Giro d'Italia 2022 Giro d'Italia, Stage 21: Verona – Verona 17.4 km ITT (Sunday, May 29th)

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Terrible route, boring race, great winner.
I really like Hindley and if anything I feel he was let down by the route design and it's overshadowing his performance (not that he'll care, as he shouldn't).
Otherwise this Giro was carried (especially in the first two weeks) by decent breakaway and sprint action, that's about it.

 

[samhocking]

Carapaz and his entourage failed to understand that Hindley is better than him, they rode the entire Giro with an air of superiority. The consequence was that on the fatal stage he was convinced he can better Hindley mano a mano. This is the result.

I'm pretty sure they fully-understood Hindley was at Carapaz & Landa level everytime Carapaz attacked and he was still there at the end of the stage to be honest. The stage finishes this year I think did compress the race strategy between Bora, Bahrain & Ineos somewhat and everyone was saying the racing was on the limit and there was nothing much more to do than hang on and not lose time. The GC race was almsot entirely about who went backwards rather than forwards and yesterday was no different really for Landa & Carapaz both losing time to Hindley. Maybe a bit of underestimation how much Hindley has improved since joining Bora perhaps, but you're not going to change that in the middle of a race, Hindley the strongest, chapeu to him.

 

[ice&fire]

I don't say that to *** on Hindley. But the field was decent and quite deep but it really fell off. Carapaz is rated highly so that will help Hindleys case

Going recursive, does that help Tao's case, then?

 

[Sciatic]

I'm pretty sure they fully-understood Hindley was at Carapaz & Landa level everytime Carapaz attacked and he was still there at the end of the stage to be honest. The stage finishes this year I think did compress the race strategy between Bora, Bahrain & Ineos somewhat and everyone was saying the racing was on the limit and there was nothing much more to do than hang on and not lose time. The GC race was almsot entirely about who went backwards rather than forwards and yesterday was no different really for Landa & Carapaz both losing time to Hindley. Maybe a bit of underestimation how much Hindley has improved since joining Bora perhaps, but you're not going to change that in the middle of a race, Hindley the strongest, chapeu to him.

I think if they really considered Hindley to be their equal (or their better) then Landa, Bardet, and Carapaz would certainly have worked together to put more time into he and Almeida when they were dropped on Blockhaus. How much time is unclear. We can wonder too how much time Hindley might have lost if he didn’t have Almeida to drag him back to that front group.

 

[Red Rick]

Going recursive, does that help Tao's case, then?

Only Tao can save Tao from being a fluke winner.

 

[samhocking]

Only Tao can save Tao from being a fluke winner.

Who was the last fluke winner of Giro before Tao?

 

[RedheadDane]

Who was the last fluke winner of Giro before Tao?

Hesjedal?

 

[ice&fire]

Who was the last fluke winner of Giro before Tao?

He was helped by Nibs and Rogs.

 

[StryderHells]

Hesjedal?

Hesjadal had already finished 6th at the 2010 Tour before his Giro win.

 

[samhocking]

Hesjedal?

Sounds like you have to be anglo-speaking or be from an anglo-speaking team to win by a fluke? Who's the rider before Hesjedal?

 

[Breh]

 

[EvoPL]

Soooo...am I wrong or top three in GC share one stage win this year? Guess it pretty much sums up this year's edition. Even "fluke" Tao won two stages.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Looking at today's result I'm even more convinced that not bringing Sobrero to the hilly Olympic ITT after he won the Italian NC was a mistake.
I doubt that he would have been worse than Ganna, who did lots of track specific work and still finished 5th, 2 sec behind the podium. Sobrero was another guy who could have been fighting for a medal.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sounds like you have to be anglo-speaking or be from an anglo-speaking team to win by a fluke? Who's the rider before Hesjedal?

Gotti '99.

David Arroyo in 2010 was pretty close too.

Hesjedal is a fluke though. He had one GT top 10, which was one of those lower end top 10s that are often picked up by being 'best of the rest', so he wasn't really taken seriously by the Bassos, Scarponis and Rodríguezes of this world as a serious contender until it was too late. Hesjedal tended to ride himself into form as the race went on, Scarponi even admitted that they had at one point in an earlier stage in the race seen him struggling at the back of the group and expected him to drop, and so hadn't capitalised by gaining time on him as they then focused on other contenders they had perceived as more dangerous, and by the time the last week came around Hesjedal was strong enough to follow everything. He also had the benefit of Peter Stetina having his career best form as a domestique as well, his contribution to that race win is underrated I feel.

However, Hesjedal had never looked like podiuming a GT before that and he never looked like podiuming one again. That cannot be said of Jai Hindley.

 

[ice&fire]

Gotti '99.

David Arroyo in 2010 was pretty close too.

Hesjedal is a fluke though. He had one GT top 10, which was one of those lower end top 10s that are often picked up by being 'best of the rest', so he wasn't really taken seriously by the Bassos, Scarponis and Rodríguezes of this world as a serious contender until it was too late. Hesjedal tended to ride himself into form as the race went on, Scarponi even admitted that they had at one point in an earlier stage in the race seen him struggling at the back of the group and expected him to drop, and so hadn't capitalised by gaining time on him as they then focused on other contenders they had perceived as more dangerous, and by the time the last week came around Hesjedal was strong enough to follow everything. He also had the benefit of Peter Stetina having his career best form as a domestique as well, his contribution to that race win is underrated I feel.

However, Hesjedal had never looked like podiuming a GT before that and he never looked like podiuming one again. That cannot be said of Jai Hindley.

