Cav disqualified!

[blackcat]

While it is true that playing strictly by the rules, Cavendish should be disqualified, it disappoints me that Hushovd has to file complaints to win the green jersey.

It's quite clear from the footage that Cavendish would have beat Hushovd even if the latter had not been boxed in, so if this incident ends up determining the winner of the green jersey, Hushovd will have won it in the offices and not on the road.

actually its not clear, as Cav took the apex of the corner, when he was overlapping Thor's wheel.

Thor never had the chance to open up his sprint, because he would have been chopped into the barrier.

Now, if you thesis is, it is clear Thor could never beat Cav if they have to jump in a sprint like this - by the evidence we have seen this Tour.

I am in complete agreement with you.

Cav always is the first to point the finger, and uses his profile and media voice, as the opportunity to abuse riders like Kenny Robert van Hummel, and Piet Rooijakkers. So, lets be clear, Cav is hypocritical in the extreme.

Cav can win any sprint in the last 200 metres, if all riders had their nose in the wind, and launched at 60kmph, and launched at the same point, all the same position, Cav wins by 3 clear lengths, if you do not make it a sprint with tactical positioning and slipstream.

He is so far ahead of everyone.

Columbia have not played this well. They should have not been playing poker in stage 3 when Voeckler won.

 

[fairplay]

a) should it have been ALL of his points and as is a 13pt pretty much unnasaible gap to green
or the positions reversed and cav and thors finishing positions changed over (cos lets face it, cav did not gain 140 spots in doing it)

Of course it should be all the points, and it is not about how many spots won or lost but about punishing unsportsmanlike behavior and creating a potential dangerous situation. You don't invent new rules like reversing positions to suit your "guy".

 

[UTFan2]

I found the article on the home page interesting in that it states "Hushovd tried to pass between Cavendish and the barriers on the right side of the road. The barriers edged further onto the road and Hushovd had no space."

 

[Anonymous]

if you look at the road cav barely moves off line.. he goes a bit to the right when he looks left, but anyone who has ever riden a bike will tell you that happens...

i dunno.. frankly i dont give a flying fig about green, i just wanna see cav win in paris, but im very dissapointed in thor.. i thought he was a better man than that...

 

[elapid]

It looks like Cav pretty much kept his line and the barriers caused the squeeze, and the Hincapie-yellow jersey situation pretty much dictated that Columbia wanted to hold up the sprint as much as possible. Pretty sketchy decision considering what some sprinters have been allowed to get away with in the past.

 

[blackcat]

so ok.. if cav was in the wrong

a) should it have been ALL of his points and as is a 13pt pretty much unnasaible gap to green
or the positions reversed and cav and thors finishing positions changed over (cos lets face it, cav did not gain 140 spots in doing it)

b) should thor just take it on the chin and get ready for more pts up for grabs or should thor run whining to the judges.. ooooh.. somefinished in front of me on friday... oooooh.. cav nudged me near the barriers on saturday..

I hope cav does win in paris, and i hope thor finishes 5th and loses the damn jersey just so he can moan at all the people who dared finishing in front of him.. ive always like thor, the wife loves him, but even she thinks he should just man up, stop moaning and get on with the next stage..

no the rules are right

16 points is easily assailable.

Think about a stage win. It is a 35 point finish, and the gaps open quickly.

35,30,26,24,22,20.

The sprinting field this year, is about as deep as any year.

Cav, Farrar, Boonen, Freire, Bennati, Ciolek, Hushovd, Hutarovich, Van Avermaet, Rojas Gil, Fernandez, Napolitano.

Cav is so dominant at the moment, because 1, he is the fastest by 3 lengths, clear lengths, in the last 200 metres, and 2, his team always gives him a clear run at the finish.

 

[cycutza]

What an absolute debarcle. Finally some spirit in this damn race and the bloke gets robbed for it. I'm not a fan of either rider, although I've enjoyed the amount of money Cav has been winning me, but i think god of whiners is a bit too nice, god of absolute wan-kers seems fairer. What a tool.

Okay, so now, what do people think about Cav getting green back? Not sure of whats on offer so if someone can help here. Are there enough intermediate sprints from now to Paris that Cav could claim? Will columbia even bother? They could hold everything together tonight until the first intermediate, also on Stages 19 and 20. Could that be enough as well as a paris win to get back green? (Assuming Thor is second at every point as always)

 

[blackcat]

if you look at the road cav barely moves off line.. he goes a bit to the right when he looks left, but anyone who has ever riden a bike will tell you that happens...

i dunno.. frankly i dont give a flying fig about green, i just wanna see cav win in paris, but im very dissapointed in thor.. i thought he was a better man than that...

incorrect, he takes the apex. It is a corner finish. You must co-ordinate your line, as a circumference to the inside barrier. Not cut the apex, and take a tangent.

What he did, was going off his line.

If you remember circa 2005 Hushovd lost the green by not letting in a rider, and getting dq'ed. I think it was someone like Bennati, but I think that is wrong. I cannot remember the rider he pushed in. May have been a FDJ rider like Seb Chavanel.

