Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Sounds like there will be a reshuffle when Cormann resigns at the end of the year. Colbeck at least will be moved out you would think but the damage has already been done. Seems like the good early signs in Australia including Victoria made them a little complacent and also probably a bit self satisfied and it's only since things have gone pear shaped that the governments fully realize what a pandemic is like if it gets even slightly out of control. It will happen again in aged care unless the whole sector gets a makeover in budgeting, training, staffing and everything in between. A big task but one that aged care retirees should benefit from not to mention their families and also the staff. How some of these aged care homes are even certified is beyond comprehension and they need to be audited regularly for their effectiveness. I had my own experience with aged care and that was a decade ago. Sounds like little progress has been made. Increasing budgets for more in - home care is a must as well and the government has been trying to do that but it's a high demand service.
Yes at least Federally action is finally being taken. But Victoria is still in denial for its direct responsibility.
Why shouldn't you place new arrivals who test positive in hospitals who at the time were quiet and are still quiet, to ensure the virus wouldn't escape from a highly regulated environment which is full of trained health care staff, as opposed to a hotch potch quarantine system set up in hotels at the last minute with few trained health staff. It's a fact that two security guards caught the virus from quarantine hotels in NSW and luckily hasn't spread into the community - As long as States refuse to place positive arrivals into hotels then you are increasing the chances of the virus escaping into the community - As Moving Target posted there have been a major mistakes by Government's and their Ministers but no-one has been held accountable
Actually Minister Colbeck was moved aside. The few trained staff at quarantine hotels were the responsibility of the state government. Nobody is blaming that on the Federal government. I am not saying your approach to quarantine would not work. I am saying it does not explain why other states don't have Victoria's problem. Other states housed people outside of hospitals when they returned from overseas and they are almost virus free.
 
Then we should all be dead by now considering the number of pathogens we're exposed to. A healthy immune system is quite an effective mechanism in fighting off and recovering from pathogens. Nutritionally sound food & exercise improve immune defense activity & metabolic health:


The overwhelming majority of people infected who develope complications are the elderly and particularly those with underlying medical conditions.The healthy & fit are not succumbing to this virus.
Marathoners have been killed by this virus. Fitness is not carte blanche. The majority of people in all subgroups survive the virus. That is true of most infections. You can post misinformation in this thread, but the truth is that you really don't know what you are talking about. Claiming that your ignorance is the fault of the experts is a conceit imo.

ETA.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1300226012979101702
 
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Marathoners have been killed by this virus. Fitness is not carte blanche. The majority of people in all subgroups survive the virus. That is true of most infections. You can post misinformation in this thread, but the truth is that you really don't know what you are talking about. Claiming that your ignorance is the fault of the experts is a conceit imo.
Marathoners or marathoner? I found one who died from Covid - a 51 yr old male from NYC. In contrast, there was a 40 yr marathoner who died of the seasonal flu in 2018. And there's been other athletes, particularly very young ones, who have died of complications from the seasonal flu.


And what "misinformation" are you referring to? On this particular post, I linked the study from the Journal of Sport & Health Science that showed acute excercise improves immune function - that's misinformation?

Now if you're talking about the links from other medical experts, such as renowned pathologist Dr. Klaus Püschel, Prof Jean-Francois Toussaaint, Dr. Tengell, etc, - that's not misinformation. Those are professional opinions that you & others just don't agree with. IOW, it's bigotry when people are intolerant of other medical experts who have different opinions on this virus that what the MSM is reporting.
 
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I find Nomad's post(s) to be interesting and accurate. I feel like watching Mexico,Brazil and the United States amass stacks of dead bodies health correlation is almost not being discussed \ disclosed anywhere for the most part. So while ultra healthy people are effected by Covid-19 the majority in the top 3 countries all have a ..Fat Factor.
The U.S. can stay in some state of denial, that looks to be a given,but for anybody wanting to address reality, we are fat. Diet,obesity,hypertension,high blood pressure,heart disease..you can mix and match the ailments but they factor overall.
I could see were there would be a reason for controversy, if the majority Americans were fit,fit to a level of marathon running..hell 10k running,but that is not the case.
There are multiple findings that the top 10 countries all have a general health problem(s) that contribute to poor outcomes overall for this virus.
So when Americans are done exploring the variety of ways China is responsible for the virus, probably Chinese food consumed in mass at Chinese buffets is probably the more logical and likely culprit..
I seriously doubt that we are going to look at this as if we have lots of blame..
In San Diego,somebody did a snapshot survey of meal service deliveries for 2 person orders and 4 person orders and 2 people were getting on average over @2100 calories and 4 people were getting @3300 hundred..because I can't find the article I don't remember the sodium and grams of fat on average,but I do remember it made me cringe when I saw it
 
Marathoners or marathoner? I found one who died from Covid - a 51 yr old male from NYC. In contrast, there was a 40 yr marathoner who died of the seasonal flu in 2018. And there's been other athletes, particularly very young ones, who have died of complications from the seasonal flu.


