Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

I am not exactly sure what you are getting at? All I said is not to ignore circumstances before Vuelta 2014, which make the race far from indicative of the top level of riders. And if Blurry chooses to ignore that then he should ignore those in 2013 and 2015 as well. Just pointing out double standards

I'm a bit confused because I thought Blurry was suggesting that if people use 2013 and 2015 as evidence Froome is better than Contador, ignoring the circumstances, then we should ignore the circumstances in 2014 as well i.e. do exactly what you said? Not sure what you are trying to point out.

Here is an excerpt from Blurry's post:

'The only time we saw both on great form, was 2014. Contador smashed him in Catalunya, Dauphiné and Vuelta on equal ground. Don't care if Froome wasn't in form in Catalunya or whatever, since I'm still seeing people mentioning 2013.

Plus Froome always gets destroyed in a final week of a GT in what's supposed to be his 'peak', which he actually can't even hold for 3 weeks. Can't handle a crash either, as soon as he crashes, he litterally vanishes. Still one guy who thinks he can win GTs back to back. He isn't even close to it.

It's just about time, 2016 will be the second fair showdown between Contador and Froome since Vuelta 2014 and Contador will show him what's a real metronome . When he hits that peak, it'll be for 3 weeks not for one MTF then hang on for dear life .'

Clearly he says Dauphine and Vuelta were on equal ground, completely neglecting the fact that Froome won both stages in Dauphine before crashing and Vuelta wasn't targeted by either riders and we have no clue about actual health issues they went through so there is absolutely no evidence that it was an equal ground.

Also, last paragraph: 2016 will be the second fair showdown between Contador and Froome since Vuelta 2014.
That is self explanatory really as Blurry's opinion is clearly stated here and shows double standards applied

 

[dacooley]

contador beat froome on equal terms fair & square in 2014 straight after the season of the reverse effect. does it enlighten perspectives for next year's season and the 2016 tour in any regard? of course not. what metronome it makes sense to talk about god only knows.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

but Froome is slightly better in the TTs

Wouldn't be so sure about that.
Contador in good shape is a beast in 3rd week ITTs.

Fun fact in long ITTs in GTs it is 2-2 since Froome's breakthrough, 2x TDF 2013 for Froome, Vuelta 2012 and Vuelta 2014 for Contador.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

but Froome is slightly better in the TTs

Wouldn't be so sure about that.
Contador in good shape is a beast in 3rd week ITTs.

Fun fact in long ITTs in GTs it is 2-2 since Froome's breakthrough, 2x TDF 2013 for Froome, Vuelta 2012 and Vuelta 2014 for Contador.

Yeah I dont think there is much difference between them in a long iTT, especially later on in a Tour. Maybe if it's in week 1 I'd slightly favour Froome as that's when he's strongest.

If there is a long (50km) and flat TT in next years Tour I can see Quintana losing a lot of time to Contador and Froome.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

but Froome is slightly better in the TTs

Wouldn't be so sure about that.
Contador in good shape is a beast in 3rd week ITTs.

Fun fact in long ITTs in GTs it is 2-2 since Froome's breakthrough, 2x TDF 2013 for Froome, Vuelta 2012 and Vuelta 2014 for Contador.

Yeah I dont think there is much difference between them in a long iTT, especially later on in a Tour. Maybe if it's in week 1 I'd slightly favour Froome as that's when he's strongest.

If there is a long (50km) and flat TT in next years Tour I can see Quintana losing a lot of time to Contador and Froome.

I agree and if it is later on in a GT and fully flat + long I would give the edge to Froome but don't think the difference would be massive.

 

[ray j willings]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

damian, I actually agree with your positive views on Froome (though I think you are biased against Contador). In regard to the 2014 Dauphine, Froome's inability to dislodge Contador with his insane high cadence attack is important given his historical performances and tactics. In both Tours he has won, he secured the victory essentially by establishing dominance with a high cadence attack on the first major climb. No one was able to stick with him on that first climb. On later multi-climb stages, they were even able to drop him. The fact that Froome's strategy appears to hinge almost entirely on a dominant high cadence attack, coupled with the appearance of ineffectiveness in regard to Contador, made many of us think that Contador would beat Froome in the Tour. I would by no means bet my life on it, but it looked like Contador would have been able to hang with Froome on his first maniacal attacks and then use his greater consistency to gain time in the final week.

Additionally, as I recall, the numbers Froome and Contador put up in the Vuelta were very strong. It doesn't really matter what we guess about their relative fitness, the fact is they were climbing very strongly and were not far off of their peak performances, if at all, meaning the Vuelta is in fact a relevant comparison. Not as relevant as the Tour would have been, had they both finished it without crashing. But relevant.

