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Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
This is an easy one. Who has chemical weapons such as chlorine, and who has a history of using them? Russia? Yes, they possess them, but not in Syria as far as I know. And no, they don't use them. Assad? No, he doesn't have any. Remember how Russia negotiated the surrender of all Syrian chemical weapons? And no, despite the hysterical western media, Assad has never used chemical weapons.

The radical head-choppers that have invaded Syria? Why, yes. And yes again.

John Swanson
Not saying you are wrong but.

Survivors of a deadly airstrike in Syria have described chemical bombs being dropped from planes, in accounts that directly contradicted the Assad regime's version of a dawn attack that drew condemnation around the world.
At least 70 people have been killed in northern Syria after being exposed to a toxic gas that survivors said was dropped from warplanes, an attack that sparked comparisons to the most infamous act of the country’s six-year war.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/idlib-syria-attack
 
Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
This is an easy one. Who has chemical weapons such as chlorine, and who has a history of using them? Russia? Yes, they possess them, but not in Syria as far as I know. And no, they don't use them. Assad? No, he doesn't have any. Remember how Russia negotiated the surrender of all Syrian chemical weapons? And no, despite the hysterical western media, Assad has never used chemical weapons.

The radical head-choppers that have invaded Syria? Why, yes. And yes again.

John Swanson
If what you're saying is true, that Isis has been able to get those mig 21's they stole operational and capable of delivering chemical weapons by air, we're moving into an extremely dangerous time, even more so than it already is.

When Isis obtained jet fighters mostly everyone dismissed their ability to get them airborne, let alone deliver ordinance. Most observers figured it was at best a propaganda victory, but maybe they were wrong?

Very scary times indeed...
 
Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
ScienceIsCool said:
This is an easy one. Who has chemical weapons such as chlorine, and who has a history of using them? Russia? Yes, they possess them, but not in Syria as far as I know. And no, they don't use them. Assad? No, he doesn't have any. Remember how Russia negotiated the surrender of all Syrian chemical weapons? And no, despite the hysterical western media, Assad has never used chemical weapons.

The radical head-choppers that have invaded Syria? Why, yes. And yes again.

John Swanson
Not saying you are wrong but.

Survivors of a deadly airstrike in Syria have described chemical bombs being dropped from planes, in accounts that directly contradicted the Assad regime's version of a dawn attack that drew condemnation around the world.
At least 70 people have been killed in northern Syria after being exposed to a toxic gas that survivors said was dropped from warplanes, an attack that sparked comparisons to the most infamous act of the country’s six-year war.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/idlib-syria-attack
Isis has mig 21's and mig 23's..

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/isis-reportedly-has-fighter-pilots-flying-migs-over-syr-1647549076
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Bustedknuckle said:
ScienceIsCool said:
This is an easy one. Who has chemical weapons such as chlorine, and who has a history of using them? Russia? Yes, they possess them, but not in Syria as far as I know. And no, they don't use them. Assad? No, he doesn't have any. Remember how Russia negotiated the surrender of all Syrian chemical weapons? And no, despite the hysterical western media, Assad has never used chemical weapons.

The radical head-choppers that have invaded Syria? Why, yes. And yes again.

John Swanson
Not saying you are wrong but.

Survivors of a deadly airstrike in Syria have described chemical bombs being dropped from planes, in accounts that directly contradicted the Assad regime's version of a dawn attack that drew condemnation around the world.
At least 70 people have been killed in northern Syria after being exposed to a toxic gas that survivors said was dropped from warplanes, an attack that sparked comparisons to the most infamous act of the country’s six-year war.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/idlib-syria-attack
Isis has mig 21's and mig 23's..

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/isis-reportedly-has-fighter-pilots-flying-migs-over-syr-1647549076
Didn't know that but Russia would allow these aircraft to exist? No Russian strikes against them? Plus they flew at night, do they have that capability?