And what "misinformation" are you referring to? On this particular post, I linked the study from the Journal of Sport & Health Science that showed acute excercise improves immune function - that's misinformation?

Now if you're talking about the links from other medical experts, such as renowned pathologist Dr. Klaus Püschel, Prof Jean-Francois Toussaaint, Dr. Tengell, etc, - that's not misinformation. Those are professional opinions that you & others just don't agree with. IOW, it's bigotry when people are intolerant of other medical experts who have different opinions on this virus that what the MSM is reporting.
Try googling Donny Fostner from Brookfield WI. A 34 year old marathoner with zero pre-existing conditions. Inconvenient for your continual downplaying of COVID-19. Again, suggesting that fitness is akin to viral resistance is wishful thinking.

Your posts are some variation of a bunch of debunked COVID themes.
  1. That the case number is overstated. Not accurate. It is understated.
  2. That the death number is overstated. Not accurate. It is understated.
  3. Herd immunity has been reached. Zero evidence for this.
And worst of all by far.

4. Claiming that people are dying with the virus, not from the virus. That right there is some of the worst misinformation around about COVID-19. Something that no
renowned scientist is claiming with a straight face. You can post what you want, but people should know that what you post is mostly BS IMO.

I doubt there will be robust efficacy data about these two vaccines by the end of October. That is why I think the Oxford/ AZ option will get the green light for an EUA if they can get some halfway decent data ready by the middle of October even if it is not a large enough sample.

View: https://twitter.com/megtirrell/status/1300523307746369536
 
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Chris Gadsden

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A 34 year old marathoner with zero pre-existing conditions. Inconvenient for your continual downplaying of COVID-19.
One distance runner In his 30’s dies from C19.... So, therefore, what?

Claiming that people are dying with the virus, not from the virus
The CDC report is probably not something you are very excited about. Your distance runner is in the 6% minority where the death was only COVID related. The other 94% dead had between 2 - 3 other comorbities where COVID was a contributor.

The point is this thing is not what you are describing and I‘m confident you know it.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR3-wrg3tTKK5-9tOHPGAHWFVO3DfslkJ0KsDEPQpWmPbKtp6EsoVV2Qs1Q
 
One distance runner In his 30’s dies from C19.... So, therefore, what?



The CDC report is probably not something you are very excited about. Your distance runner is in the 6% minority where the death was only COVID related. The other 94% dead had between 2 - 3 other comorbities where COVID was a contributor.

The point is this thing is not what you are describing and I‘m confident you know it.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR3-wrg3tTKK5-9tOHPGAHWFVO3DfslkJ0KsDEPQpWmPbKtp6EsoVV2Qs1Q

This is how math was taught at Trump University..or maybe Donald was actually the bookkeeper over at all those groovy Atlantic City casinos that went out of business..
The CDC needs to learn to use ALL the function keys on their scientific calculator from Texas Instruments!!! Donald learned all that stuff over at Wharton!!
Trump calculated the Covid death rates using a Telefunken U47!!!
 
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The point is this thing is not what you are describing and I‘m confident you know it.

The CDC report is probably not something you are very excited about. Your distance runner is in the 6% minority where the death was only COVID related. The other 94% dead had between 2 - 3 other comorbities where COVID was a contributor.
The point is that one of us knows about infectious disease and the other doesn't have a clue. Remember how you were so sure chloroquine was going to be the game changer?Which one of us was right then? It is estimated that about 10% of the population has been infected with COVID-19 in the USA, resulting in about 225K excess deaths. The plan you and nomad prefer aims to kill about 6-7 times this amount. Do the math. The key point that you two miss is this is not an individual health problem. Most people who get the disease will not die*. But if your plan is to let the country go herd, a virus that kills only about 1 in 250 will cause death on a scale that we have not seen in the modern age of medicine. Your minimizing of this looming collective public health disaster is mind boggling. Especially after we have seen what this virus can do firsthand. People like you should be mandated to go to a hospital and see for yourself what is going on. Talk to the witnesses of this and then come back to the forum and talk about how this is so overrated.