Gotti must be the only rider in the world to have two Giro fluke wins, then.

 

[Red Rick]

Boys how are we forgetting Chris Horner?

 

[RedheadDane]

Boys how are we forgetting Chris Horner?

By the fact that we're discussing Giro fluke wins.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Boys how are we forgetting Chris Horner?

Oh, come on. He beat peak Lo Squalo. He was just entering his prime after turning 40. The Grandpa would kick the Slovenians' as**s if he wanted but luckily for them he prefers commenting cycling from home.

 

[Salvarani]

There were plenty of good stages and exciting racing in many stages. Cant expect every stage to be fireworks. It is an endurance test.

There were a lot of riders coming to life during this race. Older ones showing great form and a few breakthroughs by younger riders. I thought that was great.

I think a lot of people puts up unrealistic expectations before most GTs. Feels like more times than not people are left "disappointed" about how the race turned out. Mainly because things didnt happen the way they had dreamed about. I feel like this is how many people feel after many of the GTs. Which is peculiar to me. Since a lot of people here are very knowledgable and have seen so many races. Should know more how it usually goes, but seem to fall into the same trap again and again. Other times when a rider is too dominant or things has actually happened in spectacular ways, they complain about that. There is always gonna be some moaning, no matter what. It is better to just try and enjoy it for what it is, or just dont watch if it makes you that frustrated.

This race was "boring" but we had three riders that all could win it going into the penultimate stage... that rarely happens.

Only complaint I have is that one of the TTs should have been above or around 30km. There should be a minimum amount of at least 50km every GT imo. I think one short/prologue and a longer one is ideal.

 

[Escarabajo]

Maybe same 1-2 result but having Yates, Bardet, Lopez, Almeida and Dumoulin in good shape for the full 3 weeks would have changed the dynamics of the race. Ofc I couldn't say exactly what might have been...but surely Bardet, Yates and Lopez would have made a difference on the Dolomites stages if they'd been in the mix. And we don't know when Almeida contracted covid.

I won't say this was a weak field -- the lineup before the start looked really strong, but illness/bad form decimated the list of potential Top 5 GC men.

Chapeau to Hindley -- at no point did he not look as strong or stronger than Carapaz.

Now the question is whether Bora/Hindley can podium/win a Tour. He seems to have all the skills minus perhaps a long TT (but that can be somewhat fixed so it's not a liability)

I agree with you. But we have to face the reality that it is always going to happen in a 3 week race. You can only beat who you have in the race. ATM, from those five I can argue that only one might break the 1-2. And that is a big if now. Because they all have question marks in their performances.

And as to the race, yes it was boring. And having more contenders would have helped. But the winner is a worthy winner.

 

[Escarabajo]

I haven't seen any GT in the last 10 years were people, after the race was won by somebody they did not expect, claim it was a weak field.

Plz. Stop.

I think the best one was the 2019 Vuelta.

 

[Netserk]

There were plenty of good stages and exciting racing in many stages. Cant expect every stage to be fireworks. It is an endurance test.

There were a lot of riders coming to life during this race. Older ones showing great form and a few breakthroughs by younger riders. I thought that was great.

I think a lot of people puts up unrealistic expectations before most GTs. Feels like more times than not people are left "disappointed" about how the race turned out. Mainly because things didnt happen the way they had dreamed about. I feel like this is how many people feel after many of the GTs. Which is peculiar to me. Since a lot of people here are very knowledgable and have seen so many races. Should know more how it usually goes, but seem to fall into the same trap again and again. Other times when a rider is too dominant or things has actually happened in spectacular ways, they complain about that. There is always gonna be some moaning, no matter what. It is better to just try and enjoy it for what it is, or just dont watch if it makes you that frustrated.

This race was "boring" but we had three riders that all could win it going into the penultimate stage... that rarely happens.

Only complaint I have is that one of the TTs should have been above or around 30km. There should be a minimum amount of at least 50km every GT imo. I think one short/prologue and a longer one is ideal.

That's why I don't judge it against an ideal. I judge it against actual Giri. I wrote it yesterday too, it's the perfect storm of route, riders and misfortune.

It was the worst Giro I have seen. Far worse than the average actual Giro, not some fantasy of what I would have liked. 2012 and 2014 were bad too, and maybe I will temper my judgement in a couple of weeks, but I doubt it.

Do you disagree? Even if you think all Giri are somewhat good, there's an order and therefore a worst one.

 

[Escarabajo]

So according to you, Hindley is now 2nd best GC rider in the world? Makes sense.

I did not say that. To me, ATM, there is only one rider head and shoulders above everyone else. Below there is a big group with similar chances. Rogla, is having some issues this year. JV and other fans are giving their reasons. Have it your way. But there are a large group of contenders when Pogacar does not show up to a 3 week race IMHO.

How you come up to the conclusion you made with what I wrote is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Salvarani]

That's why I don't judge it against an ideal. I judge it against actual Giri. I wrote it yesterday too, it's the perfect storm of route, riders and misfortune.

It was the worst Giro I have seen. Far worse than the average actual Giro, not some fantasy of what I would have liked. 2012 and 2014 were bad too, and maybe I will temper my judgement in a couple of weeks, but I doubt it.

Do you disagree? Even if you think all Giri are somewhat good, there's an order and therefore a worst one.

It is obvious I disagree and I just explained why in my post towards these type of criticisms.

I also think when you start comparing to other editions of a race you get lost.

 

[ice&fire]

Is there a ban on opening the "Rate the 2022 Giro" thread and I've missed it?