79th Gent-Wevelgem, 26th March 2017, 249 km, 1.UWT

[KGB]

Re: Re:

This is the Flemish classics, real races. The nice group rides are in July.

Moving others out of your way is completely fair, as long as you are not really endangering them (and no, I don't think Tommeke did anything wrong when Boom crashed at the start of Taaienberg in Omloop '12).

From what I saw, Sagan just moved him to open a window for himself. He didn't really endanger or compromise the other rider.

It did seem very aggressive though. More than what I have seen others do. But it is very limited footage and I am prepared to give Sagan the benefit of the doubt, especially as he has no "priors" like Terpstra.

I don't know why he was so poorly positioned though and if he hadn't been that, maybe he and Greg would have had a nice gap on the top and the rest of the race could have looked different.

Well Sagan was before that almost in crash(T.Martin crash) which slow him down and was at the back of group before last berg.That why he was really bad positioned and probably that's why he bodycheck rider.He saw GVA attack and another thre etixx riders so he was very frustrated didn't see space to move up and worried GVA will be gone.Just my view.

 

[SKSemtex]

I had a feeling this was comming sooner or later. Especially after all those speaches of winners, how smart they are and how they can beat him in the sprint. Unfortunately he picked up the wrong spot for sending the message.
Now I am pretty sure that Vanmarce could have won in Omloop if he attacked. I always thought it would be by stopping his turns and letting peloton to catch the breakaway and trying to win from the bunch sprint.
In the same time I hoped so much that Sagan was much greater professional then I thoght he was and he would not do it. Message was sent but the wrong one. Everybody knows now how vulnerable he is and they will keep doing the same thing over and over again. They know that behind the smile mask was huge frustration last weeks.
If he wanted to send the massage he could close the gap and have stopped doing his turnes and see what happen. Now he looks like an idiot. I would love to see him tested himself against the sprinters like Gav, Degenkolb, Kristoff, Mathews after a hard race. He will have his last chance in first stage of dePanne race before P-R.
Nevermind . Great race. Well deserved winner. Ronde should be fan.

 

[shalgo]

My read of the Sagan/Terpstra incident is that Sagan had just finished taking a pull and was drifting to the back of the group, Rather than letting Sagan go to the back, however, Terpstra slowed down and try to force Sagan to go third in the line, ahead of him. Perhaps Terpstra had received team orders to the stop pulling. Whatever the reason, they then exchanged words while continuing to slow down; by then the gap had been established. I can understand Sagan's frustration, but I can also understand Quickstep telling Terpstra not to work; they had numbers behind and he was never going to win a sprint from that group. Why Terpstra started working after that is a mystery, however.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Just got home and watched the race ... didn’t read the comments but the funniest part was when Sagan's group was closing the gap all the way down to 8', then the camera bike gets right in front of GVA and all of the sudden, minute later, they have 18 seconds gap while the Sagan's trio is working hard and trading pulls.

If you really saw the race, you would know that's not exactly how it went. The gap with the main peloton was coming down the whole time. GVA and Keukeleire didn't really accelerate, the 3 were just finished.

By the way: did you spot that the three got their team car to their left (wind came from left) 3 times during the chase?

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Re:

My read of the Sagan/Terpstra incident is that Sagan had just finished taking a pull and was drifting to the back of the group, Rather than letting Sagan go to the back, however, Terpstra slowed down and try to force Sagan to go third in the line, ahead of him. Perhaps Terpstra had received team orders to the stop pulling. Whatever the reason, they then exchanged words while continuing to slow down; by then the gap had been established. I can understand Sagan's frustration, but I can also understand Quickstep telling Terpstra not to work; they had numbers behind and he was never going to win a sprint from that group. Why Terpstra started working after that is a mystery, however.

saw it like that too but while i understand Terpstra not working in the front group made no sense not to work in the middle..?!..
I mean, either stayed with the break or help your sprinters. He did neither...

 

[SafeBet]

Sagan messed up. But QS was back to pathetic racing once again after great performances in DDV and E3. You've got a man in the front group, two in the chasing group and the best sprinter in the peloton. And nobody's working. I'm happy they got nothing out of this race.

I hope Phil Gil is riding the Ronde.

 

[wayahead]

Message was sent but the wrong one. Everybody knows now how vulnerable he is and they will keep doing the same thing over and over again.

