79th Gent-Wevelgem, 26th March 2017, 249 km, 1.UWT

[WheelofGear]

Re:

Then make it!

I'm not an artist when it comes to making threads. I expect someone who is good at it to make one.

 

[Sorped]

I hear Terpstra described as a p.o.s. - can anyone direct to me to somewhere I can read about his misdeeds?

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Am I the only one who thinks that Durbridge will win De Panne?

6th in Strade + 4th in Dwars & E3 + a 14.2k time trial as the last stage.

Looking pretty strong + been close a few times hasn't he? Has to be a favourite.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

Because Terpstra made the right decision.

Indeed. If he worked he probably ended 5th.

It didn't change that much for him. Sagan could've won the race, but lost it because he played the game with Terpstra.
It didn't change much for Terpstra, but it did change a lot for Sagan. He did make a point though which could certainly help him at the RvV. So it wasn't that bad for him, better make a statement in a classic than in an monument.

GVA is in stellar form and together with the fact that Sagan is extremely marked he's having a good time. RvV will be great this year.

Yep. Spot on.

Disagree. 5th or 4th in a sprint maybe, but who's chasing him down from a 2k out attack thus burning their matches for the sprint? Few have that kind of pedigree at the end of a long classic. So he could have easily exploited that situation, like PR. He only had one card yes, but it was a good one and worth playing.

By the effort of his eventual (fruitless) chase, I think he realised this too.

 

[Netserk]

Kwibus, you repeat the false dichotomy that he would either have to sit up completely or work with the group of 5, but that is false. He could easily glue himself to that group and let Sagan go behind him without taking any pulls.

 

[spiritualride]

Re: Re:

Several riders have spoken about how the dominance of race radio has made them a bit brain-dead to making their own good split-second tactical decisions. Who knows if that was part of it but it was strange to watch.

This would be the fault of the DS to not let their riders have any room to make decisions on the fly. It's an extremely basic principle that applies to so many situations beyond cycling - giving the individual freedom to make their own decision in a specific situation. The question is why do so many teams have tactically incompetent director sportifs? Do they get hired due to being part of the old boys club of the pro peloton rather than their abilities?

Because Terpstra made the right decision.

Indeed. If he worked he probably ended 5th.

He didn't have to work... false dichotomy as another poster said. He sat up instead of following the wheel in front of him. IMO Terpstra and Sagan both made a bad mistake, playing a game of chicken expecting each other to not make such a bad mistake. Terpstra and QS come out to be the biggest loser though. I don't know how you two think he made the right decision... he worked with Sagan after that. I don't know how that was possibly the right call for him to let the front two ride away, then work with Sagan after that. QS incompetence again.

 

[Lexman]

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

That just shows the stupidity in cycling.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

That second angle really shows the action for what it is. Completely unneccessary, dangerous and bullying; a big time charlie lashing out at a little guy as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

 

[Rachela]

Re: Re:

as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

Well, he was caught in a crash just a few kms before Kemmelberg so it was not really "his awful positioning", he had some ground to make up before the climb and I can see the frustration played its role here.

 

[hammerthaim]

Re: Re:

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

That second angle really shows the action for what it is. Completely unneccessary, dangerous and bullying; a big time charlie lashing out at a little guy as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

That second angle really shows the action for what it is. Completely unneccessary, dangerous and bullying; a big time charlie lashing out at a little guy as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

And this kind of attitude perpetuates this stupidity in cycling.

 

[hammerthaim]

Re: Re:

yesterday during Extra Time on Sporza they spoek of the acion of Sagan on the Kemmel, everyon agrees he permits to do it because it was a rider oif a smaller team

he wouldn' do it against a rider from a WT team

it shows also the incident from another angle

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2936935

That second angle really shows the action for what it is. Completely unneccessary, dangerous and bullying; a big time charlie lashing out at a little guy as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

And this kind of attitude perpetuates this stupidity in cycling.

Gotta draw a line somewhere. Same in every sport and a lot of other things in life. Experience and results get you certain privileges, and I don't believe that to be a bad thing, to a certain extent. "this is the life of a small cyclist."

 

[hammerthaim]

All the guys are under so much pressure to perform. Moving a slower rider out of the way at 25km/hr is not a bad thing.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

as a result of his own awful positioning. Shameful stuff by Sagan.

Well, he was caught in a crash just a few kms before Kemmelberg so it was not really "his awful positioning", he had some ground to make up before the climb and I can see the frustration played its role here.

Well, he got caught behind the crash because he was too far back in the peloton. There's a reason riders 'waste' energy to try to stay near the front all day.

