2017 Giro d'Italia: Stage-by-stage Analysis

[TromleTromle]

Re: Re:

Oropa, Valdengo and Piancavallo stages are pathetic.
The Ortisei and Asiago stages could have been much much better as well. And isn't there enough room for a finish at the top of Blockhaus?

1. Great preview post! Kudos!

2. I personally think this route is awesome expect for Unoropapublico... ...yes lots of new translations of classic climbs. But i love ortesei, dolomites, foza and etna/blockhaus. I Think this will be an amazing

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, the plateau after Foza is pretty awesome actually.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah it's definitely interesting. I just wished they'd a harder side of the Monte Grappa

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Oropa, Valdengo and Piancavallo stages are pathetic.
The Ortisei and Asiago stages could have been much much better as well. And isn't there enough room for a finish at the top of Blockhaus?

What's wrong with the Valdengo stage 15? If there were no MTFs then this one could have potentially had good GC action. Also stages 18 and 20 (Ortisei and Asiago) I wonder what they should have done differently.

Maybe on stage 18, not have that last lap of Ortisei and instead finish at 103km would be better I think. I like the 15 extra km on stage 20 after the Foza climb. The typical MTF watt/kg slugfest that decides grand tours is really bland... wish there were more GC relevant stages that weren't MTFs like stage 20.

For stage 20, a harder side for Grappa.

For stage 18, here's one possibility:

San Pellegrino, Duran, Staulanza, Fedaia, Sella.

 

[Red Rick]

Somebody needs to say it, and if Libertine won't, I will.

Fedaia (FEDAIAAAAAA!!!!!)

Such a better stage

 

[Valv.Piti]

2,5 daaaaays.

Mayo, are we gonna climb Fedaia?

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

2,5 daaaaays.

Mayo, are we gonna climb Fedaia?

Let's see. we'd need to change things up a bit, but it's doable. The traffic around the Sella group can be a bit too muc durning the summer, usually its better to climb Fedaia in the late spring/eary autumn.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Oropa, Valdengo and Piancavallo stages are pathetic.
The Ortisei and Asiago stages could have been much much better as well. And isn't there enough room for a finish at the top of Blockhaus?

What's wrong with the Valdengo stage 15? If there were no MTFs then this one could have potentially had good GC action. Also stages 18 and 20 (Ortisei and Asiago) I wonder what they should have done differently.

Maybe on stage 18, not have that last lap of Ortisei and instead finish at 103km would be better I think. I like the 15 extra km on stage 20 after the Foza climb. The typical MTF watt/kg slugfest that decides grand tours is really bland... wish there were more GC relevant stages that weren't MTFs like stage 20.

For stage 20, a harder side for Grappa.

For stage 18, here's one possibility:

San Pellegrino, Duran, Staulanza, Fedaia, Sella.

So do you want to kill the riders?

Maybe not kill them, but that is way too much. IMHO.

 

[Eshnar]

nah only 140 km. We had stuff like that already.

 

[motty89]

Great Stuff Eshnar
Somehow I don't seem as disappointed as when the route was announced, Probably because at the time I was expecting fedaia to be there .
I'll be seeing the etna stage live, anyone know whether it will be ok cycling up the east side (from Zafferana Etnea)?

 

[Eshnar]

Re:

Great Stuff Eshnar
Somehow I don't seem as disappointed as when the route was announced, Probably because at the time I was expecting fedaia to be there .
I'll be seeing the etna stage live, anyone know whether it will be ok cycling up the east side (from Zafferana Etnea)?

it should be open (but can't confirm, sorry), but I hope you are in shape because that's a hell of a climb...

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Great Stuff Eshnar
Somehow I don't seem as disappointed as when the route was announced, Probably because at the time I was expecting fedaia to be there .
I'll be seeing the etna stage live, anyone know whether it will be ok cycling up the east side (from Zafferana Etnea)?