It's quite likely he will cool down by Sunday, it's all he needs. And he has new cards to play - GVA's overconfidence ("On the Kemmelberg it was clear that I was a level above the others" - ?), Quick-Step panicking... he is not the only one sending messages, even wrong ones.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Sagan messed up. But QS was back to pathetic racing once again after great performances in DDV and E3. You've got a man in the front group, two in the chasing group and the best sprinter in the peloton. And nobody's working. I'm happy they got nothing out of this race.

I hope Phil Gil is riding the Ronde.

If I was a DS, I'd much prefer a solid team with one clear option + one clear plan b (say like Katusha with Kristoff and Martin), rather then a team of champions and endless avenues to victory. How many big races have QS stuffed up in the last year or two? It's ridiculous. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

It should be all in for Gilbert at RVV, and all in for Boonen at PR.

 

[SKSemtex]

Message was sent but the wrong one. Everybody knows now how vulnerable he is and they will keep doing the same thing over and over again.

It's quite likely he will cool down by Sunday, it's all he needs. And he has new cards to play - GVA's overconfidence ("On the Kemmelberg it was clear that I was a level above the others" - ?), Quick-Step panicking... he is not the only one sending messages, even wrong ones.

Yes. He can play with GVA cards. It is no shame to wheelsuck with "the strongest" rider.

 

[tobydawq]

Message was sent but the wrong one. Everybody knows now how vulnerable he is and they will keep doing the same thing over and over again.

It's quite likely he will cool down by Sunday, it's all he needs. And he has new cards to play - GVA's overconfidence ("On the Kemmelberg it was clear that I was a level above the others" - ?), Quick-Step panicking... he is not the only one sending messages, even wrong ones.

Did he actually say that? That's hilarious. I think Sagan was five-six seconds down mid-climb and then caught him when they were both going flat out.

I think he has been allowed to benefit way too much from the other riders' constant looking at Sagan this weekend. And surely, he needs to be as much a marked man as Sagan come next Sunday where Sagan hopefully will prove who is really the strongest (as if there was any doubt).

 

[RedheadDane]

And now for a more happy story from the race.

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/extra/opvallend/1.2934579


I know the article is in Dutch, but I think the important bits are understandable.

 

[wayahead]

Message was sent but the wrong one. Everybody knows now how vulnerable he is and they will keep doing the same thing over and over again.

It's quite likely he will cool down by Sunday, it's all he needs. And he has new cards to play - GVA's overconfidence ("On the Kemmelberg it was clear that I was a level above the others" - ?), Quick-Step panicking... he is not the only one sending messages, even wrong ones.

Did he actually say that?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-avermaet-i-can-no-longer-say-im-not-the-tour-of-flanders-favourite/

 

[King Boonen]

Not that I want to be controversial, but imagine if it wasn't Sagan but Nacer doing that. Remember the outcry when his train "waved" Katusha out of the way last year? In the Catalunya thread, I raised what I see as a major issue: some teams or riders are more likely to get away with breaking the rules. Nothing new: Michael Jordan hardly ever got called for travelling, et caetera...but at least in cycling, there's more time for the officials to rule. Or rule twice as in Catalunya .

Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...

I have to agree with you. I didn't get to watch the race and I've only seen the youtube video that was linked, but if it were Bouhanni or Cav people would be up in arms. I can't see any justifiable reason for it. But then we've only seen a very short clip, hard to judge.

 

[PremierAndrew]

At the end of the day, that move from Sagan definitely could have caused a crash. If you're boxed in, you can't just do that

 

[StryderHells]

Not that I want to be controversial, but imagine if it wasn't Sagan but Nacer doing that. Remember the outcry when his train "waved" Katusha out of the way last year? In the Catalunya thread, I raised what I see as a major issue: some teams or riders are more likely to get away with breaking the rules. Nothing new: Michael Jordan hardly ever got called for travelling, et caetera...but at least in cycling, there's more time for the officials to rule. Or rule twice as in Catalunya .

Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...

I have to agree with you. I didn't get to watch the race and I've only seen the youtube video that was linked, but if it were Bouhanni or Cav people would be up in arms. I can't see any justifiable reason for it. But then we've only seen a very short clip, hard to judge.

