An Admission

[BotanyBay]

This is the entire problem right here. Drug dealers and abusers laughing at honest sportsmen and organizers that hold sports to an ethical standard which allows everyone to enjoy it.....

I see Mr Papp's point. This promoter tries to keep his thing afloat by making an agreement of reciprocity between he and USAC, but he still wants to hang-on to his own rules. So he needs to choose. Stand alone in opposition and let the free market decide, or actually BE reciprocal. The promoter doesn't get to pick and choose his rules when he's looking for reciprocity.

 

[darkcloud]

Is this for real?
You have a drug dealer defending the doper he sold drugs to,
telling a race series he knows nothing about,
that they are "wrong" for excluding a convicted doper.

Did we just make a left turn into the Twilight Zone?
Joe Papp can stuff his opinion with his crimes.


Last I remember, CBR is not a sanctioned series so they can do whatever they like.
Good for CBR!

You, socalvelo, have hit the nail on the head. Just like child molesters, these guys have no sense of shame. Pathetic

 

[BotanyBay]

joe you are such a liar and snake in the grass, you encourage these riders to dope and then you turn around and tell authorities about them when it is convenient to you. You are a douche which is obvious to everyone, but to come to on these message boards with such a sanctimonious air about you is the epitome of desperate. But when you think about it, it is actually in line with the rest of the way you act so I don't think anyone is surprised.
You are so twisted that I bet you actually believe you are better than all these people you are helping bust.

So where do YOU stand? Pro-doping or anti-rat?

 

[socalvelo]

there's probably something

I see Mr Papp's point.

Which is?
Don't follow a misguided argument that tries to sidestep his inadequacies.

 

[darkcloud]

A guy that peddles dope and then rats out his customers is pathetic for both actions.
He sold the dope for personal gain and he turned informant for personal gain. What a tangled web some folks weave. Of course, all of this was avoidable. One positive and a rider should be out of cycling. Everyone knows the rules up front. Ain't that hard.

 

[BroDeal]

A guy that peddles dope and then rats out his customers is pathetic for both actions.
He sold the dope for personal gain and he turned informant for personal gain. What a tangled web some folks weave.

Congrats, Skippy. You have discovered the basis for capitalism, which is self-interest.

What is really hilarious is these douchebags who on one hand pretend to be outraged about doping but on the other hand are angry about caught riders breaking omerta.

 

[BotanyBay]

A guy that peddles dope and then rats out his customers is pathetic for both actions.
He sold the dope for personal gain and he turned informant for personal gain. What a tangled web some folks weave. Of course, all of this was avoidable. One positive and a rider should be out of cycling. Everyone knows the rules up front. Ain't that hard.

We're all responsible for our own actions. If I break a law in concert with another, and the other person is caught and then furnishes my identity to the police, I'm inextricably linked. Getting "ratted-out" is a consequence of my own actions. Mr. Papp would be no more responsible for my downfall than I am.

What you're advocating is what we've all been speaking-out against. Omerta. That's "Omerta defined".

I think you're totally wrong. His crime would be worse if he refused to help stop the progression of this sickness. By shutting-up and being quiet, dopers become enablers. Motivation is irrelevant and (ultimately) completely personal.

 

[darkcloud]

We are in agreement here. I'm all for dopers getting caught. I'm all for them ratting out others. I applaud riders, especially clean riders, shining the light on doping and dopers. And no, I'm actually NOT advocating omerta. I might be guilty of not being clear with the points I'm attempting to make but I certainly do not advocate omerta. I just find it pathetic, if understandable, that a dealer would do ANYTHING to save his own skin. I could respect the individual more if they turned evidence against others knowing that it would not get any leniency in their own sentencing. Pie in the sky...
I'm all for first time offenders being hit with HUGE $ penalties and a life time ban from the sport.
BTW, it's DC, not Skippy. OK, Shooter?

 

[dolophonic]

I am surprised by some of the locals that are racing on this team ... time heals all wounds i guess. Either that or... i don't know.

I don't think there is deal between CBR and USCF any more by the way.

 

[nolimit]

I'm am anti doping for sure. But that doesn't have anything do with how papp is trying to create a name for himself as some person who is helping the problem. He is really the lowest class of criminal imo.