Check with local authorities the day before. That side should be open up to the point where it meets the road climbed by the riders. Tough climb, road was in perfect conditions 6 months ago.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Oropa, Valdengo and Piancavallo stages are pathetic.
The Ortisei and Asiago stages could have been much much better as well. And isn't there enough room for a finish at the top of Blockhaus?

What's wrong with the Valdengo stage 15? If there were no MTFs then this one could have potentially had good GC action. Also stages 18 and 20 (Ortisei and Asiago) I wonder what they should have done differently.

Maybe on stage 18, not have that last lap of Ortisei and instead finish at 103km would be better I think. I like the 15 extra km on stage 20 after the Foza climb. The typical MTF watt/kg slugfest that decides grand tours is really bland... wish there were more GC relevant stages that weren't MTFs like stage 20.

For stage 20, a harder side for Grappa.

For stage 18, here's one possibility:

San Pellegrino, Duran, Staulanza, Fedaia, Sella.

So do you want to kill the riders?

Maybe not kill them, but that is way too much. IMHO.

So you want the Bormio stage cancelled as well? The Dolomites stage last year should have been cancelled as well?

Both are far harder than this design.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I stopped reading feltet.dk's route analysis since he wrote it had become a much better race when Zomegnan was fired, despite the next 3 eidtions (12-14) being much worse than TdF.

Apparantly, the Giro had become more about survival than actual racing. That explains the lame racing in 2010 and 2011 (where the field also was bad since it were way too hard routes.......................). Lawl. Prison sentence, thanks-

Sometimes, sometimes..... I suppose the story need to continue. I sometimes wonder if these guys watch cycling.

Edit: Ok, Im actually angry. Why. Why does the media need to do this? Its the same *** all over the place.

 

[tobydawq]

In what universe was the 2012 Giro worse than the 2012 Tour?

And I think the guy who wrote that watches more cycling than everyone. It's completely insane how much time he spends on watching, live-updating and wrtiting about cycling. When that is said, I will agree that he often gets an idea, repeats it an infinite number of times and then states it as fact for the remainder of all time.

 

[deValtos]

Re:

In what universe was the 2012 Giro worse than the 2012 Tour?

And I think the guy who wrote that watches more cycling than everyone. It's completely insane how much time he spends on watching, live-updating and wrtiting about cycling. When that is said, I will agree that he often gets an idea, repeats it an infinite number of times and then states it as fact for the remainder of all time.

Well both were arguably the worst 2 GT's in recent memory, shame they happened in the same year. It's basically Stelvio stage vs Froome/Wiggins drama. I'm much more optimistic for this Giro though.

 

[tobydawq]

Well, but in the Giro it was quite exciting what would happen and there were some very entertaining highlights such as Rabottini's magnificent beating of Purito and de Gendt's near-steal of the whole race on Stelvio. Also, the final victory margin was very small and the race went down to the wire and the winner was completely unpredictable before the race.

In the Tour, it was a foregone conclusion that Wiggins would win and it was only the debut of Sagan in the race and his marvellous exploits that kept me interested.

Also, the 2012 Giro is the only Grand Tour I have had the opportunity to experience, since it began here in Denmark and even had a stage start and finish in my hometown. So that will always make it special for me, personally, but notwithstanding that, i don't think it was that bad...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Taking 12-14 Giro and 12-14 Tour, I defo think the Tour wins. These years in the Giro were pretty horrible.

He does, its insanity. Extensive reviews of the likes of Malaysia and other obscure races, I dont think he doesn't anything else. But I don't think that makes his opinion on this matter anymore right than a normal person watching the Giro

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Taking 12-14 Giro and 12-14 Tour, I defo think the Tour wins. These years in the Giro were pretty horrible.

