Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[tretiak]

Re: Re:

I have finally understood all the mastermind of Tinkoff team - TdF16. AC has arrived in a questionable shape (how do you know that? Had he showed a questionable shape in the first stage before he crashed?) and he GAVE UP instead of helping teammates. The sweet super teammates that deserve so much for helping AC not to lose time for example stage 2. The selfish AC bastard went home to heal his pathetic silly wounds instead of helping Rafal Majka win KoM and Roman Kreuziger finish in top 50.

Oh.[/quote]

Have you ever crashed at high speed and slid over a curb? (Silly wounds)

 

[jilbiker]

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

 

[Ramon Koran]

I honestly think without injury he would have won this tour Froome is subpar and the rest are worse, what a shame always next year I guess but how many years has he got left in the tank?

 

[Pennino]

Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

He had something with his bike on the cobble stage, but showed superb form in the second stage as well as in the stage before he crashed out.

This kind of commenting annoys me very much. Why can't people just stick to the facts instead of all this trying to look in somebody's head.

For what AC has shown over the last three years (basically the ones in which he changed his training methods after starting to get working with De Jong, doing altitude camps and interval sessions) in all races he participated in, one cannot but seeing him as a reasonable threat for TdF GC victory.

 

[peloton]

Re: Re:

I think the vuelta will tell us if he could fight for the tour head to head with froome

the vuelta has absolutely nothing to do with the tdf.

ask heras.

How many TdF's and Giro's did he win?

 

[Angliru]

Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

No you're not. Saying you are something doesn't make it true. Your posts are either delusional or just plain lies like many here claim Contador to be making (much like yourself). And this super form Nibali must have been a once in a lifetime occurrence because we have yet to see this creature at the Tour again let alone in any major race.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Bertie had legs to continue the Tour and try to recover to be competitive for the stage wins in week 3 at least. He simply chose not to spoil his image by losing 5-7 minutes on arcalis which seemed inevitable. No doubt, that was by far the best decision for saving the season in the Vuelta, but still not the optimal one for his tour 2017 prospects.

If one's doctor says that it would take 2-3 weeks off of the bike to recover from one's injuries how do you translate that into him being potentially able to recover to be competitive for stage wins in week 3 while continuing to ride 100+ kms per stage? Am I misunderstanding your post? The fact that you state that his primary reason for pulling out of the Tour was to avoid spoiling his image, not his injuries leaves you with no credibility with me.

agreed with Angliru. Everyone seemed to think Alberto injury is minor and everyone thinks, they are a doctor. Why worry about spoiling his image? Last year, he kept bleeding time, yet he stayed in the race? Wasn't he like some 8+ minutes behind Froome?

I enjoy reading this forum. Argument and discussion are always engaging. But when it goes too far stretch, that's purely hater comment.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

No you're not. Saying you are something doesn't make it true. Your posts are either delusional or just plain lies like many here claim Contador to be making (much like yourself). And this super form Nibali must have been a once in a lifetime occurrence because we have yet to see this creature at the Tour again let alone in any major race.

Well, to be fair a top shape post-ban Contador (other than in prep or consolation races) is also like a Loch Ness monster. People claim it exists yet noone has really seen it.
Facts are that in a Tour
- he sucked in 2013
- crashed out by his own error while being down 2:30 in GC in 2014
- sucked in 2015 (granted, after Giro in which he got dropped all over the place but won thanks to ITT and Astana not letting Landa off the leash)
- crashed out through his own fault in 2016 after showing relatively poor form in Dauphine

The guy is just not good enough to win at the very highest level against Froome

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

No you're not. Saying you are something doesn't make it true. Your posts are either delusional or just plain lies like many here claim Contador to be making (much like yourself). And this super form Nibali must have been a once in a lifetime occurrence because we have yet to see this creature at the Tour again let alone in any major race.

Nibali's Giro 2013 and Tour 2014.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I'm looking forward to watching a race again with the prospect of enjoying it. Will Burgos be televised?

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

No you're not. Saying you are something doesn't make it true. Your posts are either delusional or just plain lies like many here claim Contador to be making (much like yourself). And this super form Nibali must have been a once in a lifetime occurrence because we have yet to see this creature at the Tour again let alone in any major race.

Well, to be fair a top shape post-ban Contador (other than in prep or consolation races) is also like a Loch Ness monster. People claim it exists yet noone has really seen it.
Facts are that in a Tour
- he sucked in 2013
- crashed out by his own error while being down 2:30 in GC in 2014
- sucked in 2015 (granted, after Giro in which he got dropped all over the place but won thanks to ITT and Astana not letting Landa off the leash)
- crashed out through his own fault in 2016 after showing relatively poor form in Dauphine

The guy is just not good enough to win at the very highest level against Froome

Very sad to say it but its true. I am a zero Froome or Sky fan but mentally Froome is at a different level from Bertie. Perhaps it comes with getting a couple of TDFs under your belt, it elevates you mentally. Been a while since Bertie wore that Yellow jersey, there are self doubts and they increase with the longer that you don't wear that jersey. The mental level/self belief for each GT is different with TDF being the highest.