COVID is not a 'contributor', it is the primary cause. If it was not, there would be no excess deaths in the country. People do not drop dead from diabetes and hypertension en masse like we saw this spring. A lot of the flu deaths you like to harp on are also not caused directly by the influenza viruses either, rather secondary opportunistic infections, causing death by bacterial pneumonia in weakened individuals. I don't see you spouting off of how influenza is not the cause of those deaths.

* Lord only knows how many years of life this infection is shaving off on the back end due to chronic conditions this virus is causing even in those who survive.
 

Chris Gadsden

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you were so sure chloroquine
Based on a peer reviewed French study it was worth looking at. I don’t think anybody thought it was a cure and you opposed any look for political reasons which is the opposite of smart.

The plan you and nomad prefer aims to kill about 6-7 times this amount
Which plan is that?

Your minimizing of this looming collective public health disaster is mind boggling.
Which collective disaster? COVID or the reaction to it? People losing their lives from/with COVID or from losing their livelihood? Despair? Financial destruction? Dead is dead, right?

People like you should be mandated to go to a hospital and see for yourself what is going on.
People like you shouldn’t assume anything about people you don’t know.

Lord only knows how many years of life this infection is shaving off on the back end due to chronic conditions this virus is causing even in those who survive.
A natural death panel if you will.

You go about your life worried about marathon runners dying from COVID and I’ll go about mine worried about the long term effects of your antiseptic society.
 
Based on a peer reviewed French study it was worth looking at.

Which plan is that?
A peer reviewed French study that lacked a control group. Which was brought to your attention at the time by me. The scientific flaws were obvious. It was worth examining, but you held out beyond the point where good evidence proved it didn't work.

Your words, not mine.
Yep. Herd immunity w/o smoking the healthcare system. Probably the only way forward.
I wonder if you can go through the people listed on places like the link below and say that now.

View: https://twitter.com/FacesOfCOVID/status/1300787995683946503
 
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I think rather than DJ debating facts,which to many are just too close up.far too scientific to digest,examples like social distancing and masks,almost everywhere these are science based givens, only debatable by tiny flat earth style fringe fools.
But what we see in the US is very very complicated and different,dangerous. The science that gives us Viagra, heart and blood pressure meds that allow a quality of life unimaginable @20 years ago..diabetes control..medical technologies that allow organ transplants almost routine and medical innovation that saves children that would die without it..those same doctors,nurses, scientists,researchers,technology,techniques and drugs just to start..
All that dismissed and in the toilet because a TV reality show host says so..
The U.S.has no plan for forward progress,instead the plan is to attempt a balance between commerce and death only slowing commerce when the death becomes unmanageable or politically uncomfortable.The actions of leadership in the US from the President to the CDC is truly criminal and has no parallel anywhere.
Covid took over third leading cause of death in the US,keeping ugly company w cancer and heart disease..and if anybody thought that the US was making headway..you would have to be drunk or high or both..





 
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Chris Gadsden

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Summary
Multiple lines of evidence indicate that the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has profound psychological and social effects. The psychological sequelae of the pandemic will probably persist for months and years to come. Studies indicate that the COVID-19 pandemic is associated with distress, anxiety, fear of contagion, depression and insomnia in the general population and among healthcare professionals. Social isolation, anxiety, fear of contagion, uncertainty, chronic stress and economic difficulties may lead to the development or exacerbation of depressive, anxiety, substance use and other psychiatric disorders in vulnerable populations including individuals with pre-existing psychiatric disorders and people who reside in high COVID-19 prevalence areas. Stress-related psychiatric conditions including mood and substance use disorders are associated with suicidal behavior. COVID-19 survivors may also be at elevated suicide risk. The COVID-19 crisis may increase suicide rates during and after the pandemic. Mental health consequences of the COVID-19 crisis including suicidal behavior are likely to be present for a long time and peak later than the actual pandemic. To reduce suicides during the COVID-19 crisis, it is imperative to decrease stress, anxiety, fears and loneliness in the general population. There should be traditional and social media campaigns to promote mental health and reduce distress. Active outreach is necessary, especially for people with a history of psychiatric disorders, COVID-19 survivors and older adults. Research studies are needed of how mental health consequences can be mitigated during and after the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/advance-article/doi/10.1093/qjmed/hcaa202/5857612



I wonder if you can go through the people listed on places like the link below and say that now.
I am wondering the same.

I applaud you for your singular focus on COVID. I only wish you‘d exit you bubble long enough To see and recognize the other very serious problems.
 