Have to agree with both you and Tonton, it's all about heroes and villians and yep if Bouhanni had done it then posters would be screaming for his head, imagine if it had been Gerrans! the forum would of gone into meltdown and we would have 5 new threads started about it
It was far from the worst thing I've seen and very much borderline DQ stuff and with the way the rules of the sport are written he gets away with it.

 

[King Boonen]

Not sure why everyone is having a go at Terpstra. If he works he likely comes 4th at best. He isn't beating GVA, Sagan or Keukeleire in a sprint where they all have the same tiredness in their legs. If he makes everyone else do the work he might have a chance to get away and he has a very good card to play, Gav and Boonen are only a few seconds back and can challenge for the win. He actually did exactly what he should have done, make Sagan close the gap so he can take a flyer off the break. Didn't happen but it likely made no difference to his finishing position.

Sagan needs to realise that he's painted himself into this corner with his talent and his actions/racing. Everyone knows that he can beat anyone in a sprint finish either on the flat or on a ramp, and make them look like a chump doing it. Yes, he's lost this year but that doesn't change the fact that no-one is going to drag him up to the front group in the knowledge that he's going to smoke them at the finish line. He has to know that people will expect him to do more work because he has the most to gain from a reduced sprint. People will work with him earlier on, when they think they might have a chance, but not when they know any work just ends up with them trailing Sagan as he raises his hands crossing the finish line.

 

[trucido]

Re:

Not sure why everyone is having a go at Terpstra. If he works he likely comes 4th at best. He isn't beating GVA, Sagan or Keukeleire in a sprint where they all have the same tiredness in their legs. If he makes everyone else do the work he might have a chance to get away and he has a very good card to play, Gav and Boonen are only a few seconds back and can challenge for the win. He actually did exactly what he should have done, make Sagan close the gap so he can take a flyer off the break. Didn't happen but it likely made no difference to his finishing position.

Sagan needs to realise that he's painted himself into this corner with his talent and his actions/racing. Everyone knows that he can beat anyone in a sprint finish either on the flat or on a ramp, and make them look like a chump doing it. Yes, he's lost this year but that doesn't change the fact that no-one is going to drag him up to the front group in the knowledge that he's going to smoke them at the finish line. He has to know that people will expect him to do more work because he has the most to gain from a reduced sprint. People will work with him earlier on, when they think they might have a chance, but not when they know any work just ends up with them trailing Sagan as he raises his hands crossing the finish line.

The QS team-car was having a go at Terpstra (and conveniently reported they had "lost contact" with him during the incident) so why can't others?

The only thing Sagan did wrong was not sitting up completely and getting absorbed back into the peloton. His ill-fated chase later made his decision look a little half-baked, though the motorbike in front of GvA looked rather dubious.

I hope he does this more in future (without the comical chase-down).

 

[King Boonen]

Because Terpstra made the right decision.

 

[Hellyea]

he could close the gap and have stopped doing his turnes and see what happen. .

He stopped doing his turns and then gap created So what were you suggesting then?

 

[Dan2016]

Not that I want to be controversial, but imagine if it wasn't Sagan but Nacer doing that. Remember the outcry when his train "waved" Katusha out of the way last year? In the Catalunya thread, I raised what I see as a major issue: some teams or riders are more likely to get away with breaking the rules. Nothing new: Michael Jordan hardly ever got called for travelling, et caetera...but at least in cycling, there's more time for the officials to rule. Or rule twice as in Catalunya .

Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...

I have to agree with you. I didn't get to watch the race and I've only seen the youtube video that was linked, but if it were Bouhanni or Cav people would be up in arms. I can't see any justifiable reason for it. But then we've only seen a very short clip, hard to judge.

Have to agree with both you and Tonton, it's all about heroes and villians and yep if Bouhanni had done it then posters would be screaming for his head, imagine if it had been Gerrans! the forum would of gone into meltdown and we would have 5 new threads started about it
It was far from the worst thing I've seen and very much borderline DQ stuff and with the way the rules of the sport are written he gets away with it.

I just watched it again out of curiosity and to me it's even more minor than first viewing it. I don't have heroes or villains either. He gave the rider on the left plenty polite warning that he needed some space and the guy wouldn't budge, despite having loads of space on the left to move to. So Sagan gave him a shoulder bump to create some space. It's a bit of a non-event to my eyes.
We obviously all see things quite differently though.