Finally, someone above said that pre-Vuelta interviews indicated Contador was determined to win whereas Froome was not. Actually, Contador said he was no where close to being in shape to go for the victory, then that he was maybe in shape for a stage victory. It took a solid week or so for people to realize that he was actually in killer shape and going for the W. I am pretty sure he knew all along, but I thought this was worth pointing out as it shows how our biases effect our memories of past events.

 

[sir fly]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

 

[sir fly]

Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

What about the others?
Gaps - plural.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

damian, I actually agree with your positive views on Froome (though I think you are biased against Contador). In regard to the 2014 Dauphine, Froome's inability to dislodge Contador with his insane high cadence attack is important given his historical performances and tactics. In both Tours he has won, he secured the victory essentially by establishing dominance with a high cadence attack on the first major climb. No one was able to stick with him on that first climb. On later multi-climb stages, they were even able to drop him. The fact that Froome's strategy appears to hinge almost entirely on a dominant high cadence attack, coupled with the appearance of ineffectiveness in regard to Contador, made many of us think that Contador would beat Froome in the Tour. I would by no means bet my life on it, but it looked like Contador would have been able to hang with Froome on his first maniacal attacks and then use his greater consistency to gain time in the final week.

Additionally, as I recall, the numbers Froome and Contador put up in the Vuelta were very strong. It doesn't really matter what we guess about their relative fitness, the fact is they were climbing very strongly and were not far off of their peak performances, if at all, meaning the Vuelta is in fact a relevant comparison. Not as relevant as the Tour would have been, had they both finished it without crashing. But relevant.

Finally, someone above said that pre-Vuelta interviews indicated Contador was determined to win whereas Froome was not. Actually, Contador said he was no where close to being in shape to go for the victory, then that he was maybe in shape for a stage victory. It took a solid week or so for people to realize that he was actually in killer shape and going for the W. I am pretty sure he knew all along, but I thought this was worth pointing out as it shows how our biases effect our memories of past events.

According to the pro-Froome contingent, Froome was handicapped for the entirety of 2014 by the crashes that he incurred, otherwise Contador would've been toast.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

And are wind splits not part of cycling?

 

[Red Rick]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

 

[sir fly]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

 

[ray j willings]

Sir fly
"Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts"
The double was just a marketing move, That's an assumption . Bertie made it clear he wanted to try for the double, and that's what he did. Its something he wanted to achieve after all he has won everything.
If Froome is so good why didn't he try for the double. Bertie said he needed a challenge. if he wanted to avoid Froome as you are insinuating he would not have raced him in the early part of the season and would not have rode the tour. No fact in your statement just assumption.

IMO If there was no wind split in the tour then Froome and Sky would have had to have beat Quintana and Movie to win and that was never going to happen. He would have had to race instead of being wheel sucked around by Thomas. Quite a few times he nodded to G to slow down, He just could not respond.
It would have changed the whole structure of the race. Froome was not good enough in the last week or so. He was struggling hanging onto Thomas's wheel and could not respond to attacks. Quintana was the best climber you cannot dispute that fact, he gave Froome a beating and if he was a bit more aggressive "Aru style" he would have won the tour. I doubt he will make that mistake again.

 

[Angliru]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

I keep thinking that it was one of your ilk that was quite certain that Contador would back out of doing the Giro because they believed that he was fearful of facing Froome with the Giro in his legs and with none of his rivals having decided to take up the challenge of doing the double. That wouldn't have been you would it?

 

[Red Rick]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

Well why did he go to the Tour if it was just marketing, and he was gonne get clobbered anyway?

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Sir fly
"Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts"
The double was just a marketing move, That's an assumption . Bertie made it clear he wanted to try for the double, and that's what he did. Its something he wanted to achieve after all he has won everything.
If Froome is so good why didn't he try for the double. Bertie said he needed a challenge. if he wanted to avoid Froome as you are insinuating he would not have raced him in the early part of the season and would not have rode the tour. No fact in your statement just assumption.

IMO If there was no wind split in the tour then Froome and Sky would have had to have beat Quintana and Movie to win and that was never going to happen. He would have had to race instead of being wheel sucked around by Thomas. Quite a few times he nodded to G to slow down, He just could not respond.
It would have changed the whole structure of the race. Froome was not good enough in the last week or so. He was struggling hanging onto Thomas's wheel and could not respond to attacks. Quintana was the best climber you cannot dispute that fact, he gave Froome a beating and if he was a bit more aggressive "Aru style" he would have won the tour. I doubt he will make that mistake again.

