Are you a Vegetarian?

[Tapeworm]

More nonsense. Plant based proteins = 3rd world proteins. There is a reason our species evolved on animal based proteins. You need to step back from this identity you've created for yourself (it's always in the screen name or signature with the vegetarians, isn't it? lol), and take some time to study human evolution.

Sorry, can you explain exactly how the proteins are different and how they lead to our superior evolution?

 

[stephens]

I thought everybody had read Guns, Germs, and Steel by now.

I was a vegetarian in my late teens and early 20s and never felt it robbed me of any performance. I just drifted away from it because it was such a pain in the *** at the time. These days it's a lot more common so I'd find it much easier. These days I rarely have meat for breakfast or lunch and if I have any meat at all, it's usually only a little at dinner time.

 

[Polyarmour]

More nonsense. Plant based proteins = 3rd world proteins. There is a reason our species evolved on animal based proteins. You need to step back from this identity you've created for yourself (it's always in the screen name or signature with the vegetarians, isn't it? lol), and take some time to study human evolution.

Even though this is a hotly debated topic, let's say you're right about humans evolving eating meat.

However you still can't say that humans will achieve peak health and physical performance by eating meat. Maybe humans just ate meat to survive in their local environments. As an analogy, my car will run just fine on 91 Octane fuel but it runs much better on 95 Octane fuel.

 

[Fieldsprint]

Even though this is a hotly debated topic, let's say you're right about humans evolving eating meat.

However you still can't say that humans will achieve peak health and physical performance by eating meat. Maybe humans just ate meat to survive in their local environments. As an analogy, my car will run just fine on 91 Octane fuel but it runs much better on 95 Octane fuel.

The onus is not on me to provide the superiority of of animal based protein. It has been our friend for 2.6 million years. In fact, it is silly to think we would even be here without animal based protein.

The burden of proof lies with anyone claiming plant based proteins are somehow magically superior.

They may be well intentioned, but they are ignorant to the biological value of protein, the protein efficiency ratio, the chemical score of protein, and the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score.

Your car analogy is a good one, but I am afraid it is backwards. We can survive on third world proteins, but we generally don't thrive on them (of course, there will always be some outliers that do ok with them).

Actually the debate amongst clinicians revolves less around protein, and more around fat. Many people still can't see past what is known as the diet/heart hypothesis (ie...saturated fat is inherently bad for you, etc), but the tide is slowly starting to turn...

 

[Polyarmour]

The onus is not on me to provide the superiority of of animal based protein. It has been our friend for 2.6 million years. In fact, it is silly to think we would even be here without animal based protein.

The burden of proof lies with anyone claiming plant based proteins are somehow magically superior.

They may be well intentioned, but they are ignorant to the biological value of protein, the protein efficiency ratio, the chemical score of protein, and the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score.

Your car analogy is a good one, but I am afraid it is backwards. We can survive on third world proteins, but we generally don't thrive on them (of course, there will always be some outliers that do ok with them).

Actually the debate amongst clinicians revolves less around protein, and more around fat. Many people still can't see past what is known as the diet/heart hypothesis (ie...saturated fat is inherently bad for you, etc), but the tide is slowly starting to turn...

What good is supercharged animal protein when you only need 50-80g per day? Protein is protein. It may be that plant protein is more difficult to synthesize and process than animal protein but when you only need 50-80g/ day you will make that number easily with "3rd world protein". On the other hand, very few people restrict their intake of meat to these meagre levels. We generally consume well in excess of this and as such take in lots of saturated fat with it. Excess calories taken in the form of meat and fat are taken at the expense of fibre.

I travel to Indonesia every year, very definitely a 3rd world country and my view is that their diet is way healthier than ours. Everything is eaten fresh, fruit, vegetables, nothing frozen, out of a can or box and very little meat because it's too expensive. I immediately feel better when I eat there. Give me that 3rd world diet any day of the week.

 

[oldborn]

"Going vegan gives you a positive for athletic performance,health, the environment and a negative for doping controls..'

Hi there!
durianrider respect for your fitness and mileage, chapeo

I am not a vegan why should i be 178/68, 37 y, lot of burgers and french fries (BMR very good) but i have a lot of friends who are. I do not know much about vegan style, just basics.