They have the knowledge to get the chemical into the droppable weapon? Be able to load it, then drop it with accuracy(not much needed with an area weapon)..not saying it didn't happen and it doesn't make much sense for Assad to order this but....
 
Jul 5, 2009
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https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jumping-conclusions-something-not-adding-idlib-chemical-weapons-attack/

"And most telling, there announcement of covering the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian government, hours before this allegation even emerged…….. Seems like someone forgot to tell him that it would not occur for a few more hours before his tweet."

There's a lot of problems with the official story. Of course, the official story was also primed and ready to go. That alone should set the alarm bells ringing.

John Swanson
 
Jul 5, 2009
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The MiG-21 is an air interceptor and cannot use chemical munitions. Syria also has the BN variant of the MiG-23 and can carry two 500 kg bombs. So that's a possibility. Except that Syria gave up its chemical munitions. Syria *used* to have sarin, mustard gas, and NX. None of those was used in the recent attack. Besides, floggers are rarely used for night operations because they're not very "user friendly"

Quote: "There's only one airplane I've ever been afraid of, and that's the MiG-23," Myers said. "That thing was trying to kill you from when you started it to when you shut it down. I never flew an airplane that didn't give some indication it was going out of control, and this thing did not give any warning."

On top of the Flogger's Jeckyll and Hyde handling characteristics, Myers said the MiG-23 canopies had a nasty tendency of imploding under vigorous air-combat maneuvers." - http://www.jber.af.mil/News/NewsArticles/tabid/10018/Article/290661/former-us-mig-pilot-talks-with-3rd-operations-group-airmen.aspx

John Swanson
 
So, what's the story now? Rebels hitting a stockpile of sarin? Rebels suddenly flighing warplanes? A false flag operation? Assad would be far-fetched, right?

Weird that no-one seems to be knowing what is going on in Syrian airspace.
 
Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
Irondan said:
Bustedknuckle said:
ScienceIsCool said:
This is an easy one. Who has chemical weapons such as chlorine, and who has a history of using them? Russia? Yes, they possess them, but not in Syria as far as I know. And no, they don't use them. Assad? No, he doesn't have any. Remember how Russia negotiated the surrender of all Syrian chemical weapons? And no, despite the hysterical western media, Assad has never used chemical weapons.

The radical head-choppers that have invaded Syria? Why, yes. And yes again.

John Swanson
Not saying you are wrong but.

Survivors of a deadly airstrike in Syria have described chemical bombs being dropped from planes, in accounts that directly contradicted the Assad regime's version of a dawn attack that drew condemnation around the world.
At least 70 people have been killed in northern Syria after being exposed to a toxic gas that survivors said was dropped from warplanes, an attack that sparked comparisons to the most infamous act of the country’s six-year war.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/idlib-syria-attack
Isis has mig 21's and mig 23's..

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/isis-reportedly-has-fighter-pilots-flying-migs-over-syr-1647549076
Didn't know that but Russia would allow these aircraft to exist? No Russian strikes against them? Plus they flew at night, do they have that capability?

They have the knowledge to get the chemical into the droppable weapon? Be able to load it, then drop it with accuracy(not much needed with an area weapon)..not saying it didn't happen and it doesn't make much sense for Assad to order this but....
All good questions that I don't think anyone knows quite yet (except intelligence agencies).
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Re:

Jagartrott said:
So, what's the story now? Rebels hitting a stockpile of sarin? Rebels suddenly flighing warplanes? A false flag operation? Assad would be far-fetched, right?

Weird that no-one seems to be knowing what is going on in Syrian airspace.
Perfect summary!!

An investigation hasn't been done, so nobody knows what actually happened! That won't stop the usual suspects from casting blame. Pure propaganda, really.

John Swanson
 
Re:

Jagartrott said:
So, what's the story now? Rebels hitting a stockpile of sarin? Rebels suddenly flighing warplanes? A false flag operation? Assad would be far-fetched, right?