But, if you finish Hushovd's run at green, and it cant be 2005, cos I think he won green in 2005, but, if you dq Hushovd who loses green on the back of one sprint for 35 points, then this is the proper decision.

 

[fairplay]

If you remember circa 2005 Hushovd lost the green by not letting in a rider, and getting dq'ed. I think it was someone like Bennati, but I think that is wrong. I cannot remember the rider he pushed in.

I remember it well, it was in 2006, and the rider was Bernhard Eisel riding for FDJ. Thor lost 24 points (I think) and was out of the race for the green jersey.

The big difference between that incident and this years was that there was no obvious attempt to block the other rider but rather how the sprint played out (IMO). For sure though it was just as dangerous.

 

[runninboy]

if you look at the road cav barely moves off line.. he goes a bit to the right when he looks left, but anyone who has ever riden a bike will tell you that happens...

i dunno.. frankly i dont give a flying fig about green, i just wanna see cav win in paris, but im very dissapointed in thor.. i thought he was a better man than that...

I like Thor as well and i was pretty shocked at his behaviour yesterday.
Sprinting has always been about guys who can make quick adjustments because you rarely get alot of room, guys are always all over the road.
If someone TRULY believes CAV slammed the door on thor i wonder if you were just as upset at Abdujaparov(spelling)?
Remember how he looked down while he sprinted and would go from one side of the road to the other and was very rarely relegated? In fact i think he ran into barriers more often than he was relegated )))

 

[blackcat]

I remember it well, it was in 2006, and the rider was Bernhard Eisel riding for FDJ. Thor lost 24 points (I think) and was out of the race for the green jersey.

The big difference between that incident and this years was that there was no obvious attempt to block the other rider but rather how the sprint played out (IMO). For sure though it was just as dangerous.

I was conflicted. It was a dangerous sprint, but it was not Thor's fault, there was a genuine "step" in the barriers, and frankly, if you are sprinting to win, you cannot let a rider in.

I thought Eisel was very supple on the bike. Good memory fairplay, I just CNBF'ed to go thru the Tour archives are work out who it was. I sort of reverse engineered the memory by using the period, then realising it was not 2005, because Thor won green, and it must have been a MCewen year, then the FDJ came into the memory, because I had an inkling it was not Bennati. If I worked further reverse engineering it, I knew Seb Chavanel did not debut in the Tour until recently.

Cavendish's was not too bad, it is the type of thing MCewen pulls every day of the week, and all the Australian sprinters, none of them can sprint in a straight line. Cavendish can, and is very fair, always sprints in a straight line. This time, too smart by half, never threw a hook at Thor, but did run into his line, he intentionally boxed him, and then he took the apex of the corner.

If it was Mcewen, some may say he was sprinting smartly. Stupid thing about Cav, he was never gonna lose the sprint to Thor because he can put 5 lengths into him if they jump from 50 kmph.

I think part of the problem was, the riders at the front were putting on the breaks, hoping Hincapie would take yellow. I think that is the real reason Cav pulled this ****, trying to be too smart, because Columbia had "pulled" a sprint, with the breaks on.

But Cav has no right saying Rooijkakkers was dangerous, when Rooijakkers had the rider ahead of him, believe he was Ciolek, his rear tyre, perfectly aligned to his front tyre, so there is no geometrical equation, where Rooijakkers could be pushing into a Columbia train. Cav has potted Kenny Robert Van Hummel since 2007 Driedaagse de Panne, and likes to criticise others. He has to own this. And pushing Rooijakkers in stage 1 or 2.

 

[blackcat]

I like Thor as well and i was pretty shocked at his behaviour yesterday.
Sprinting has always been about guys who can make quick adjustments because you rarely get alot of room, guys are always all over the road.
If someone TRULY believes CAV slammed the door on thor i wonder if you were just as upset at Abdujaparov(spelling)?
Remember how he looked down while he sprinted and would go from one side of the road to the other and was very rarely relegated? In fact i think he ran into barriers more often than he was relegated )))

but Thor lost the green in 2006, because of a decision, which was more stringent, that this one.

So fair go for Thor. He has every right to protest.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Here is a link to the overhead video. Watch for yourself.

Having seen it several times, I don't think he should be relegated. I think what did him in was the way he looked first right, then left, to make sure where Thor was. I'm guessing the judges saw that and not that Cav was sprinting for the win, but trying to make sure Thor didn't beat him.

The crappy thing here is that it looked to me like Thor has been getting stronger in the race, while Cav may have been fading a little. We could have seen a situation heading into Paris with Thor in green and a handful of points ahead of Cav with a showdown. But now, it's not likely to be.

Are you talking about Thor? Wasn't he whining yesterday at Velits who dared outsprint him to the line? D

Uh, did you see the interview afterward? When asked about it Thor said they talked after, he likes the guy, and all was cool.

 

[scott22]

I am not seeing it. I don't really care one way or the other, no bias for or against either sprinter, but I have watched it several times and I still don't see it. Looks to me like Cav stays straight and Thor gets squeezed into the barriers. I mean....they are sprinting, so BOTH bikes are moving back and forth pretty fast, but since there is a bend in the road and/or the barriers widen/bulge out....it is nearly impossible to tell if Cav intentionally cut Thor off. It doesn't seem blatant enough to be penalized.