So i am having a two questions.
First; would you post that Contador picture, if you were with him on training (and take photos with him) just before scandal, smiling on picture like with that Caise rider? I mean you were riding and taking photos with him, and now that.

Second; imagine that you are on some island with no food at all just one banana(not tree), and cow, there is no chance to ecaping (you know sharks, current etc) and you know that ship who will rescue you is comming for two months.

My question is would you kill and eat that nice cow in order to stay alive and coming home to your family, or you would die in agony and pain just for principles.

If you would choose death, respect to you.

Thanks and sorry for grammar.

 

[Tapeworm]

My question is would you kill and eat that nice cow in order to stay alive and coming home to your family, or you would die in agony and pain just for principles...

If it was a question of survival... you'd be on the menu.

Maybe with some fava beans.

 

[oldborn]

If it was a question of survival... you'd be on the menu.

Maybe with some fava beans.

Yes cannibalism is great thing, hey i am 68kg, no fat, i am not on that island, just try to imagine, is it hard?

 

[lostintime]

There is no right or wrong way to eat ..... no good or bad . All that is just our own insecurities talking. No need to take offense, because we're all in the same boat.

Humans evolving is way beyond our understanding, not because they just ate meat, vegetables, or anything particular.

Humans are broken to the core, all of us, with few exceptions. Humans are violent, not just in our actions, but in our thoughts and attitudes. We think we are so superior to the animals and plants we kill, but are we? I see no difference. We eat like pigs, screw like bunny rabbits, and crap like cows. Yeah, we are so superior

The so called "food chain" is no chain at all. This is mans rationalization for declaring themselves "king". . . .therefore it's OK to do anything we want in order to feed or corrupt minds and bodies.

We think we feel good for our food choices, whatever they may be. . . . but it's fools contentment. Maybe we could be grateful we have anything to eat at all .... let alone to be what we call "alive".

 

[oldborn]

[/URL]

There is no right or wrong way to eat ..... no good or bad . All that is just our own insecurities talking. No need to take offense, because we're all in the same boat.

Humans evolving is way beyond our understanding, not because they just ate meat, vegetables, or anything particular.

Humans are broken to the core, all of us, with few exceptions. Humans are violent, not just in our actions, but in our thoughts and attitudes. We think we are so superior to the animals and plants we kill, but are we? I see no difference. We eat like pigs, screw like bunny rabbits, and crap like cows. Yeah, we are so superior

The so called "food chain" is no chain at all. This is mans rationalization for declaring themselves "king". . . .therefore it's OK to do anything we want in order to feed or corrupt minds and bodies.

We think we feel good for our food choices, whatever they may be. . . . but it's fools contentment. Maybe we could be grateful we have anything to eat at all .... let alone to be what we call "alive".

Hey you have been stolen my words

Yes, my point is somewhere close.

durianrider do you know some tribes in South America or Africa who are vegans? Or some other poor countries, do they have vegans at all? Vegans are western "rich and wisdom" world idea, you have a choice to go in shop to buy a vegan food coz you have money, job, home etc. I do not think that others have that choice, so what about them they are doing something rong in order to survive.
Do you know how people survive all that long, just eating salads, beens etc.? No

Watch that movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCweDNYfo3Q&feature=related, that was taken before 16-17 years a go in the heart of Europe, it is Concentration Camp in Bosnia. I have a very good friend of mine whos friends and relatives been there. I am not from Bosnia, but having beeing around. Do you know what was their main opsesion during their time in such a horrible conditions?

By night they were playing among themselves a "menu" game, they imagined all kinds of food, and drinks. It was painfull, but it gave them a hope!

So my point is maybe extremis, but you just think that you can choose.

Stay well!

P.S. Instead of spending money on healthy food, try to donate it to poeple who have not that choice.

 

[Polyarmour]

[/URL]

durianrider do you know some tribes in South America or Africa who are vegans? Or some other poor countries, do they have vegans at all? Vegans are western "rich and wisdom" world idea, you have a choice to go in shop to buy a vegan food coz you have money, job, home etc. I do not think that others have that choice, so what about them they are doing something rong in order to survive. Do you know how people survive all that long, just eating salads, beens etc.? No

Actually yes. Try reading up on the Tarahumara Indians who survive on corn and beans and are renowned for their endurance. In fact before the arrival of the white man, American Indians were largely vegetarian.

