2017 Worlds BERGEN, NORWAY, RR ELITE, SUN 24th 277KM!

[portugal11]

Blame the sprinters. They should disappear from the road race and go to the track.

 

[Frankschleck]

Re:

Blame the sprinters. They should disappear from the road race and go to the track.

please be quiet

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It's also what you get when the WC are designed for sprinters who can climb a bit for three years in a row. ...

Doha was had no hills. But otherwise yeah, the WCRR last few years was "classic" style race.

But Belgians, et all doing all of nothing today had something to do with it. Sagan won of luck today, he had one card and played that card well. But that Ala will be caught was anything but certain.

Sure, Sagan got it spot on and it's a great win for him. Personally I think it's a shame that the podium for the biggest race in cycling has been made up for three years in a row now, by guys who were virtually unseen the entire race until the last 3km. This should be cycling's showpiece event - but it's been way more tedious than most monuments for four years now because of crap courses.

I don't understand why you don't count Kwiatkowski's win in 2014 in that collection of world championships. Do you think that there's a huge difference between a race where the deciding attack comes with 3.5km to go and one where it's 7km to go?

You could certainly add that to the list if you like. The only difference for me is that I think the Ponferrada course, with the longer climb, gave chances to the Ardennes specialists, it was a bit more balanced. They were just too passive and didn't make the race hard enough early on. So the race and result was a bit dull, but it wasn't so inevitable. The hilly one day specialists have had pretty much no chance on the courses in these last three years.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

It's also what you get when the WC are designed for sprinters who can climb a bit for three years in a row. ...

Doha was had no hills. But otherwise yeah, the WCRR last few years was "classic" style race.

But Belgians, et all doing all of nothing today had something to do with it. Sagan won of luck today, he had one card and played that card well. But that Ala will be caught was anything but certain.

Sure, Sagan got it spot on and it's a great win for him. Personally I think it's a shame that the podium for the biggest race in cycling has been made up for three years in a row now, by guys who were virtually unseen the entire race until the last 3km. This should be cycling's showpiece event - but it's been way more tedious than most monuments for four years now because of crap courses.

I don't understand why you don't count Kwiatkowski's win in 2014 in that collection of world championships. Do you think that there's a huge difference between a race where the deciding attack comes with 3.5km to go and one where it's 7km to go?

Kwia's win was the best since Evans in 2009.

What and rui costa???

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

The Sagan hate is hilarious... He's one of the most attacking, exciting riders all year, but by all means keep complaining that he doesn't deserve it.

Surely no-one is saying that Sagan is an undeserving winner. Just that it would have been a lot more fun to see him win the jersey on a more selective course - like RVV or Strade Bianche - than in a bunch sprint for the second year in a row.

The ones calling him a wheelsucker surely are.

That's what anyones says when they think that a rider doesn't deserve to win.

Oh right, I took it more as a criticism of the course - that a rider could win without doing anything until the final km. If that's a criticism of Sagan then it's completely ridiculous - all attacking would have done is thrown away any chances on that course.

Exactly. That's why it bothers me so much to call Sagan, or anyone else a wheelsucker when a rider wins.

 

[alspacka]

Re: Re:

I guess nobody cares all that much what you're saying.

So what? I'm free to say whatever I want s long as it fit with the rules of the forum. Put on ignore if you don't like my posts.

Love to, how do I go about that?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

It's also what you get when the WC are designed for sprinters who can climb a bit for three years in a row. ...

Doha was had no hills. But otherwise yeah, the WCRR last few years was "classic" style race.

But Belgians, et all doing all of nothing today had something to do with it. Sagan won of luck today, he had one card and played that card well. But that Ala will be caught was anything but certain.

Sure, Sagan got it spot on and it's a great win for him. Personally I think it's a shame that the podium for the biggest race in cycling has been made up for three years in a row now, by guys who were virtually unseen the entire race until the last 3km. This should be cycling's showpiece event - but it's been way more tedious than most monuments for four years now because of crap courses.

I don't understand why you don't count Kwiatkowski's win in 2014 in that collection of world championships. Do you think that there's a huge difference between a race where the deciding attack comes with 3.5km to go and one where it's 7km to go?

Kwia's win was the best since Evans in 2009.

Well alright then. Then that is now officially settled, no arguments will ever be needed to explain why

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

what happened to Gavaria? Is he really a 2nd/3rd tier sprinter?

Needs to develop further for >250km, I guess

This is what I wanted to say, yeah.

Still impressive he was even there

 

[Blanco]

Re:

I think it's time the WC was valued less than the other monuments. Certainly lower than PR , RVV or LBL. It's basically been an easy version of Milan Sanremo these last few years. Kudos to Sagan for winning, but the fact that he can still put out such a strong sprint compared with the other monuments, shows how relatively easy it has become.

WC should always be valued higher, no matter how hard the race was. You will get a hard race next year.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Oh right, I took it more as a criticism of the course - that a rider could win without doing anything until the final km. If that's a criticism of Sagan then it's completely ridiculous - all attacking would have done is thrown away any chances on that course.

Exactly. That's why it bothers me so much to call Sagan, or anyone else a wheelsucker when a rider wins.

Agreed. The winner should always be exempt from the wheelsucking tag. If anyone should be labelled like that, it should be the riders who were too passive and still didn't win - although on a course like that it was fair enough from all the favourites I think.

