- Jun 24, 2013
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- Apr 30, 2011
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This is the Flemish classics, real races. The nice group rides are in July.
Moving others out of your way is completely fair, as long as you are not really endangering them (and no, I don't think Tommeke did anything wrong when Boom crashed at the start of Taaienberg in Omloop '12).
From what I saw, Sagan just moved him to open a window for himself. He didn't really endanger or compromise the other rider.
Moving others out of your way is completely fair, as long as you are not really endangering them (and no, I don't think Tommeke did anything wrong when Boom crashed at the start of Taaienberg in Omloop '12).
From what I saw, Sagan just moved him to open a window for himself. He didn't really endanger or compromise the other rider.
Re:
Butbut Sagan should have been DSQ'ed according to some posters in here!
Billie said:This Veranclassic guy must have been on his bike in a hurry again cause he was around 15th right in Boonen's wheel halfway up the Kemmel
Butbut Sagan should have been DSQ'ed according to some posters in here!
- Nov 16, 2013
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It did seem very aggressive though. More than what I have seen others do. But it is very limited footage and I am prepared to give Sagan the benefit of the doubt, especially as he has no "priors" like Terpstra.
I don't know why he was so poorly positioned though and if he hadn't been that, maybe he and Greg would have had a nice gap on the top and the rest of the race could have looked different.
Netserk said:
It did seem very aggressive though. More than what I have seen others do. But it is very limited footage and I am prepared to give Sagan the benefit of the doubt, especially as he has no "priors" like Terpstra.
I don't know why he was so poorly positioned though and if he hadn't been that, maybe he and Greg would have had a nice gap on the top and the rest of the race could have looked different.
- Aug 3, 2015
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Bad jokes aside, there was, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to 'remove' the guy. He wasn't really in his way. It reeks of frustration and it just so happened a random pro conti rider was the scapegoat for the bad positioning or whatever he was frustrated about. Also, if he indeed didn't crash, it just shows what artists cyclists are.
Deliberate and without reason. I don't get how ppl can defend it and say stuff like it wasn't intentional or this is a real man's race. Definitely over the line. I guess you have to be huge Sagan fans as you and BigMac.
Sagan could have shot him and you would probably still have defended him. It probably showed that Sagan was a real man.Netserk said:
Bad jokes aside, there was, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to 'remove' the guy. He wasn't really in his way. It reeks of frustration and it just so happened a random pro conti rider was the scapegoat for the bad positioning or whatever he was frustrated about. Also, if he indeed didn't crash, it just shows what artists cyclists are.
Deliberate and without reason. I don't get how ppl can defend it and say stuff like it wasn't intentional or this is a real man's race. Definitely over the line. I guess you have to be huge Sagan fans as you and BigMac.
Re: Re:
He was forced off the road in the crash that took Tony Martin down and was still playing catch-up.
tobydawq said:
He was forced off the road in the crash that took Tony Martin down and was still playing catch-up.
- Apr 30, 2011
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I could come up with some lame strawman about how your own crash clouds your opinion or that you yourself are biased, but none of that matters. Only facts and the arguments based on them do.
It's pretty obvious from the video that he needed space to move forward. At first he moves him to the side, then the other rider probably leans back before Sagan gives him a shoulder to save himself and the window. I don't see what this has to do with the fact that I like Sagan as a rider, I think I'm quite consistent regarding this.Valv.Piti said:Sagan could have shot him and you would probably still have defended him. It probably showed that Sagan was a real man.Netserk said:
Bad jokes aside, there was, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to 'remove' the guy. He wasn't really in his way. It reeks of frustration and it just so happened a random pro conti rider was the scapegoat for the bad positioning or whatever he was frustrated about. Also, if he indeed didn't crash, it just shows what artists cyclists are.
Deliberate and without reason. I don't get how ppl can defend it and say stuff like it wasn't intentional or this is a real man's race. Definitely over the line. I guess you have to be huge Sagan fans as you and BigMac.
I could come up with some lame strawman about how your own crash clouds your opinion or that you yourself are biased, but none of that matters. Only facts and the arguments based on them do.