Exactly!!!

 

[Karlsen]

Disclaimer: I'm norwegian!

I feel that i have to defend Thor here!
After yesterdays stage he told norwegian TV that he was ashamed over himself for shouting at Velits. It was in the heat of the momemt.
Today, Cav was DQ before Cervelo had the chanche to complain.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm curious where all the people who said Theo Bos shouldn't have been punished for tossing Darryl Impey are, and what they think of this. If you'll recall, in the most negligent riding I have ever seen in my life.

Three months later and Impey is still recovering from his injuries, still trying to manage his pain, and just now back on the bike riding.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

What a load of crap. Does anyone think that if the situation was reversed that Cav would not be running his yap at full blast, complaining to anyone who would listen and a lot who would not. Big Mouth got what he had coming to him. His fans should man up and take it on the chin.

I agree. Cav got what was coming to him. Not thor's fault

 

[CerveloFan]

Obviously I'm biased, but I think Hushovd's complaint was fair - Cav could have beat him sprinting full out, but moved over when Hushovd started his sprint (he looks at him first).

Anyway, I'm glad Hushovd has made the competition for Green interesting - maybe the only interesting thing about this Tour

And Hushovd did say he'd talked to Velits after yesterday's stage - seemingly more than Cav can say about any of his competitors.

Columbia has whined as much as anyone this Tour (boohoo, no one else feels like chasing down a breakaway to help Cav win)

 

[runninboy]

Here is a link to the overhead video.

Uh, did you see the interview afterward? When asked about it Thor said they talked after, he likes the guy, and all was cool.

Yes i did thank you very much
i was referring to his initial gut reaction which was all about him. He had to have a conversation to realize that the world does not revolve around him and that Velits just was doing what he is paid to do as is Thor.
His initial reaction is very child like .

 

[forty four]

cavs a punk and does not show much honor or sportsmanship in his words or actions no shock to me he needs to grow into his shoes a bit and behave like a man.

 

[blackcat]

Obviously I'm biased, but I think Hushovd's complaint was fair - Cav could have beat him sprinting full out, but moved over when Hushovd started his sprint (he looks at him first).

Anyway, I'm glad Hushovd has made the competition for Green interesting - maybe the only interesting thing about this Tour

And Hushovd did say he'd talked to Velits after yesterday's stage - seemingly more than Cav can say about any of his competitors.

Columbia has whined as much as anyone this Tour (boohoo, no one else feels like chasing down a breakaway to help Cav win)

CerveloFan, why did he say he talked to Velits?

ta

 

[blackcat]

Here is a link to the overhead video. Watch for yourself.

Having seen it several times, I don't think he should be relegated. I think what did him in was the way he looked first right, then left, to make sure where Thor was. I'm guessing the judges saw that and not that Cav was sprinting for the win, but trying to make sure Thor didn't beat him.

The crappy thing here is that it looked to me like Thor has been getting stronger in the race, while Cav may have been fading a little. We could have seen a situation heading into Paris with Thor in green and a handful of points ahead of Cav with a showdown. But now, it's not likely to be.


Uh, did you see the interview afterward? When asked about it Thor said they talked after, he likes the guy, and all was cool.

Alpe, compare it to when Thor was relegated. Thor never even moved off his line, but held his position.

Thor lost green in 2006 because he was dq'ed. That puts it in context.

 

[runninboy]

Columbia has whined as much as anyone this Tour (boohoo, no one else feels like chasing down a breakaway to help Cav win)

What bothers me about this point of view is everyone on this site is complaining about the lack of GC action, All the favourites instead of taking the initiative are biding their time. They would rather lose by not doing anything than by getting beat trying something that someone is gonna criticisize them for.

AND then people DEFEND the same behaviour when it comes to sprinting!!!
Why should anyone other than Columbia chase? CAV is faster than we are so why bother?
It is sound strategy for sprinting but somehow all wrong for someone like Evans???
If you never try you never win. Sprinting or GC.

 

[CerveloFan]

Hushovd's interview from yesterday (about Velits):

"I had a sprint, but I was really tired in the end and when I saw he passed me I got a little upset but, nothing wrong, he did a normal sprint, it's normal and I talked with him after and it's no problem"

Seemingly Hushovd apologized for getting (unreasonably) upset.

Cav, on the other hand, doesn't even acknowledge his competitors in interviews, or that he's competing for the green jersey.

 

[CerveloFan]

Actually, I think Hushovd has been pretty aggressive fighting for green - getting in a breakaway for 6 points, sticking with the bunch yesterday, complaining about an illegal sprint - as I said, the most interesting part of this year's Tour.

And I wouldn't criticize Evans, Schleck or Sastre for not attacking in the Pyrennes - I would criticize the organizers for planning a boring course with not hard mountaintop finishes and a neutered Tourmalet (but they obviously want this to close for Ventoux - instead we suffer through Astana/Columbia control)