Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Red Rick]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ray j is my hero.

I noticed sir fly suggested we "stick to the facts" so I am not sure why he is now pushing some sort of conspiracy that the double was all just a trick to generate more media exposure for Tinkoff-Saxo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

And are wind splits not part of cycling?

I did not say anything like that, was just correcting sir fly that that gap did indeed decide the race in the end.

You can't tell that.
Who knows how the race would unfold without the gap.
Maybe another minute into Quintana on Plateau de Beille?
Maybe not. Who knows.

Not going to argue about that, just showed you were wrong, the gap on stage 2 was bigger than the final gap, suck it up.

 

[sir fly]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

IMO If there was no wind split in the tour then Froome and Sky would have had to have beat Quintana and Movie to win and that was never going to happen. He would have had to race instead of being wheel sucked around by Thomas. Quite a few times he nodded to G to slow down, He just could not respond.
It would have changed the whole structure of the race. Froome was not good enough in the last week or so. He was struggling hanging onto Thomas's wheel and could not respond to attacks. Quintana was the best climber you cannot dispute that fact, he gave Froome a beating and if he was a bit more aggressive "Aru style" he would have won the tour. I doubt he will make that mistake again.

Seriously, what TDF were you watching?

Thomas was long gone by the time Froome looked to be in real trouble responding to attacks. In 2012, Froome was really good in the third week, so please put to rest your 'he is never good in the third week' argument.

And saying Contador was attacking in the third week in the 2015 TDF is mostly hyperbolic. By then, his legs were mostly mush due to the accumulated fatigue of two GTs.

But Alberto did attack. Ray Jay did not tell a lie well besided Froome supposedly hanging onto Geraint's wheel.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

And are wind splits not part of cycling?

I did not say anything like that, was just correcting sir fly that that gap did indeed decide the race in the end.

You can't tell that.
Who knows how the race would unfold without the gap.
Maybe another minute into Quintana on Plateau de Beille?
Maybe not. Who knows.

Not going to argue about that, just showed you were wrong, the gap on stage 2 was bigger than the final gap, suck it up.

Plural, girl. Plural.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

Sir fly when did you decide this was all just a marketing stunt, was it before or after Alberto proved you wrong by starting (and winning) the Giro?

 

[ray j willings]

Come on Sirfly there was no could have should have , Who won the giro this year beating Aru and Landa and a bonkers Astana machine ? Bertie
that's not a could have. That's a GT win. He rode a great tour considering how tough the Giro was.
IMO Froome would not have won the Giro. Bertie took on the Astana team by himself. That's something Froome could never achieve. He's not strong enough over 3 weeks The facts back that up. He lost time in all his tour wins.

As for your marketing assumptions. That's just stupid. Bertie made it clear he was riding the double. Oleg challenged Froome and nibs etc to race as well. It would have been good. But its no more marketing than Skys stupid suspension bike or the endless Sky bias cr%% we have to suffer on main stream media TV.
It's words not marketing. It was a move to get the best riders to race. That's what we want to see.
Marketing , I'm not sure you know what that means. Did you see ads in the main stream papers ?
What is he selling ? It was a challenge to the other riders to race Bertie.

 

[Red Rick]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

So first you have Contador getting the better of Froome in every race before the Tour in 2014, then crashing out, then Contador getting back to beat Froome once again in the Vuelta after coming back from a more serious injury, and then all of a sudden he decides to do the Giro first because he's afraid of getting clobbered by Froome in the Tour and to have an excuse for underperforming in the Tour

Yeah, sure

 

[sir fly]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

Sir fly when did you decide this was all just a marketing stunt, was it before or after Alberto proved you wrong by starting (and winning) the Giro?

From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Plural, girl. Plural.

Is that relevant? Only thing that matters is the gap between Nairo and Froome.

Anyway that was enough off topic discussion.

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Come on Sirfly there was no could have should have , Who won the giro this year beating Aru and Landa and a bonkers Astana machine ? Bertie
that's not a could have. That's a GT win. He rode a great tour considering how tough the Giro was.
IMO Froome would not have won the Giro. Bertie took on the Astana team by himself. That's something Froome could never achieve. He's not strong enough over 3 weeks The facts back that up. He lost time in all his tour wins.

 

[LaFlorecita]

From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.

So because it got a lot of attention in the media it was obviously a marketing stunt. Strange ..uhmmm theory. Bet the refugee situation is a marketing stunt too!

 

[ray j willings]

Sir fly , You don't seem to be able to answer the question about the time gap
suck it up "boy" suck it up

 

[Red Rick]

From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.

So because it got a lot of attention in the media it was obviously a marketing stunt. Strange ..uhmmm theory.