Just got home and watched the race ... didn’t read the comments but the funniest part was when Sagan's group was closing the gap all the way down to 8', then the camera bike gets right in front of GVA and all of the sudden, minute later, they have 18 seconds gap while the Sagan's trio is working hard and trading pulls.
Well, the Belgians got their winner, what the joke this race was.
BTW what happen to the new rule that no motorbikes in last few kms?
Well, the Belgians got their winner, what the joke this race was.
BTW what happen to the new rule that no motorbikes in last few kms?
- Jun 27, 2013
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I don't see where the space to move forward opens up even after bodychecking the other rider. Sagan still moved up on the right side of the group after bumping a rider to the left of him. Totally unnecessary and totally contradicts your claim that he needed to do this to move up.
Netserk said:It's pretty obvious from the video that he needed space to move forward. At first he moves him to the side, then the other rider probably leans back before Sagan gives him a shoulder to save himself and the window. I don't see what this has to do with the fact that I like Sagan as a rider, I think I'm quite consistent regarding this.Valv.Piti said:Sagan could have shot him and you would probably still have defended him. It probably showed that Sagan was a real man.Netserk said:
Bad jokes aside, there was, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to 'remove' the guy. He wasn't really in his way. It reeks of frustration and it just so happened a random pro conti rider was the scapegoat for the bad positioning or whatever he was frustrated about. Also, if he indeed didn't crash, it just shows what artists cyclists are.
Deliberate and without reason. I don't get how ppl can defend it and say stuff like it wasn't intentional or this is a real man's race. Definitely over the line. I guess you have to be huge Sagan fans as you and BigMac.
I could come up with some lame strawman about how your own crash clouds your opinion or that you yourself are biased, but none of that matters. Only facts and the arguments based on them do.
I don't see where the space to move forward opens up even after bodychecking the other rider. Sagan still moved up on the right side of the group after bumping a rider to the left of him. Totally unnecessary and totally contradicts your claim that he needed to do this to move up.
- Nov 16, 2013
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I have to agree. It was really strange how three good time trialists were not making any inroads (I know TT skills are not that important in finales of 250 km races but still) and how the producers needed to show is their backs while GvA and Keukeleire had the chance to smile to the cameras.
However, it is also possible that they went all out behind and got the gap down to eight seconds after which they faded a little.
Jancouver said:
I have to agree. It was really strange how three good time trialists were not making any inroads (I know TT skills are not that important in finales of 250 km races but still) and how the producers needed to show is their backs while GvA and Keukeleire had the chance to smile to the cameras.
However, it is also possible that they went all out behind and got the gap down to eight seconds after which they faded a little.
- Aug 3, 2015
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I repeat: totally unnecessary and most definitely intentional.
So he bumps the rider on the left, yet still moves up in the group on the right? Man, look at the video. Its obvious he doesn't bump the rider because he needs space. Its a a in the heat of a moment action, most likely sparked by some sort of frustration.Netserk said:It's pretty obvious from the video that he needed space to move forward. At first he moves him to the side, then the other rider probably leans back before Sagan gives him a shoulder to save himself and the window. I don't see what this has to do with the fact that I like Sagan as a rider, I think I'm quite consistent regarding this.Valv.Piti said:Sagan could have shot him and you would probably still have defended him. It probably showed that Sagan was a real man.Netserk said:
Bad jokes aside, there was, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to 'remove' the guy. He wasn't really in his way. It reeks of frustration and it just so happened a random pro conti rider was the scapegoat for the bad positioning or whatever he was frustrated about. Also, if he indeed didn't crash, it just shows what artists cyclists are.
Deliberate and without reason. I don't get how ppl can defend it and say stuff like it wasn't intentional or this is a real man's race. Definitely over the line. I guess you have to be huge Sagan fans as you and BigMac.
I could come up with some lame strawman about how your own crash clouds your opinion or that you yourself are biased, but none of that matters. Only facts and the arguments based on them do.
I repeat: totally unnecessary and most definitely intentional.
- Aug 3, 2015
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I think more people would be mad if we were to reverse the order and Sagan actually had crashed due to such a inappropriate manoeuvre. That guy would have gotten a rough time. Yet, it seems many really don't care that much because Sagan is amazing etc.