 

[Asero831]

Who are the teams that chased in the last 8kms?

 

[Frankschleck]

Re:

Who are the teams that chased in the last 8kms?

denmark

 

[saganftw]

Sagan attacks and doesnt win - he does too much,look at gva how smart he is

Sagan doesnt attack and win - wheelsucking,gerrans 2.0

some of you really enjoy that cognitive dissonance dont you?

 

[kingjr]

I enjoyed the race, but then again, i enjoy almost every bike race.

About Gaviria, don't forget that his preparation was probably less than ideal.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Aside from all the polemic Sagan business, is there anyone who doesn't love Alaphilippe? I've yet to meet them

I cant say I do.....I am kinda indifferent to him...He is a good rider but meh ..He is no Sagan, Valverde,Nibali, Contaodr or even Kwaito ...He is no Froome or Cancellera or Gilbert or Cavandish or Greipel. He is no Doumulin or Kiry or Pinot .....you get my drift

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

Agreed. The winner should always be exempt from the wheelsucking tag.

Why?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Aside from all the polemic Sagan business, is there anyone who doesn't love Alaphilippe? I've yet to meet them

I cant say I do.....I am kinda indifferent to him...He is a good rider but meh ..He is no Sagan, Valverde,Nibali, Contaodr or even Kwaito ...He is no Froome or Cancellera or Gilbert or Cavandish or Greipel. He is no Doumulin or Kiry or Pinot .....you get my drift

Agreed

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think it's time the WC was valued less than the other monuments. Certainly lower than PR , RVV or LBL. It's basically been an easy version of Milan Sanremo these last few years. Kudos to Sagan for winning, but the fact that he can still put out such a strong sprint compared with the other monuments, shows how relatively easy it has become.

WC should always be valued higher, no matter how hard the race was. You will get a hard race next year.

I don't want a stupidly hard race like next years. The WC should aim to find the best one day racer imo - so it should always give chances somewhere to all the one day specialists.

I want to see the likes of Sagan, GVA, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Matthews, Kwiatkowski, Martin and others all battling each other on a course which offers something for everyone. Not a bunch sprint or a ridiculously steep climb deciding the race.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Aside from all the polemic Sagan business, is there anyone who doesn't love Alaphilippe? I've yet to meet them

I cant say I do.....I am kinda indifferent to him...He is a good rider but meh ..He is no Sagan, Valverde,Nibali, Contaodr or even Kwaito ...He is no Froome or Cancellera or Gilbert or Cavandish or Greipel. He is no Doumulin or Kiry or Pinot .....you get my drift

I get it, you only like easy rides on winning bandwagons.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I think it's time the WC was valued less than the other monuments. Certainly lower than PR , RVV or LBL. It's basically been an easy version of Milan Sanremo these last few years. Kudos to Sagan for winning, but the fact that he can still put out such a strong sprint compared with the other monuments, shows how relatively easy it has become.

WC should always be valued higher, no matter how hard the race was. You will get a hard race next year.

I don't want a stupidly hard race like next years. The WC should aim to find the best one day racer imo - so it should always give chances somewhere to all the one day specialists.

I want to see the likes of Sagan, GVA, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Matthews, Kwiatkowski, Martin and others all battling each other on a course which offers something for everyone. Not a bunch sprint or a ridiculously steep climb deciding the race.

Problem is that apart from the Flemish classics and maybe CSS finds the best racer. It's all reduced bunch sprints or uphill sprints.

 

[GraftPunk]

I'm starting to think a shorter distance on a more selective course would shake things up. The six hours of riding seems to stifle proper racing, and for the last few years is simple attrition.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Agreed. The winner should always be exempt from the wheelsucking tag.

Why?

Because winning justifies whatever tactic a rider decided to use.

 

[saganftw]

Re:

I'm starting to think a shorter distance on a more selective course would shake things up. The six hours of riding seems to stifle proper racing, and for the last few years is simple attrition.

how about give teams equal number of riders? how about cap the number at 5 for everyone?

 

[yaco]

Great to see the two MOST talented young riders in Moscon and Alaphalippe light up the race - Fleche Wallone beckons for Alaphalippe, while PR beckons for Moscon.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think it's time the WC was valued less than the other monuments. Certainly lower than PR , RVV or LBL. It's basically been an easy version of Milan Sanremo these last few years. Kudos to Sagan for winning, but the fact that he can still put out such a strong sprint compared with the other monuments, shows how relatively easy it has become.

WC should always be valued higher, no matter how hard the race was. You will get a hard race next year.

I don't want a stupidly hard race like next years. The WC should aim to find the best one day racer imo - so it should always give chances somewhere to all the one day specialists.

I want to see the likes of Sagan, GVA, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Matthews, Kwiatkowski, Martin and others all battling each other on a course which offers something for everyone. Not a bunch sprint or a ridiculously steep climb deciding the race.

Problem is that apart from the Flemish classics and maybe CSS finds the best racer. It's all reduced bunch sprints or uphill sprints.

True. But I think a profile something similar to Strade Bianche, even without the gravel, but with WC distance and maybe with an easier final climb could work well. Or the Rio Olympic course with a slightly easier final climb - that was great.

edit. Also I don't agree that most big one day races end in bunch sprints or uphill sprints. Lombardia doesn't, SB doesn't, Amstel didn't on this new course. Only MSR, FW and LBL have done in recent years.