In any event, it's not excuse to be bullying another rider. It's not like that guy was being lapped or just in the way; he was actually ahead of Sagan in the race at that point - because he'd positioned himself better before then. Absolutely no excuse for such a dangerous bit of riding. If you don't want to get boxed in or stuck behind slower riders on the climbs; then stay near the front of the race all day - Sagan has the power to do that but chose not to. He messed up tactically and positionally and lashed out at someone with little power or influence in the peloton.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

FYI, Maxime Vantomme is 31 years old and ended 11th in that G-W, same time as Sagan.
Regardless, no-one should feel 'entitled' to just shove other riders aside.

 

[hammerthaim]

Re: Re:

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

FYI, Maxime Vantomme is 31 years old and ended 11th in that G-W, same time as Sagan.
Regardless, no-one should feel 'entitled' to just shove other riders aside.

Yes I know who Maxime Vantomme is and where he finished, that's why I said faster. Have you guys ever raced? Sagan was in the right, I'm not sure why people think this so dangerous. Talk to older (60's, 70's racers) and there were guys pulling each others brakes in the sprint etc haha.

 

[Jagartrott]

Well, in that talkshow, Vanderpoel, Tankink and Naesen all agreed that it was ridiculous and not done. I don't really care what was 'normal' behaviour in the 60s or 70s.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Well, in that talkshow, Vanderpoel, Tankink and Naesen all agreed that it was ridiculous and not done. I don't really care what was 'normal' behaviour in the 60s or 70s.

Exactly. Lots of things happened in the past which are completely unacceptable by today's standards. There is just no defence for nearly making a rider crash, because of nothing but you're own frustration.

Also, it's absolutely right to call out bullying by a rider like Sagan, who spends a lot of time and money (in combination with his sponsors) to present the image of being a cool guy who' is respectful and unfazed by everything. If Bouhanni had done something similar, absolutely no-one would be defending him; people would be asking for a ban. And it should be exactly the same for someone with a manufactured good-guy persona like Sagan.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

FYI, Maxime Vantomme is 31 years old and ended 11th in that G-W, same time as Sagan.
Regardless, no-one should feel 'entitled' to just shove other riders aside.

Indeed. And by that ridiculous logic, surely there could be no complaints if Vantomme - as the more experienced rider - pushed Sagan into the hedge on the Koppenberg this weekend. Or maybe if Pozzato - as the older guy - decided to shunt GVA out of the way because he wanted the nicer line on the Oude Kwaremont.

 

[hammerthaim]

Re:

Well, in that talkshow, Vanderpoel, Tankink and Naesen all agreed that it was ridiculous and not done. I don't really care what was 'normal' behaviour in the 60s or 70s.

What Bouhanni has done is ridiculous and not done. Battle for position is the true spirit of the cobbles!

 

[hammerthaim]

Re: Re:

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

FYI, Maxime Vantomme is 31 years old and ended 11th in that G-W, same time as Sagan.
Regardless, no-one should feel 'entitled' to just shove other riders aside.

Indeed. And by that ridiculous logic, surely there could be no complaints if Vantomme - as the more experienced rider - pushed Sagan into the hedge on the Koppenberg this weekend. Or maybe if Pozzato - as the older guy - decided to shunt GVA out of the way because he wanted the nicer line on the Oude Kwaremont.

Shunting out of the way on Oude Kwaremont is done every time people race up it, there was no greater risk of Vantomme crashing compared to 200km of railing corners and riding in crosswinds. "Such is the life of a small cyclist"

 

[hammerthaim]

Different points of views my guys. Racing is enjoyed in many forms. If there was risk of serious injury or race-altering I'd be on your side. But not for now

 

[Flamin]

LOL if you think this is part of racing. That bodycheck at the end was totally uncalled for. No idea why he did that, since space had already opened up and he could just move through.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Have you ever raced, or raced as a younger guy? You expect, rightfully, to be shunted out of the way by older guys. It's racing. Look how hard these guys are going, the rider was in a faster, more experienced riders way. So it isn't dangerous as they're going slow up a hill.

FYI, Maxime Vantomme is 31 years old and ended 11th in that G-W, same time as Sagan.
Regardless, no-one should feel 'entitled' to just shove other riders aside.

Indeed. And by that ridiculous logic, surely there could be no complaints if Vantomme - as the more experienced rider - pushed Sagan into the hedge on the Koppenberg this weekend. Or maybe if Pozzato - as the older guy - decided to shunt GVA out of the way because he wanted the nicer line on the Oude Kwaremont.

New tactic for Bora: Hire Djamolidine Abdoujaparov and get him to sprint from behind into the bunch of favourites with Sagan on his wheel.