 

[oldborn]

Actually yes. Try reading up on the Tarahumara Indians who survive on corn and beans and are renowned for their endurance. In fact before the arrival of the white man, American Indians were largely vegetarian.

Yes that s way they loved buffalo meat, white man actualy organized army led munition supported big hunting festivals to kill every single buffalo in order to defeat indians. Do you know how many tribes were actualy vegetarian?

I did not know that Tarahumara, are they still arround?

 

[Polyarmour]

Yes that s way they loved buffalo meat, white man actualy organized army led munition supported big hunting festivals to kill every single buffalo in order to defeat indians. Do you know how many tribes were actualy vegetarian?

I did not know that Tarahumara, are they still arround?

American Indians and vegetarianism.
http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

Tarahumara Indians
http://www.questconnect.org/tara_home.htm

 

[Fieldsprint]

Actually yes. Try reading up on the Tarahumara Indians who survive on corn and beans and are renowned for their endurance. In fact before the arrival of the white man, American Indians were largely vegetarian.

Here is a book for you Poly, since I'm sure you are interested in helping others seek out the best information, and not just promoting some wacky agenda

Nutritional Anthropology: Contemporary Approaches to Diet and Culture

Read the chapter entitled Nutrition and Health in Agriculturalists and Huntergatherers: A Case Study of Two Pre-Historic Populations

Bet you won't think so highly of the corn and beans diet afterwards.

 

[Tapeworm]

What was the life expectancy of pre-historic man again?

 

[oldborn]

American Indians and vegetarianism.
http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

Tarahumara Indians
http://www.questconnect.org/tara_home.htm

Nice article from Pocahontas, i was thinking about relavant/neutral journal and you offer me a Vegeterian Resource Group, but ok.

Another way that we do not choose what we gonna eat, exept if you are living in some rich town in Europe. Does Eskimos or Inuit are vegans? I do not think so? But that not my point. There is more religius, idelaistic aproach to that question, while some of Hinduism components are vegans, they are still killing some people around, yes?

Why Muslims and other do not eat pig meat? Is it unhelathy, pig is dirty?

Nooooooooo, there is no water and food for them in such a enviroment, so thay choose goats and sheeps instead. Coz pig will die travelling 50 km per day.

So remember you do not choose what you gonna eat, this is illusion, ask those guys on video.

Respect to vegans and vegetarians. I will stay on burgers, if cataclism occur i will eat everything in order to survive like humans for centuries.

BTW go to Africa and try to be a vegan, and give some beans and salads for those children. It is easy to live rich on west.

Stay well, and no ofense mate!

 

[marathon marke]

American Indians and vegetarianism.
http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

Tarahumara Indians
http://www.questconnect.org/tara_home.htm

Good links, Polyarmour. It's amazing how many people believe that bison was an original part of the American Indian diet. The introduction of horses changed everything, and in a very short time.

 

[Fieldsprint]

What was the life expectancy of pre-historic man again?

"Palaeolithic man may have died earlier than we do now, but he didn't die of bad nutrition." -- Mark Thomas, professor of evolutionary genetics at University College London.

Evolution. Embrace it. Or for god's sake (pun intended), read up on it a bit.

Evolution is a unifying concept for science … because of its importance across the disciplines of science. Scientific disciplines with a historical component, such as astronomy, geology, biology, and anthropology, cannot be taught with integrity if evolution is not emphasized. -- National Science Teachers Association

http://www.nsta.org/about/positions/evolution.aspx

 

[oldborn]

Good links, Polyarmour. It's amazing how many people believe that bison was an original part of the American Indian diet. The introduction of horses changed everything, and in a very short time.

North American Indians, Aborigin people etc were not farmers, they were prety laisy in fact they just collect fruits, hunted, and move all around their country. period.

 

[Polyarmour]

Nice article from Pocahontas, i was thinking about relavant/neutral journal and you offer me a Vegeterian Resource Group, but ok.

Hey I had to wade through all your dodgy leg strength references

Another way that we do not choose what we gonna eat, exept if you are living in some rich town in Europe. Does Eskimos or Inuit are vegans? I do not think so? But that not my point. There is more religius, idelaistic aproach to that question, while some of Hinduism components are vegans, they are still killing some people around, yes?