I see it almost as one pedophile helping police catch other pedophiles. I think I am saying most people think of papp. Papp if you didn't want people doing drugs then you shouldn't have sold them, and encouraged people to dope, which is what you did. You got off on underground nature of it. You got an ego boost from thinking how people would ask you advice on doping.

 

[BotanyBay]

I'm am anti doping for sure. But that doesn't have anything do with how papp is trying to create a name for himself as some person who is helping the problem. He is really the lowest class of criminal imo.

I see it almost as one pedophile helping police catch other pedophiles. I think I am saying most people think of papp. Papp if you didn't want people doing drugs then you shouldn't have sold them, and encouraged people to dope, which is what you did. You got off on underground nature of it. You got an ego boost from thinking how people would ask you advice on doping.

So, in your esteemed opinion, has Mr. Papp helped the situation at all since his having been charged?

And whatever "got him off", don't you think that's central to the dysfunctionality of "doing illegal things"? If it didn't provide some kind of thrill, people wouldn't return to it. Perhaps there's a "thrill" out there that you hope you never discover, Mr. Christ.

 

[alanshearer]

I see Mr Papp's point. This promoter tries to keep his thing afloat by making an agreement of reciprocity between he and USAC, but he still wants to hang-on to his own rules. So he needs to choose. Stand alone in opposition and let the free market decide, or actually BE reciprocal. The promoter doesn't get to pick and choose his rules when he's looking for reciprocity.

Except there is no reciprocity agreement between CBR and USAC.

 

[amp300]

I'm am anti doping for sure. But that doesn't have anything do with how papp is trying to create a name for himself as some person who is helping the problem. He is really the lowest class of criminal imo.

I see it almost as one pedophile helping police catch other pedophiles. I think I am saying most people think of papp. Papp if you didn't want people doing drugs then you shouldn't have sold them, and encouraged people to dope, which is what you did. You got off on underground nature of it. You got an ego boost from thinking how people would ask you advice on doping.

There are many ways to make compelling arguments, comparing illegally selling pharmaceuticals for personal gain to pedophilia is not one of them.

 

[BotanyBay]

Except there is no reciprocity agreement between CBR and USAC.

End of argument (phew).

 

[nolimit]

I suppose he is helping, but, and this is the most important thing to remember: he is only doing all of this help himself. He does not want to go to jail, which will probably happen anyway.

And it also shocks me that anyone actually has his back and defends the way he treats people.

 

[BotanyBay]

I suppose he is helping, but, and this is the most important thing to remember: he is only doing all of this help himself. He does not want to go to jail, which will probably happen anyway.

And it also shocks me that anyone actually has his back and defends the way he treats people.

Given that you're posting history here is a total of FIVE posts, perhaps you might want to help us figure-out your own motivations for being here? Being that you're essentially talking about trust and loyalty.

 

[nolimit]

I'm not talking about myself here so why is my posting history relevant?
This has to do with facts. He is rolling over on people to help himself.
If you disagree with what I am saying about papp then you should say so.

My motivations are that I have seen this story playing out and it seems obvious what his real motivations are (saving his own ***) and then I come on this board and read people defending him and it blows my mind that people are not seeing what he is really up to.

 

[BotanyBay]

I'm not talking about myself here so why is my posting history relevant?
This has to do with facts. He is rolling over on people to help himself.
If you disagree with what I am saying about papp then you should say so.

My motivations are that I have seen this story playing out and it seems obvious what his real motivations are (saving his own ***) and then I come on this board and read people defending him and it blows my mind that people are not seeing what he is really up to.

So basically, what you're saying is that you're an Omerta apologist. You think that those who are caught should zip their lips and take the pinch.

I disagree with you, because by tunring state's evidence, he's also helping the very people he's "rolling over" on. Perhaps you're one of them, and perhaps you just don't recognize the favor he's doing for you (and others).

As I said in an earlier post, Papp is not responsible for what happens to these people. What happens will be the consequences of their own actions and no one else's.

