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Reckon its mostly a case of mistiming the shape a bit considering he also won La Vuelta.Dekker_Tifosi said:Very weird Giro by him. Maybe last year was just once in a lifetime form
Dekker_Tifosi said:Very weird Giro by him. Maybe last year was just once in a lifetime form
His vuelta shape was good but not that great. He got dropped by guys like Mas numerous times and his advantage mostly formed because nobody else had a consistently good shape. All of valverde, Mas, Lopez and Quintana had days where they were stronger than Yates without Yates actually having a proper off day. (And really those names aren't even that scary) However all those guys had mediocre to bad days too so they couldn't really profit. Moreover the route really suited him. There was basically one proper mountain stage raced hard before the final climb already and I'd argue his performance there was pretty much in line with what he has shown in this years giroValv.Piti said:Reckon its mostly a case of mistiming the shape a bit considering he also won La Vuelta.Dekker_Tifosi said:Very weird Giro by him. Maybe last year was just once in a lifetime form
But its not unrealistic at all that he never reaches the level he had the first two weeks in the Giro at all..
Gigs_98 said:His vuelta shape was good but not that great. He got dropped by guys like Mas numerous times and his advantage mostly formed because nobody else had a consistently good shape. All of valverde, Mas, Lopez and Quintana had days where they were stronger than Yates without Yates actually having a proper off day. (And really those names aren't even that scary) However all those guys had mediocre to bad days too so they couldn't really profit. Moreover the route really suited him. There was basically one proper mountain stage raced hard before the final climb already and I'd argue his performance there was pretty much in line with what he has shown in this years giroValv.Piti said:Reckon its mostly a case of mistiming the shape a bit considering he also won La Vuelta.Dekker_Tifosi said:Very weird Giro by him. Maybe last year was just once in a lifetime form
But its not unrealistic at all that he never reaches the level he had the first two weeks in the Giro at all..
Tonton said:I'm on the fence here. On one hand, Simon's '18 season convinced me that he had gone to the next level, from a top-5 hopeful to the top of the food chain. And now t's almost like I see the old Simon, the one that he was before he became the new Simon.
I don't believe the bad prep talks, because he had two great preps in a row last year. We see '19 Adam becoming a new Adam. Prep is not an issue, on the contrary. That prep talk doesn't cut the mustard.
One would wonder if he got worse or if the others got better. Like the best Nibali since the '14 TdF. The route isn't perfect for him, but it can't explain that drop in GC relevance.
The brash comments before the race maybe show a "I made it" attitude, maybe he got cocky, maybe lazy in the off-season, maybe he thought he was the sh*t.
Weird. That's not the '18 Simon. Things don't add up.
Lequack said:As someone said, this must be the year of Adam.
Davesta said:Tonton said:I'm on the fence here. On one hand, Simon's '18 season convinced me that he had gone to the next level, from a top-5 hopeful to the top of the food chain. And now t's almost like I see the old Simon, the one that he was before he became the new Simon.
I don't believe the bad prep talks, because he had two great preps in a row last year. We see '19 Adam becoming a new Adam. Prep is not an issue, on the contrary. That prep talk doesn't cut the mustard.
One would wonder if he got worse or if the others got better. Like the best Nibali since the '14 TdF. The route isn't perfect for him, but it can't explain that drop in GC relevance.
The brash comments before the race maybe show a "I made it" attitude, maybe he got cocky, maybe lazy in the off-season, maybe he thought he was the sh*t.
Weird. That's not the '18 Simon. Things don't add up.
I think this is generally referred to as 'regression to the mean'...it's likely that last year's Giro was an outstanding level of performance that won't be consistently reached again, and that his slightly lesser (but wiser) level in the Vuelta and this year's Giro is closer to his average or 'normal' level...
Of course, that doesn't mean he's not a contender or a threat for Grand Tours - every GT contender has exactly the same issue, and Simon isn't that far away from the top even here - he's just missing those couple of percentage points that would allow him to be competitive aginst Carapaz/Nibali etc, and he's still riding to a solid top-10...