Weird that no-one seems to be knowing what is going on in Syrian airspace.
Not the rebels. Isis.

I think what we're pointing out is that it's possible that Isis has aircraft capable of delivering chemical weapons.

We don't know if they can actually fly the planes, handle chemical weapons or if Isis even has them, can fly an operation and deliver these weapons or have the sophistication to pull off such an operation under the world intelligence agencies noses, including Russia.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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...as an armchair military expert and yet trying to look into the ISIS-owned mig aircraft on its own technical and common sense merits, i would find it a tad unlikely. not saying it is impossible, b/c we all heard how many fully functional heavy weapons they had captivated both in syria and iraq, but the more or less objective sanity check does not suppoort them having the military jets.

1st, at no time did the russian political or military officials, i stress - officials, said a peep or hinted about the possibility. it would seem to serve their version of the events, had they suspected the migs in the isis hands. neither a well-informed analytical aviation blog i regularly read (https://theaviationist.com/ has ever entertained the story

2nd, according to the official, again - official syriam story it was the alqaida that used the chemical weapons.

3d, and perhaps most important, if a mig, or the migs were flown by the isis affiliated pilots, they could only do it from the ISIS-controlled territory. it is a given and indisputable prerequisite. it is one thing to hide and/or camouflage a grounded jet, and quite another to disguise it when it is airborne, even if the markings and the friend-foe electronic gear are faked to pass it as a syrian arab army jets.

the reason is technical and it is simple - the syrian airspace is saturated by all kinds of early warning/surveillance/anti-air systems. these are ground and space based radars and heat sensitive devices.

particularly active and well informed are the israelis and the russians. may be the americans too. the israelis and the russians would know within seconds if a tiny home-made rocket, much less the huge, fire-breathing jet engines were airborne from anywhere within syria. they'd point them to within few meters by their heat signature confirmed by the radars. actually, the russians had demonstrated many times such an ability when israel was trying hide some secret tests launches and flights over the mediterranean. the israeli are paranoid about the rockets from syria and lebanon and the russians are paranoid about the threats to their hmeinim airbase housing the s-400 surveillance radars.

but we also have the turkish, jordanian and the american surveillance gear all over the area. i give it exactly one day existence if the russians or israelis or the americans found out about such secret isis airfields.
 
Re: Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
Perfect summary!!

An investigation hasn't been done, so nobody knows what actually happened! That won't stop the usual suspects from casting blame. Pure propaganda, really.
You have your own truth. Like when you claim Assad has no chemical weapons. You cannot know that, but it precludes Assad from taking blame, as conforms to the narrative you've been following here for a long while. It's not very scientific of you.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

Jagartrott said:
ScienceIsCool said:
Perfect summary!!

An investigation hasn't been done, so nobody knows what actually happened! That won't stop the usual suspects from casting blame. Pure propaganda, really.
You have your own truth. Like when you claim Assad has no chemical weapons. You cannot know that, but it precludes Assad from taking blame, as conforms to the narrative you've been following here for a long while. It's not very scientific of you.
Science is not necessary for international affairs. :idea:
Syria is not complicated. "rebels" = some are isis. Which muddies the water.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Re: Re:

Jagartrott said:
ScienceIsCool said:
Perfect summary!!

An investigation hasn't been done, so nobody knows what actually happened! That won't stop the usual suspects from casting blame. Pure propaganda, really.
You have your own truth. Like when you claim Assad has no chemical weapons. You cannot know that, but it precludes Assad from taking blame, as conforms to the narrative you've been following here for a long while. It's not very scientific of you.
The US Army was the organization that carried out the destruction of Syria's chemical munitions in accordance with several international agreements and UN Security Council resolution 2118. The Syrian Army, under supervision, destroyed all munitions, mixing equipment, and filling equipment including mobile equipment.