 

[SKSemtex]

he could close the gap and have stopped doing his turnes and see what happen. .

He stopped doing his turns and then gap created So what were you suggesting then?

My suggestion was to sit on third position without playing that poker with Terprstra and just to folow the wheels with refuzing to do his turns. I am sure GVA would be pretty pissed off. He could still win it from peloton and he would at least have tested himself in the sprint.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re:

Just got home and watched the race ... didn’t read the comments but the funniest part was when Sagan's group was closing the gap all the way down to 8', then the camera bike gets right in front of GVA and all of the sudden, minute later, they have 18 seconds gap while the Sagan's trio is working hard and trading pulls.

Well, the Belgians got their winner, what the joke this race was.

BTW what happen to the new rule that no motorbikes in last few kms?

Lol, but the team car protecting Sagan c.s. from side wind and Sagan even shamelessly drafting behind the car for a little while is not a problem of course. :lol:

 

[King Boonen]

Not that I want to be controversial, but imagine if it wasn't Sagan but Nacer doing that. Remember the outcry when his train "waved" Katusha out of the way last year? In the Catalunya thread, I raised what I see as a major issue: some teams or riders are more likely to get away with breaking the rules. Nothing new: Michael Jordan hardly ever got called for travelling, et caetera...but at least in cycling, there's more time for the officials to rule. Or rule twice as in Catalunya .

Sagan is in my top-10 favorite riders (see recent thread), and I'd like to see more angles before I judge: but I don't like what I saw. Not one bit...

I have to agree with you. I didn't get to watch the race and I've only seen the youtube video that was linked, but if it were Bouhanni or Cav people would be up in arms. I can't see any justifiable reason for it. But then we've only seen a very short clip, hard to judge.

Have to agree with both you and Tonton, it's all about heroes and villians and yep if Bouhanni had done it then posters would be screaming for his head, imagine if it had been Gerrans! the forum would of gone into meltdown and we would have 5 new threads started about it
It was far from the worst thing I've seen and very much borderline DQ stuff and with the way the rules of the sport are written he gets away with it.

I just watched it again out of curiosity and to me it's even more minor than first viewing it. I don't have heroes or villains either. He gave the rider on the left plenty polite warning that he needed some space and the guy wouldn't budge, despite having loads of space on the left to move to. So Sagan gave him a shoulder bump to create some space. It's a bit of a non-event to my eyes.
We obviously all see things quite differently though.

No rider has to move out of the way for another rider. If Sagan wants to move up because he's in the wrong position he needs to find his way through.

Similarly you can't just push another rider out of the way because you want to ride in the space they are riding in.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Just got home and watched the race ... didn’t read the comments but the funniest part was when Sagan's group was closing the gap all the way down to 8', then the camera bike gets right in front of GVA and all of the sudden, minute later, they have 18 seconds gap while the Sagan's trio is working hard and trading pulls.

Well, the Belgians got their winner, what the joke this race was.

BTW what happen to the new rule that no motorbikes in last few kms?

Lol, but the team car protecting Sagan c.s. from side wind and Sagan even shamelessly drafting behind the car for a little while is not a problem of course. :lol:

People will always find a way to argue for their favourite and conveniently forget the times they benefit or bend the rules. I didn't get to watch the race so can't really comment but we have to accept that road racing is run on roads with cars and bikes around them. If we don't want to go back to the days of lone riders, no coverage and fixing their own mechanicals we have to accept that inevitably there will be times when riders use these vehicles to their advantage.

 

[Bolder]

Re:

Sagan needs to realise that he's painted himself into this corner with his talent and his actions/racing. Everyone knows that he can beat anyone in a sprint finish either on the flat or on a ramp, and make them look like a chump doing it. Yes, he's lost this year but that doesn't change the fact that no-one is going to drag him up to the front group in the knowledge that he's going to smoke them at the finish line. He has to know that people will expect him to do more work because he has the most to gain from a reduced sprint. People will work with him earlier on, when they think they might have a chance, but not when they know any work just ends up with them trailing Sagan as he raises his hands crossing the finish line.

This is it, exactly. I love watching him, think he's got great spirit, but something is a bit off on his tactics if he's consistently the strongest guy but falling short by a couple of seconds here and a couple of seconds there. Of course, no way Terpstra would work with him -- what's in it for him?