He does, its insanity. Extensive reviews of the likes of Malaysia and other obscure races, I dont think he doesn't anything else. But I don't think that makes his opinion on this matter anymore right than a normal person watching the Giro

Agreed. It also annoys me how he states very many things as facts when they clearly aren't (just like your example). But I can tell you that he is one of the brightest minds in Denmark with the highest average grade in the country when he finished gymnasiet and a subsequent straight-A run to a PhD in mathematics. It's possible that that has made him think quite highly of himself

And regarding the 2012-2014 Giri: I have never really thought of them as being particularly bad. Only the 2014 one because it was decided by a freak-show with a combination of certain riders and lousy commissaires on a stage that shouldn't have counted.

 

[Red Rick]

In '12 the Giro was a slightly disappointing one week race, whereas the Tour was no race at all.
In 2013 both had good routes, but the Tour was over after the first mountain stage, and the Giro seemed like it wasn't but there was never a real battle for the overall either. It was a shame for the race that Evans was so bad and Wiggins was what he was that year. Think it's about equal, though I liked the Giro result more.

For 2014, both were decided in a relatively anticlimactic fashion. Tour saw crashes. Giro har the better battle for the overall most definitely, but to me the cobbled stage was the best of that GT year. Tour had a great race for 2nd place. Think they're pretty equal.

In all 3 years, the Vuelta was definitely the GT that stuck out.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Still rating the Giro lower due to the routes promised much more, except 2014. We knew we we going to have a *** Tour in '12 and we did where as the Giri were just disappointing

But, thankfully, we are back in especially 2015. Here's to hope that the race at least will be as good as 2016 which was a very decent race IMO.

 

[Escarabajo]

Don't get me wrong Netserk. Last year there was only one queen stage (stage 14) and that was fine. Similar to this year (Stage 16). No need to cancel any stage. I just don't want two queen stages and becoming a game of attrition like it has happened in the past. Stage 18 with the altitude changes and short distance should be enough to destroy the group. You make it harder and riders start riding more conservative. I think this Giro's route is fine. I like it. Let's hope for the best.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Still rating the Giro lower due to the routes promised much more, except 2014. We knew we we going to have a **** Tour in '12 and we did where as the Giri were just disappointing

But, thankfully, we are back in especially 2015. Here's to hope that the race at least will be as good as 2016 which was a very decent race IMO.

2012 was probably too backloaded an with the longer ITT on the final stage there was just too much waiting involved.

 

[rhubroma]

Well it's a good thing the descent competition has been cancelled. And allow me to vent on callus Vegni. What a tool. What an embarassment to Italy. He's too stupid and arrogant to get the invective over further incentivating highspeed downhill riding with monetary prizes "to enhance the spectacle," despite a recent Giro in which one of the riders actually died from crashing on a descent.

The descents are where riders are arguably most vulnerable to a fatal accident, however capable, and they are spectacular as such. One thus crosses their fingers everytime they are raced, not award prizes to the fastest times.

 

[Eshnar]

Re:

Well it's a good thing the descent competition has been cancelled. And allow me to vent on callus Vegni. What a tool. What an embarassment to Italy. He's too stupid and arrogant to get the invective over further incentivating highspeed downhill riding with monetary prizes "to enhance the spectacle," despite a recent Giro in which one of the riders actually died from crashing on a descent.

The descents are where riders are arguably most vulnerable to a fatal accident, however capable, and they are spectacular as such. One thus crosses their fingers everytime they are raced, not award prizes to the fastest times.

You know there's already a pretty big prize for descending in the Giro, is called Maglia Rosa and brings also quite a lot more money than the prize they cancelled. Just as an example, the queen stage will end with a difficult and long descent, presumably full of spectators from the previous climb. The winner will win a stage (again, much bigger incentive) and every second will count, going directly to the GC. There are plenty of riders in history who won or lost the overall of the Giro on descents. Furthermore, unlike the prize that got nuked, here every rider will need to participate, or at least every rider interested in the GC (which means money and WT points, don't forget), and also the terrible descenders will be forced to take significant risks if they want to compete.
So yeah, I didn't like the format of the competition so I don't mind that it got scrapped, but I find all this uproar quite hysterical, or at best, a very clear example of tunnel-vision.