I also think post the ban, Bertie was not the same mentally, something changed. He felt he was unjustly punished and I am not sure how he processed that feeling/emotion. Maybe he needs a good therapist?

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

could have, would have, probably have....thats what the Contador discussion has become. AC fans seem to live an alternative universe. I am still not over the 2014 acclaimed super form AT the TDF. Are you kidding? He was over 2 minutes behind an absolutely in form Nibali. Just like Quintana was in super form BEFORE the 2016 TDF now we see he is 2 minutes behind, can we say he IS in super form for the TDF?

I had my doubts about Bertie before this TDF, I just did not see him beating Froome or Quintana, now I am convinced the exit was a savior from embarrassment. Its a mental thing, as well as a physical thing. Oh...I am a Bertie fan, but really, lets get real.

No you're not. Saying you are something doesn't make it true. Your posts are either delusional or just plain lies like many here claim Contador to be making (much like yourself). And this super form Nibali must have been a once in a lifetime occurrence because we have yet to see this creature at the Tour again let alone in any major race.

Well, to be fair a top shape post-ban Contador (other than in prep or consolation races) is also like a Loch Ness monster. People claim it exists yet noone has really seen it.
Facts are that in a Tour
- he sucked in 2013
- crashed out by his own error while being down 2:30 in GC in 2014
- sucked in 2015 (granted, after Giro in which he got dropped all over the place but won thanks to ITT and Astana not letting Landa off the leash)
- crashed out through his own fault in 2016 after showing relatively poor form in Dauphine

The guy is just not good enough to win at the very highest level against Froome

- He sucked in 2013, true, and then changed his training regime under supervision of Steven de Jongh.
- In 2014 that time loss was exclusively due to mechanical problems in the cobble stage (obviously Nibali won that battle fair and square, but Contador lost also on the chasing group, having problems with his bike)
- In 2015 he prepared for a double Giro-Tour, hence there was not planned at all any top shape at the Giro. Then he crashed, had this shoulder injury and took the victory anyway. Remember also that magistic ride up onto the Mortirolo. I'm still of the impression that the Giro demaned something more from him than he actually planned and so the Tour was in serious jeopardy.
- In 2016 he won impressively the prologue in the Dauphiné and showed just a decent condition. It doesn't make sense being on a top form there already (and I won't say that the others were, it just a useless indication) given the hard third week that awaits the GC contenders. It's about planning your form peak.

But yeah, you can't deny the fact that he hasn't delivered at the Tour since a long while. Making me only more looking forward to 2017. Especially the way ho rode in Paris-Nice and Itzulia this year was highly promising.

 

[Jolene]

Re: Re:

I'm looking forward to watching a race again with the prospect of enjoying it. Will Burgos be televised?

Pretty sure the Bike Channel will have it, if you're in the UK

 

[warmfuzzies]

Next year, Contador will be 34. He's missed his window for another Tour victory.

 

[Sciocco]

Next year, Contador will be 34. He's missed his window for another Tour victory.

Cadel won his at 34. Contador still repeatedly shows up and wins, podiums, or top fives pretty much everything he finishes. Truly he shouldn't be considered a favorite though.

2016 - 3, 2, 2, 1, 5, dnf ---- likely will place well at Burgos, Vuelta, and whatever else he races too.
2015 - 2, 5, 4, 1, 1, 5
2014 - 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, dnf, 1, (plus a 6 and 34 at MT and GdL but Contador and one day races... )

Since it got me interested, the last stage race he finished and did not top five was CdD 2013. He did top five all the stage races before that that year though.

 

[DanielSong39]

Hope he finishes next year, maybe a top five if he gets a few breaks.

The attack on Verbier in 2009 was epic but that was 7 years ago.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re:

Hope he finishes next year, maybe a top five if he gets a few breaks.

The attack on Verbier in 2009 was epic but that was 7 years ago.

The trolls are out in force. It's pretty obvious than an in-form uninjured Contador is the only rival to Froome. Quintana's skill set is too limited. He will not be the next Froome, who appears to be the heir to Contador who was the heir to Lance (clinic aside). I won't lie; Contador would have lost time on the descent. But Sagan obviously wouldn't have worked with Froome to distance Contador, and Contador would have at least matched Froome on the TT. Just look at recent results. If he hadn't crashed, even the most rigorously rationalist "objectivists" like SeriousSam have to admit that, based on his spring form, Contador would be the closest challenger if not for his crashes. Fingers crossed for 2017.