Brullnux said:What's most disappointed me isn't his form, it can happen that you go into a race and misjudge it completely (even though he was awesome on the first stage), but the way he's raced since it became clear that he wasn't fighting for a top place anymore. He's never gone for a breakaway or a stage win like mollema or zakarin, but sort of plugged away in 10th or 9th or 8th place, which compared to last year's fearless attacking is quite disappointing. I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, as surely a stage win would've been better than 8th place? The stage to antholz looked excellent for him.
yaco said:Brullnux said:What's most disappointed me isn't his form, it can happen that you go into a race and misjudge it completely (even though he was awesome on the first stage), but the way he's raced since it became clear that he wasn't fighting for a top place anymore. He's never gone for a breakaway or a stage win like mollema or zakarin, but sort of plugged away in 10th or 9th or 8th place, which compared to last year's fearless attacking is quite disappointing. I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, as surely a stage win would've been better than 8th place? The stage to antholz looked excellent for him.
First, Yates wasn't going well enough to win a stage, second GC guys would not allow him into a break and finally if not for Hamilton's assistance he would have come 12th to 15th in the GC.
Brullnux said:yaco said:Brullnux said:What's most disappointed me isn't his form, it can happen that you go into a race and misjudge it completely (even though he was awesome on the first stage), but the way he's raced since it became clear that he wasn't fighting for a top place anymore. He's never gone for a breakaway or a stage win like mollema or zakarin, but sort of plugged away in 10th or 9th or 8th place, which compared to last year's fearless attacking is quite disappointing. I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, as surely a stage win would've been better than 8th place? The stage to antholz looked excellent for him.
First, Yates wasn't going well enough to win a stage, second GC guys would not allow him into a break and finally if not for Hamilton's assistance he would have come 12th to 15th in the GC.
You're really telling me he wasn't going well enough to beat Chaves or Nans Peters? The stage to ponte di legno should've been the turning point for yates: ease up, lose another four minutes or so, end up ten or more minutes behind and go for a stage, rather than chasing back endlessly for absolutely nothing. Formolo was getting into a lot of breaks and he was only three or four minutes behind Yates. Don't see how Hamilton comes in here, as his support is what I was getting at when I said that he was plugging away. To my eyes, he could still climb better than Formolo or Pello Bilbao or Vendrame. It was a poor approach from orica to go full zubeldia this giro. Chaves' stage win saved them big time
IndianCyclist said:Back to the drawing board for him and look at what went wrong. His performance is unreliable considering the last 2 Giros.
yaco said:Brullnux said:yaco said:Brullnux said:What's most disappointed me isn't his form, it can happen that you go into a race and misjudge it completely (even though he was awesome on the first stage), but the way he's raced since it became clear that he wasn't fighting for a top place anymore. He's never gone for a breakaway or a stage win like mollema or zakarin, but sort of plugged away in 10th or 9th or 8th place, which compared to last year's fearless attacking is quite disappointing. I don't understand the reasoning behind it either, as surely a stage win would've been better than 8th place? The stage to antholz looked excellent for him.
First, Yates wasn't going well enough to win a stage, second GC guys would not allow him into a break and finally if not for Hamilton's assistance he would have come 12th to 15th in the GC.
You're really telling me he wasn't going well enough to beat Chaves or Nans Peters? The stage to ponte di legno should've been the turning point for yates: ease up, lose another four minutes or so, end up ten or more minutes behind and go for a stage, rather than chasing back endlessly for absolutely nothing. Formolo was getting into a lot of breaks and he was only three or four minutes behind Yates. Don't see how Hamilton comes in here, as his support is what I was getting at when I said that he was plugging away. To my eyes, he could still climb better than Formolo or Pello Bilbao or Vendrame. It was a poor approach from orica to go full zubeldia this giro. Chaves' stage win saved them big time
You don't seem to understand that Hamilton a 2nd year pro riding his first GT carried Yates on his back for the last of the Giro - Hamilton was more likely to win a stage from a break than Yates - And even if Yates dropped another few minutes he still wouldn't be allowed into a break.