You eat what you can to survive. When you have more than you need you can afford to get fussy. The Old Testament is filled with restrictions on eating too.

Why Muslims and other do not eat pig meat? Is it unhelathy, pig is dirty?

Nooooooooo, there is no water and food for them in such a enviroment, so thay choose goats and sheeps instead. Coz pig will die travelling 50 km per day.

Pork is banned from being eaten in the Old Testament and the Koran. Your explanation might be a reason to prefer goats and sheep, but why ban pork? I think I prefer the tapeworm explanation. That is, consuming pork used to be dangerous and that's why it was banned. We don't have a true carnivores stomach. True carnivores can eat any meat, raw, without consequences. We have to cook it and even then we have to be very careful.

 

[Polyarmour]

Here is a book for you Poly, since I'm sure you are interested in helping others seek out the best information, and not just promoting some wacky agenda

Nutritional Anthropology: Contemporary Approaches to Diet and Culture

Read the chapter entitled Nutrition and Health in Agriculturalists and Huntergatherers: A Case Study of Two Pre-Historic Populations

Bet you won't think so highly of the corn and beans diet afterwards.

It's on my list, thanks

 

[oldborn]

Hey I had to wade through all your dodgy leg strength references

You eat what you can to survive. When you have more than you need you can afford to get fussy. The Old Testament is filled with restrictions on eating too.
Pork is banned from being eaten in the Old Testament and the Koran. Your explanation might be a reason to prefer goats and sheep, but why ban pork? I think I prefer the tapeworm explanation. That is, consuming pork used to be dangerous and that's why it was banned. We don't have a true carnivores stomach. True carnivores can eat any meat, raw, without consequences. We have to cook it and even then we have to be very careful.

Hey thanx for reading i am sure that Fergie is waiting somewhere

Poly, how come that eating pigs is not dangereus in some other regions? Listen how can you fed and travel with pigs in reagions where is prety much like in microwave oven.

Do you realy think that God, Alah, etc. care about diet, maybe he is a cook? Another example is circumcision (that is nasty word for spelling and writing), one explanation why Jews, Muslims, and other people doing it long before it become popular is coz medical reason coz circumcision could stop infections, and not for stoping people j......, or some boy / becoming man nonsense.

But we are now on more sticky subject than burgers and beans

Stay well Poly, what does it mean Polyarmour?

 

[Polyarmour]

Hey thanx for reading i am sure that Fergie is waiting somewhere

Poly, how come that eating pigs is not dangereus in some other regions? Listen how can you fed and travel with pigs in reagions where is prety much like in microwave oven.

Do you realy think that God, Alah, etc. care about diet, maybe he is a cook? Another example is circumcision (that is nasty word for spelling and writing), one explanation why Jews, Muslims, and other people doing it long before it become popular is coz medical reason coz circumcision could stop infections, and not for stoping people j......, or some boy / becoming man nonsense.

But we are now on more sticky subject than burgers and beans

Stay well Poly, what does it mean Polyarmour?

Why pigs were banned, who really knows? I was just giving my opinion, that perhaps it was related to parasites. Maybe other parts of the world didn't have a problem with parasites? Who knows why all those eating rules ended up in the Koran and Torah/Old Testament, they defy logic really. I don't want to be the person defending them.

Polyarmour means "many loves", but really it's a misnomer, after my wife, my family and cycling it tapers off pretty quickly.

 

[oldborn]

Polyarmour means "many loves", but really it's a misnomer, after my wife, my family and cycling it tapers off pretty quickly.

I have been reading this i still don t get it. L amour is French word for love, and you are armour? What is misnomer?

Well i notice that thread has 5 stars rating huuuurrrrraaaaaaaa! It should be called "Are you hungry"

My final point is (it sounds clever); while durianrider and other wegans in Australia and N. America eat healthy, rich, organic, food they do not care a sh... that their are living on someone else land.

So if you want to be a harmony, neverstoped circle of life, non violence, greenpeace, global warming mumble jumble idealist, sell a house (and bike too) and join Aborigines or Indians if they are still there. Instead living on their land and pretend to be a animal and nature lovers.

We don t choose anything.

Hypocracy is great thing!

 

[Elegant Degenerate]

It would be nice if you didn't hijack every thread for a grossly off-topic chat.