 

[lenric]

The closest proxy we have for his form in the Tour is the Dauphine's performance. Which wasn't perfect. In fact, it was subpar. And I don't buy the *** of "oh, he has always been crappy". In 2014 he was marvelous. And since he changed his training methods in 2014, one can't help but think that this change may have let him be better in the Dauphine.

About the first ITT, I doubt Contador would nail it like Froome. About the last ITT I believe he could surpass Froome.
One way or another, while I don't believe that Contador would match Froome in the last week (where the british is supposed to peak, according to him), he'd be way closer than Quintana, and not only because of the ITT.

 

[Puccini]

Re: Re:

I'm looking forward to watching a race again with the prospect of enjoying it. Will Burgos be televised?

La Vuelta a Burgos es consciente de la importancia que tiene esta edición para el futuro y celebra que la imagen de la ciudad y provincia se proyecte al mundo gracias a la difusión diaria que tendrá la carrera. Los canales 13TV, Televisión Castilla y León, Televisión Gallega, Euskal Telebista, L’Equipe 21, Sky y Eleven Sport Network retransmitirán en directo de 15,00 a 16,40 horas el desarrollo de cada etapa de una Vuelta a Burgos

 

[Jakub]

So, Vuelta team. Any ideas? The last GT with the weak Tinkoff team. Unfortunately the race starts with TTT.

For the mountains there's not much left:
Roman Kreuziger is sure, he said he would ride Vuelta
Jesper Hansen and Robert Kiserlovski come into mind. No idea what's with Trofimov. Pawel Poljanski could be there. All in all it is tragic.

For flat I HOPE Sagan is not gonna be there. For the christ sake. Bennati.Bodnar must be included because of TTT, Boaro too. Valgren if recovered, maybe Blythe...

I am expecting Sergio to return, and I hope Jay McCarthey will find a good form and be there.

So something like this:

Alberto Contador
Roman Kreuziger
Daniele Bennati
Maciej Bodnar
Manuelle Boaro
Pawel Poljanski/Jay McCarthey
Jesper Hansen
Trofimov/Kiserlovski/Rovny
Sergio Paulinho/Michael Valgren

 

[damian13ster]

This is not a bad team at all. Poljanski, Kreuziger and Hansen are all likely to be in top 20-30 on the climbs, the first two will stick around the favorites for a long time. Trofimov might get back in shape and Bodnar + Boaro + Valgren is very decent on the flat. Kreuziger and Contador can also contribute in TTT. Very decent team overall, especially for Vuelta where the level is really low.


And coming back to Mortirolo: it looked great, was fun to watch on TV, but the climb was ridden painfully slow due to bad day by Aru. Just look at the numbers. It wasnt an indixation of great form, it was a weak competition (again, look at the numbers)

 

[RattaKuningas]

So, Vuelta team. Any ideas? The last GT with the weak Tinkoff team. Unfortunately the race starts with TTT.

For the mountains there's not much left:
Roman Kreuziger is sure, he said he would ride Vuelta
Jesper Hansen and Robert Kiserlovski come into mind. No idea what's with Trofimov. Pawel Poljanski could be there. All in all it is tragic.

For flat I HOPE Sagan is not gonna be there. For the christ sake. Bennati.Bodnar must be included because of TTT, Boaro too. Valgren if recovered, maybe Blythe...

I am expecting Sergio to return, and I hope Jay McCarthey will find a good form and be there.

So something like this:

Alberto Contador
Roman Kreuziger
Daniele Bennati
Maciej Bodnar
Manuelle Boaro
Pawel Poljanski/Jay McCarthey
Jesper Hansen
Trofimov/Kiserlovski/Rovny
Sergio Paulinho/Michael Valgren

I think Tinkoff will do fine one that flat TTT and will be among the GC teams one of the best.

 

[Valv.Piti]

You just gotta put a few time trialists in there and avoid the disaster. While Tinkoff is good, expect timelosses to his biggest rivals - Movistar, Sky and Orica.

 

[cellardoor]

The problem is that there will be no team spirit and some of his team mates will be riding for their future prospects. To be honest I do believe in Tossato and Bennati just giving their all even though I'm not aware of them having any special relationship with Contador. Will Bennati be ready for the Vuelta though or is he out for the rest of the year? I think this is a scenario where it's actually a bonus to have someone like Paulinho who perhaps isn't that great but will at least be loyal.

 

[Pennino]

In the Vuelta anyone can ride for themselves without a problem. Just not all of them at the same day. And Bennati will be recovered. Hope Paulinho and Jesus will be there also (according to PCS they will). For the TTT I'm not expecting big problems. Looking at what the other big guns' teams are bringing in it's nothing to seriously worry about.