you include the millions spent on advertising and the huge salaries paid to the CEOs who work dirrectly for the bottom line profit margin (being sure to spend less on treatment than the corporation brings in) and oh yeah that cost of printing and mailing out all those fancy denial of treatment form letters.

Numbers are numbers and human beings are human beings. The problem is when human beings are considered numbers and numbers human beings.

 

[benpounder]

btw Obama inherited the train wreck.. The wreck you voted for?

Undoubtedly Obama walked into a mess. I did not vote for Bush in 2000, but given his opponent in 2004, it was a choice of the lesser of evils. There are many things that the Bush Administration did that I objected to. But if you want to shed the partisan shroud, you have to admit that Obama is doing just the same.

 

[redtreviso]

Undoubtedly Obama walked into a mess. I did not vote for Bush in 2000, but given his opponent in 2004, it was a choice of the lesser of evils. There are many things that the Bush Administration did that I objected to. But if you want to shed the partisan shroud, you have to admit that Obama is doing just the same.

Oh please do elaborate..

http://www.earthworksaction.org/PR_TXOGAP_TCEQsnub.cfm

 

[benpounder]

Oh please do elaborate..

What's with the non-sequitur?

 

[redtreviso]

What's with the non-sequitur?

Who investigated BCCI?

 

[Anonymous]

No waste in your system, unless you include the millions spent on advertising and the huge salaries paid to the CEOs who work dirrectly for the bottom line profit margin (being sure to spend less on treatment than the corporation brings in) and oh yeah that cost of printing and mailing out all those fancy denial of treatment form letters.

Well, I think you are only a few years from getting exactly what you want. Let's hope it does not end up like public education.

 

[benpounder]

Speaking of non sequiturs, it bewilders me why so many are, seemingly, afraid to claim a hometown. I have no problem claiming residence to Steamboat Springs, Colorado; population 9000. [snark alert] you afraid some one might recognize you?