- Apr 16, 2009
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To my eyes it was clearly aggressive, an angry outburst, and maybe arrogant to a lesser rider...but hardly a big deal. It happens in racing. They're not playing billiards.
A bit rough and tumble is okay, it's a battle and all part of the fun.
Be very unusual for a racing cyclist to crash from that. They were going slow. It was a minor incident.
(And female riders do this stuff too, it's not a macho thing)
A bit rough and tumble is okay, it's a battle and all part of the fun.
Be very unusual for a racing cyclist to crash from that. They were going slow. It was a minor incident.
(And female riders do this stuff too, it's not a macho thing)
Re: Re:
It's actually after the MSR finish, not GW.
Here is the longer version: http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/17455874_1738932786419160_1247089358356348928_n.mp4
tobydawq said:
It's actually after the MSR finish, not GW.
Here is the longer version: http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/17455874_1738932786419160_1247089358356348928_n.mp4
- Jul 6, 2016
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Watching the Kemmelberg incident in slow motion in HD again, it looks like Sagan is trying to squeeze between two riders. The rider to his left could have moved further over to the left but wasn't. Sagan's sudden movement... I can't tell if it was due to needing to suddenly evade the rider to his right to avoid a crash... or a frustration due to merely being uncomfortably close to the rider and being held up between them. I think mostly the latter... not sure.
Whoever that was on his left was being stupid IMO. Sagan put his hand on his back gently, which was properly telling him to move further over to the left. The rider ignored him and that frustrated Sagan.
Anyway... The Anderson situation seemed like an example of a rider having to blindly follow DS instructions without any room for making an exception judgment call. Either due to having a dumb stubborn DS or inability of the rider to think for themselves?
He's the one who created the gap in the first place. There wasn't any attack. He just slowed down waiting for Terpstra and gifted it to the front two.
Criticized by who though? Those who work for pro teams or random people on the internet? No offense to ourselves but this forum doesn't count. What you say contradicts the Sagan fanboys here who were saying that Sagan didn't really care much about Milan San Remo :lol: and that he only really cares about RVV and PR. I'm not saying you're wrong ... just that I wonder how he and other top riders really feel.
Sagan keeps failing tactically this season. He could brute force a monument or two this season.., his physical talents are so great. But I don't think it's likely, in light of his mistakes so far. Maybe he was sore from the E3 crash today.
Watching the Kemmelberg incident in slow motion in HD again, it looks like Sagan is trying to squeeze between two riders. The rider to his left could have moved further over to the left but wasn't. Sagan's sudden movement... I can't tell if it was due to needing to suddenly evade the rider to his right to avoid a crash... or a frustration due to merely being uncomfortably close to the rider and being held up between them. I think mostly the latter... not sure.
Whoever that was on his left was being stupid IMO. Sagan put his hand on his back gently, which was properly telling him to move further over to the left. The rider ignored him and that frustrated Sagan.
Anyway... The Anderson situation seemed like an example of a rider having to blindly follow DS instructions without any room for making an exception judgment call. Either due to having a dumb stubborn DS or inability of the rider to think for themselves?
Irondan said:
He's the one who created the gap in the first place. There wasn't any attack. He just slowed down waiting for Terpstra and gifted it to the front two.jaylew said:
Criticized by who though? Those who work for pro teams or random people on the internet? No offense to ourselves but this forum doesn't count. What you say contradicts the Sagan fanboys here who were saying that Sagan didn't really care much about Milan San Remo :lol: and that he only really cares about RVV and PR. I'm not saying you're wrong ... just that I wonder how he and other top riders really feel.
Sagan keeps failing tactically this season. He could brute force a monument or two this season.., his physical talents are so great. But I don't think it's likely, in light of his mistakes so far. Maybe he was sore from the E3 crash today.
- May 17, 2013
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Not that I want to be controversial, but imagine if it wasn't Sagan but Nacer doing that. Remember the outcry when his train "waved" Katusha out of the way last year? In the Catalunya thread, I raised what I see as a major issue: some teams or riders are more likely to get away with breaking the rules. Nothing new: Michael Jordan hardly ever got called for travelling, et caetera...but at least in cycling, there's more time for the officials to rule. Or rule twice as in Catalunya .
Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...
. Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...
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