Syria doesn't have any chemical munitions unless they somehow acquired new ones. You can argue that they have hidden stockpiles that didn't get destroyed, but that wouldn't matter. They have no equipment to use it. The fallout from deploying hidden stocks of chemical munitions would also be severe. Say goodbye to your alliance with Russia and Iran, though Hezbollah would probably remain. Say hello to US cruise missiles.

No. Syria does not have and has no desire to use chemical weapons. Things are finally going well for them. Why would they throw all that away?

John Swanson
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re: Re:

Semper Fidelis said:
ScienceIsCool said:
Semper Fidelis said:
All I know is that I sure hope copperhead leaves this alone. No action required by the USA. Leave it alone.
You shouldn't read this then....
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46814.htm

John Swanson
I have already seen that yesterday.
I sure hope the USA does not get involved. It is a freaking trap. Lebanon comes to mind.
tillerson is heading to moscow within days.

there could be no doubt that some hard questions will be asked and hopefully answered. the threat of an american military action against assad, while the dude is under the real miltary umbella held by vlad, will be front and center.

i reasonably speculate that tillerson will hear what was already said once publicly - any attack on the syrian military infrastructure will AUTOMATICALLY trigger a a military response b/c they dont have the luxury and the time of guessing if the attack targets them or the assad forces. be that cruise missles or bombers does not matter. a lot of shyt will then start flying with very grim consequences for both sides.

did trump bluff ? i dont know. but i am willing to speculate that vlad wont bluff as was evidenced by his increased assertiveness in ukraine and syria. it's been proven futile to play brinkmanship with him.

if trump hopes on a limited 'something' in the hope of getting all his domestic critics off his back for 'chumming' to vlad, a miscalculation would be more than likely.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
ScienceIsCool said:
Semper Fidelis said:
All I know is that I sure hope copperhead leaves this alone. No action required by the USA. Leave it alone.
You shouldn't read this then....
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46814.htm

John Swanson
I have already seen that yesterday.
I sure hope the USA does not get involved. It is a freaking trap. Lebanon comes to mind.
tillerson is heading to moscow within days.

there could be no doubt that some hard questions will be asked and hopefully answered. the threat of an american military action against assad, while the dude is under the real miltary umbella held by vlad, will be front and center.

i reasonably speculate that tillerson will hear what was already said once publicly - any attack on the syrian military infrastructure will AUTOMATICALLY trigger a a military response b/c they dont have the luxury and the time of guessing if the attack targets them or the assad forces. be that cruise missles or bombers does not matter. a lot of shyt will then start flying with very grim consequences for both sides.

did trump bluff ? i dont know. but i am willing to speculate that vlad wont bluff as was evidenced by his increased assertiveness in ukraine and syria. it's been proven futile to play brinkmanship with him.

if trump hopes on a limited 'something' in the hope of getting all his domestic critics off his back for 'chumming' to vlad, a miscalculation would be more than likely.
In my opinion this is the plan or tactics created or pressured by the democrats in washington. They are begging for this to happen.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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The numbers are a bit misleading because although Russia has 18,000 Soviet era tanks, all but 300 are in storage. Other than that they have ~600 modern T-90 and a few dozen ultra-modern T-14 Armata tanks. Long gone are the Soviet notions of pouring endless numbers of tanks through the Suwalki and Fulda gaps. The tiny number (<1000) tanks that are in service are all about defense.

John Swanson
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
The numbers are a bit misleading because although Russia has 18,000 Soviet era tanks, all but 300 are in storage. Other than that they have ~600 modern T-90 and a few dozen ultra-modern T-14 Armata tanks. Long gone are the Soviet notions of pouring endless numbers of tanks through the Suwalki and Fulda gaps. The tiny number (<1000) tanks that are in service are all about defense.

John Swanson
Maybe one day we can dream about the soviet and american great tank battles to come.

Well at least if the democrats in the USA have anything to say about it. Freaking them and McCain the pain will drag us into another war that we should not be in.
 
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