Take a gas pump..or a bank teller..McDonald's window worker..pump says I got 10 gallons,I pay for it..next day car konks out..turns out pump reading was 10 gallons but only a gallon and a half came out..bank teller transferred money from checking to savings,you go out to eat or to the market to discover you have negative balances in all your accounts..teller transferred into someone else's account..
Order 2 Big Macs w fries and a chocolate shake, get home to open bag and discover a water ,used napkins and a half eaten fish sandwich..
Now imagine that this level of contempt,incompetence and stupidity was working in the US government officially giving out information and "assistance"
And the clowns were in charge of strategy and implementation..
that is our reality in the United States..
Check the facts back from February..see the action our government officials took when they were notified about Covid 19..

 
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I am wondering the same.

I applaud you for your singular focus on COVID. I only wish you‘d exit you bubble long enough To see and recognize the other very serious problems.
Since March, it was pretty obvious that COVID was going to be the defining crisis of our generation. How we handle the crucible will influence the next 10-20 years of our society IMO. It is not going to go away in November. My view is that the best path forward is to minimize the number of infections before a vaccine arrives early next year by limiting super-spreader events, enforcing masks in the workplaces, and maximizing work from home where feasible.
 
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Try googling Donny Fostner from Brookfield WI. A 34 year old marathoner with zero pre-existing conditions. Inconvenient for your continual downplaying of COVID-19. Again, suggesting that fitness is akin to viral resistance is wishful thinking.
I did and the report said he was not tested for Covid - so they're saying it's presumptive. But it could also be influenza as the symptoms are virtually identical including anosmia. I think it's important to have a confirmation in these deaths/serious cases...don't you? Remember the Calgary police officer case I posted where the physical fit 40 yr old suffered severe complications from the flu (H1N9) losing both legs. If he had not been tested and a presumptive Covid case was diagnosed the MSM would have been all over that.


And why wouldn't a healthy immune system be akin to viral resistance in many cases? (there are so many asymptomatic people both young & older). Certainly a high-functioning immune system would help with viral recovery and prevent complications in many cases.

Your posts are some variation of a bunch of debunked COVID themes.
That the case number is overstated. Not accurate. It is understated.
It could very well be with all the false positives. There were 77 false positives with the just NFL last week. The lab in question has tested hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. There were 3,700 false positives recently discovered in Sweden from a Chinese lab that sent out 35 million test kits to 180 different countries. If the NFL hadn't caught these false positives the MSM would be all over that screaming for the season to be cancelled!

That the death number is overstated. Not accurate. It is understated.
Again, with all the false positives the death number could be overstated. In addition, I've read some reports where an elderly person has died from advanced disease (e.g, cancer, heart, stroke, etc) also testing positive for Covid eith death certificate stating that Covid was the cause of death against the family's wishes.

Herd immunity has been reached. Zero evidence for this.
"We are actually getting closer to herd immunity" -- Dr. Soo Aleman (Karolinski Institute):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L-LpLq64-w&app=desktop


And worst of all by far.
Claiming that people are dying with the virus, not from the virus. That right there is some of the worst misinformation around about COVID-19. Something that no renowned scientist is claiming with a straight face. You can post what you want, but people should know that what you post is mostly BS IMO.
A renowned forensic pathologist; Dr. Klaus Püschel, Head of Forensic Medicine Department at the University Hospital Hamburg-Eppendorf (UKE) is claiming that the fear of the virus is "exaggerated." He says of all the Covid deaths he's autopsied, none died without other serious pre-existing conditions:

View: https://youtu.be/LfeN68Zp-TY


And thanks for letting me post what I want but I'm not trying to get you or others ticked-off. I'm merely posting info from qualified medical experts who have a different opinion about the virus other than what the MSM reports. If you & others here think what they opine is BS then fine.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Take a gas pump..or a bank teller..McDonald's window worker..pump says I got 10 gallons,I pay for it..next day car konks out..turns out pump reading was 10 gallons but only a gallon and a half came out..bank teller transferred money from checking to savings,you go out to eat or to the market to discover you have negative balances in all your accounts..teller transferred into someone else's account..
Order 2 Big Macs w fries and a chocolate shake, get home to open bag and discover a water ,used napkins and a half eaten fish sandwich..
Now imagine that this level of contempt,incompetence and stupidity was working in the US government officially giving out information and "assistance"
And the clowns were in charge of strategy and implementation..
that is our reality in the United States..
Check the facts back from February..see the action our government officials took when they were notified about Covid 19..

Garbage post. Literally and figuatively.