Ahwell, If Serena doesn't win the US open, the Grand Slam for her was also just a marketing stunt

 

[sir fly]

Re:

As for your marketing assumptions. That's just stupid. Bertie made it clear he was riding the double. Oleg challenged Froome and nibs etc to race as well. It would have been good. But its no more marketing than Skys stupid suspension bike or the endless Sky bias cr%% we have to suffer on main stream media TV.
It's words not marketing. It was a move to get the best riders to race. That's what we want to see.
Marketing , I'm not sure you know what that means. Did you see ads in the main stream papers ?
What is he selling ? It was a challenge to the other riders to race Bertie.

Well, that's exactly the marketing.
To be more attractive to the audience.
Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Sir fly , You don't seem to be able to answer the question about the time gap
suck it up "boy" suck it up

Could've, would've, should've, ray...

 

[ray j willings]

[quote="[ur
So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding[/quote]
No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.[/quote]
Sir fly when did you decide this was all just a marketing stunt, was it before or after Alberto proved you wrong by starting (and winning) the Giro?[/quote]
From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.[/quote]

You do realise that Froome ride for Sky. Have you heard of Sky. Have you missed all those ads that Sky have on the telly Sky ride etc ,that's called marketing

 

[damian13ster]

Re:

Come on Sirfly there was no could have should have , Who won the giro this year beating Aru and Landa and a bonkers Astana machine ? Bertie
that's not a could have. That's a GT win. He rode a great tour considering how tough the Giro was.
IMO Froome would not have won the Giro. Bertie took on the Astana team by himself. That's something Froome could never achieve. He's not strong enough over 3 weeks The facts back that up. He lost time in all his tour wins.

As for your marketing assumptions. That's just stupid. Bertie made it clear he was riding the double. Oleg challenged Froome and nibs etc to race as well. It would have been good. But its no more marketing than Skys stupid suspension bike or the endless Sky bias cr%% we have to suffer on main stream media TV.
It's words not marketing. It was a move to get the best riders to race. That's what we want to see.
Marketing , I'm not sure you know what that means. Did you see ads in the main stream papers ?
What is he selling ? It was a challenge to the other riders to race Bertie.

Hypocrite much? Remember Giro 3rd week?
And losing a GT by almost 10 min, without a single stage is by no means a great race.

And on to the other points.... Oh wait, nevermind, there is zero points, just wishfull thinking and opinion.

And sirfly is correct about the marketing and PR. Just look how effective it is.
A season with 0 WT stage wins, a GT win with none of big 4 there (and dropped every single time the road got up), and somehow it is still a successful season according to lots of people.
That's a great PR

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Sir fly , You don't seem to be able to answer the question about the time gap
suck it up "boy" suck it up

Could've, would've, should've, ray...

I thought I was having a rational debate. But you seem to have resorted to trying to wind Bertie Fans up.
I think admitting you made a error about the time gap would have shown some rationale
I did not pull you up on it. I could have,
We all have different view but you cannot dispute facts.
I off to watch Extant
cheers

 

[LaFlorecita]

Alberto's victories this year

Stage 3 Ruta del Sol in February

Giro d'Italia in May

Stage 3 Route du Sud in June

Route du Sud overall

 

[sir fly]

[quote="[ur
So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

Sir fly when did you decide this was all just a marketing stunt, was it before or after Alberto proved you wrong by starting (and winning) the Giro?[/quote]
From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.[/quote]

You do realise that Froome ride for Sky. Have you heard of Sky. Have you missed all those ads that Sky have on the telly Sky ride etc ,that's called marketing[/quote][/quote]

No, it's not.
I don't have that ads, but was all the time aware of the double attempt and the challenge Olga presented.
That's marketing - to be more appealing to the market.
Even Olga, himself, explained the challenge in that way.

 

[ray j willings]

[quote="[ur
So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

So you think he they did it thinking they had no chance of succeeding? Cause that's what you're applying to my understanding

No chance winning the Tour, even solely targeting it.
Exactly.

Sir fly when did you decide this was all just a marketing stunt, was it before or after Alberto proved you wrong by starting (and winning) the Giro?

From the beginning.
Independently of his participations, the attention was there. Everybody was talking and living in expectation to see what's going to happen.
That's the trick.[/quote]

You do realise that Froome ride for Sky. Have you heard of Sky. Have you missed all those ads that Sky have on the telly Sky ride etc ,that's called marketing[/quote][/quote]

No, it's not.
I don't have that ads, but was all the time aware of the double attempt and the challenge Olga presented.
That's marketing - to be more appealing to the market.
Even Olga, himself, explained the challenge in that way.[/quote]

Sky putting ads on the telly using Sky riders in team kit, that's not marketing ?

 

[sir fly]

Sky putting ads on the telly using Sky riders in team kit, that's not marketing ?

Haven't you gone, ray?!
Be free to ignore the rest of my reply.
And what Sky's doing is called "advertising". This lesson is free, 'cause I hope it'll improve our further communication.

 

[Red Rick]

Well it was a marketing stunt, you're just arguing that it was an empty one, which is bs imo. Nitpicking about definitions of advertizing and marketing don't change that

That said, let's agree to disagree and mutually hope they'll be going at it in somewhere in France during the 7th month of next year