You're right.
Contador could ride to the moon if he just wanted to.
Could've, should've would've... To sum up your arguments.

 

[sir fly]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

Well why did he go to the Tour if it was just marketing, and he was gonne get clobbered anyway?

How would he look if he didn't?
And the marketing move wouldn't be complete without it.
Are you just pulling my leg, or you actually aren't the sharpest tool in the shed?

 

[Red Rick]

[qote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1808393#p1808393]Red Rick[/url]"]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

Well why did he go to the Tour if it was just marketing, and he was gonne get clobbered anyway?

How would he look if he didn't?
And the marketing move wouldn't be complete without it.
Are you just pulling my leg, or you actually aren't the sharpest tool in the shed?[/quote]
So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

 

[sir fly]

sir fly
" Contador doesn't have what it takes to win the Tour again, so he's choosing lesser goals"

Like trying to win the double this year and beating Astana by himself. Lesser goal
Tell me how will Froome win the tour next year against Quintana or Aru if he does not get a wind split or a thousand miles of TT. He has been dropped on mountain stages all season. if Bertie is in shape next year how is he going to beat Bertie when he got beat all 2014 by Bertie.
And don't forget Bertie dropped him from 10k and beat him In a tt , This year. what happened to Froome there was he injured or did he forget his asthma pump

You assumption about Bertie has no basis for reality, You have to look at the facts, the road.
We don't know how good Bertie was this year because he was definitely riding to save energy, yet still won the Giro at a canter and still looked to attack in the 3rd week of the tour. Froome can barely last 3 weeks of the tour.

You can say "oh Froome won a stage a few days ago in the vuelta" but he won stage in the tour, but as soon as we got into the third week and the mountains he was hanging on . He could not live with Quintana [ should have won] He would have finished at best with Quintana yesterday and by the third week of this Vuelta Aru would be minutes at least 3 or 4 ahead of Froome.
Do you forget that Froome got dropped twice when he won the tour in 2013?
Quintana will learn from the tour . If Aru rides the tour with Nibs they will rip it up and then if Bertie is in decent form Froome will lose major time in the third week like he always does.
Bertie was a monster last year when he targeted the Tour. Same form again next year and your boy Froome may as well ride the Giro because that will be the only chance of a GC win.

Give me a break, ray.
The double was just a marketing move from the beginning, and the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end.
You really need to get grip with the facts.

Why ride the Giro if the double is just marketing?

Errr...
'Cause you can't do the double without riding the Giro?

I keep thinking that it was one of your ilk that was quite certain that Contador would back out of doing the Giro because they believed that he was fearful of facing Froome with the Giro in his legs and with none of his rivals having decided to take up the challenge of doing the double. That wouldn't have been you would it?

I keep thinking you're the discredited one poster from the last autumn. That wouldn't have been you would it?
A sincere hope that we'll see a genuine top Froome vs. top Contador battle was behind my attitude.
You can interpret it however you like.

 

[sir fly]

So why are you saying it's all marketing? You really think he created all that hype just to get butchered with extra publicity?

It's marketing.
Majority of attention was on him and Tinkoff since they've announced it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

And are wind splits not part of cycling?

I did not say anything like that, was just correcting sir fly that that gap did indeed decide the race in the end.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re:

IMO If there was no wind split in the tour then Froome and Sky would have had to have beat Quintana and Movie to win and that was never going to happen. He would have had to race instead of being wheel sucked around by Thomas. Quite a few times he nodded to G to slow down, He just could not respond.
It would have changed the whole structure of the race. Froome was not good enough in the last week or so. He was struggling hanging onto Thomas's wheel and could not respond to attacks. Quintana was the best climber you cannot dispute that fact, he gave Froome a beating and if he was a bit more aggressive "Aru style" he would have won the tour. I doubt he will make that mistake again.

Seriously, what TDF were you watching?

Thomas was long gone by the time Froome looked to be in real trouble responding to attacks. In 2012, Froome was really good in the third week, so please put to rest your 'he is never good in the third week' argument.

And saying Contador was attacking in the third week in the 2015 TDF is mostly hyperbolic. By then, his legs were mostly mush due to the accumulated fatigue of two GTs.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

"the wind split created smaller gaps than they were at the end."

Gap on stage 2 1'28"
Gap on GC 1'12"

And are wind splits not part of cycling?

I did not say anything like that, was just correcting sir fly that that gap did indeed decide the race in the end.

You can't tell that.
Who knows how the race would unfold without the gap.
Maybe another minute into Quintana on Plateau de Beille?
Maybe not. Who knows.