When political leaders were calling travel restrictions from China racist and xenophobic, When other leaders were in NYC downplaying the virus, when on the left coast the speaker of the house was encouraging San Franciscans to party like it’s 1999 in Chinatown....

“We have the best health care system on the planet right here in New York. So, when you’re saying, what happened in other countries versus what happened here, we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.”

– Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on March 2

“If you’re under 50 and you’re healthy, which is most New Yorkers, there’s very little threat here. This disease, even if you were to get it, basically acts like a common cold or flu.”

– New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, on March 10

“We have to accept that unless a vaccine is rapidly developed, large numbers of people will get infected. The good thing is greater than 99 percent will recover without harm. Once people recover they will have immunity. The immunity will protect the herd.”

– Mitchell Katz, president and CEO of NYC Health + Hospitals, on March 10

“In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC's Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of "be strong Wuhan!"

If you are staying away, you are missing out!"

– New York City Councilman Mark Levine, on Feb. 9


“We’re telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the subway, go out, enjoy life."

– New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot, on Feb. 7

“but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown.’ Here we are, careful, safe and come join us.”

- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, on February 24

“On Jan. 24, at the urging of Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), administration officials held a briefing for the full Senate. But the classified session was sparsely attended, two Senate aides said, because it was put together at the last minute and was held on the same day as a deadline for senators to submit their impeachment questions. Only about 14 of them showed up.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/how-coronavirus-shook-congress-complacency-155058



So anyway...
 

Chris Gadsden

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Since March, it was pretty obvious that COVID was going to be the defining crisis of our generation. How we handle the crucible will influence the next 10-20 years of our society IMO. It is not going to go away in November. My view is that the best path forward is to minimize the number of infections before a vaccine arrives early next year by limiting super-spreader events, enforcing masks in the workplaces, and maximizing work from home where feasible.
Assuming a vaccine arrives, sure. Generally I agree with this.

Now play the “what if” game.
 
Take a gas pump..or a bank teller..McDonald's window worker..pump says I got 10 gallons,I pay for it..next day car konks out..turns out pump reading was 10 gallons but only a gallon and a half came out..bank teller transferred money from checking to savings,you go out to eat or to the market to discover you have negative balances in all your accounts..teller transferred into someone else's account..
Order 2 Big Macs w fries and a chocolate shake, get home to open bag and discover a water ,used napkins and a half eaten fish sandwich..
Now imagine that this level of contempt,incompetence and stupidity was working in the US government officially giving out information and "assistance"
And the clowns were in charge of strategy and implementation..
that is our reality in the United States..
Check the facts back from February..see the action our government officials took when they were notified about Covid 19..

:rolleyes:
 
Chris appears to do most of the heavy lifting here for the US government response. He can only become a few things from the work, strong and or tired.
History is history though and when the top U.S.official said that the Covid 19 virus was a hoax, that view was wrong.
When Trump claimed that the Corona virus was a fake ploy made up by his political rivals, that seemed silly,but he went on in spite of mounds of information,he doubled down saying the virus was imaginary,over blown and being furthered by media that didn't like him. That was wrong too..but he kept stating it and was unable to explain how Italy and Spain,France all were killing their countrymen to foil Donald Trump. History will review the situation and time will tell.
But history will also chronicle the effects of actions like telling the world that the US only had @15 cases when the numbers were nearing @1000..or assuring Americans that the virus was under control,that proclamation repeated again in these last 2 weeks.
History will wonder of the country Trump was referring to when he confidently announced that there was available testing for anybody who wants one..as witnessed,those tests,wide spread available testing is still unavailable in the US.
There are those glassed eyed loyalists that say things like, but what about all the good things Hitler did,
but reality,a simple historical overview,makes those defenses silly and dumb. History will judge the US leadership and those staunch supporters that keep saying up is down and black is white and that the virus is under control, everything is fine,if you just believe enough.
There is a cliff there, a historic free fall from high up..saying that things that are obviously lies,completely false over and over may not push just a few thousand over,it may be all of us,even us non believers..but let's go long view and see what history says about malaria meds and drinking or injecting disinfectant..too early to say right?
What's the fuss, only 9000 dead..right? I let historians tabulate an accurate number.
.I do really roll over reading the " contributing factor " stuff..soon drowning deaths will list the lack of oxygen in the water as a contributing factor..or low tire pressure factoring in when a guy falls asleep at the wheel on oxy and 2 bottles of Jack in his belly, if only he had stopped at Costco or Discount Tire, they would have checked the pressure for free..
Our country is out of control.
 
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