Of course he's helping himself. If you were looking at prison time, and someone offered to go easier on you if you volunteered the info as opposed to forcing the government to spend much more time and money ferreting-out the dope ring, would you not do the same?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

So basically, what you're saying is that you're an Omerta apologist. You think that those who are caught should zip their lips and take the pinch.

I disagree with you, because by tunring state's evidence, he's also helping the very people he's "rolling over" on. Perhaps you're one of them, and perhaps you just don't recognize the favor he's doing for you (and others).

As I said in an earlier post, Papp is not responsible for what happens to these people. What happens will be the consequences of their own actions and no one else's.

Of course he's helping himself. If you were looking at prison time, and someone offered to go easier on you if you volunteered the info as opposed to forcing the government to spend much more time and money ferreting-out the dope ring, would you not do the same?

I'm not sure that that's what the poster's saying. I get the feeling that he's p*ssed because it may seem that Papp's getting kudos and high-fives, with the facts of him being a serious, user, distributor, enabler, etc. being ignored.

That may be my sentiments clouding my interpretation, but just because he flipped on some of his customers (who are cheaters as well) it shouldn't soften the facts. If that's what the post is trying to say, I agree.

I certainly wouldn't sh*t talk him for flipping, but I will sh*t talk him for being part of the problem.

 

[BotanyBay]

I'm not sure that that's what the poster's saying. I get the feeling that he's p*ssed because it may seem that Papp's getting kudos and high-fives, with the facts of him being a serious, user, distributor, enabler, etc. being ignored.

That may be my sentiments clouding my interpretation, but just because he flipped on some of his customers (who are cheaters as well) it shouldn't soften the facts. If that's what the post is trying to say, I agree.

I certainly wouldn't sh*t talk him for flipping, but I will sh*t talk him for being part of the problem.

I'm probably one of his bigger "supporters" here (if you can even consider defending his post-charge actions as truly "supportive"). I don't ever remember reading anyone giving him The Clinic's version of a high-five or kudos. I think that many are glad he's doing what he's doing, but the guy still has an upcoming date with the judge to worry about. He's not out of the water by any means.

This newb seems to be more peeved that Papp's not sitting with his head and wrists hung over in the stocks at the main menu.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I'm probably one of his bigger "supporters" here (if you can even consider defending his post-charge actions as truly "supportive"). I don't ever remember reading anyone giving him The Clinic's version of a high-five or kudos. I think that many are glad he's doing what he's doing, but the guy still has an upcoming date with the judge to worry about. He's not out of the water by any means.

This newb seems to be more peeved that Papp's not sitting with his head and wrists hung over in the stocks at the main menu.

I can certainly agree with the bolded. It would be plainly naive to expect him to go down alone. I AM glad he gave up info, and don't view him as a rat, I just don't allow desperate actions to lead to immediate absolution...

 

[MacRoadie]

Except there is no reciprocity agreement between CBR and USAC.

If I'm not mistaken, USAC rescinded ALL the reciprocity agreements they had with all the grass roots and independent organizations.

 

[nolimit]

JMBeaushrimp you said it better than I did.

 

[joe_papp]

If I'm not mistaken, USAC rescinded ALL the reciprocity agreements they had with all the grass roots and independent organizations.

Guess they need to update their website then...

9. Do USCF race count the same as CBR races?

Yes, they do. CBR has a reciprocity agreement with the United States Cycling Federation (USCF), which also includes the USCF's local Southern California association, the Southern California-Nevada Cycling Association (SCNCA). The upgrade requirements are the same, so as long as each race (whether CBR or USCF) fulfills their requirements, those races can be used towards a race category upgrade.

 

[socalvelo]

It's so sad people who should know better let themselves be shills for the likes of Papp.

You guys don't even have the facts straight.
He testified in the Landis case at the same time he continued to sell drugs
He was not turning a new leaf or breaking some "omerta" b.s. Let him try to revise history. We should all stick to the facts.

He's a 2nd rate doper that would have never made any news except for testifying in the Landis trial. Even in that trial, his testimony was worthless because he was a drug dealer. Zero credibility.

my original concern (which started at page 6) and motivation to post here was finding out about my local race scene- Kayle Leogrande and Suzanne Sonye.