Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[jmdirt]

Being overly pessimistic invites these kind of reactions. This reminds me of an exchange between myself and djpbaltimore on Dec 31st - linked below is one reply I received. I was told we should be wary of a flood of hospitalizations with the massive case spikes in omicron - but it didn't eventuate.

Page 347 - Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

Page 347 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

Well lets go to the scoreboard today:
Daily Cases Admitted to Hospital - COVID Live

Hospitalizations are down 12% on the peak on Jan 25.
ICUs are down 34% since the peak on Sep 21 (delta surge)

Very good news and maybe a good case study for elsewhere. So we see massive case spikes with omicron did not overwhelm our hospital system. There is ample evidence to support being more optimistic.

Being realistic does not mean that I want the pandemic 'to go on forever'. I wanted it to end in April of 2020! I honestly don't see the correlation between the two. What I do see is someone who doesn't have a solid discussion so they make fun of others who do (OP, not you).

Did you read my post above? Should the number of deaths in January make me feel happy? Even if February pans out to be 40,000 should I be happy? I'll be glad that the number went down, but not happy about the number. About 2,600 people are dying per day in the USA. I can center it down to Idaho (like you are doing with NSW) and the numbers are lower, but is that how we are viewing this? "No one on my block died this month, so its all good".

To be clear, I am living my life close to 'normal'. I'm not hiding in my house waiting for the sushi driver to get out of sight. I go to work five days a week, shop, get takeout, ride my bike, walk my dog, get skin cancer carved out of my bald head...I've had all 3 Moderna shots and wear a mask indoors.

EDIT: Boise area hospitals are struggling as I posted a few days ago.

 

[Cookster15]

Being realistic does not mean that I want the pandemic 'to go on forever'. I wanted it to end in April of 2020! I honestly don't see the correlation between the two. What I do see is someone who doesn't have a solid discussion so they make fun of others who do (OP, not you).

Did you read my post above? Should the number of deaths in January make me feel happy? Even if February pans out to be 40,000 should I be happy? I'll be glad that the number went down, but not happy about the number. About 2,600 people are dying per day in the USA. I can center it down to Idaho (like you are doing with NSW) and the numbers are lower, but is that how we are viewing this? "No one on my block died this month, so its all good".

To be clear, I am living my life close to 'normal'. I'm not hiding in my house waiting for the sushi driver to get out of sight. I go to work five days a week, shop, get takeout, ride my bike, walk my dog, get skin cancer carved out of my bald head...I've had all 3 Moderna shots and wear a mask indoors.

EDIT: Boise area hospitals are struggling as I posted a few days ago.

All good. Of course the situation may vary depending on which state or part of the world. But NSW is the largest state by population in Australia (8.2mil) so a decent sample. I had a bee in my bonnet ever since I was warned the massive spikes in omicron cases could overwhelm our hospitals. I wanted to remind that there is cause for optimism. Do you have stats on what is the proportion of delta vs omicron driving your hospitalizations and deaths?

 

[jmdirt]

Of course the situation may vary depending on which state or part of the word. But NSW is the largest state by population in Australia (8.2mil) so a decent sample. I had a bee in my bonnet ever since I was warned the massive spikes in omicron cases could overwhelm our hospitals. I wanted to remind that there is cause for optimism. Do you have stats on what is the proportion of delta vs omicron driving your hospitalizations and deaths?

I don't see the breakdown on the state DPH site (they have a huge backlog so...), but does it matter? Dead is dead.

Omicrom was 96% of new cases last week, but that doesn't answer your question.

 

[Cookster15]

America's death rate has fallen substantially I assume with omicron vs delta (edit: and maybe natural immunity):

7 day moving averages @ 2-Feb-22:
New cases 383,375 / day
Deaths 2,334 / day
Percentage: 0.6%

The same percentage on Jan 14 was 1.45%

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

 

[jmdirt]

America's death rate has fallen substantially I assume with omicron vs delta:

7 day moving averages @ 2-Feb-22:
New cases 383,375 / day
Deaths 2,334 / day
Percentage: 0.6%

The same percentage on Jan 14 was 1.45%

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

That's part of what I'm saying though, the numbers are better, but 2,300 deaths per day is nothing to be thrilled about. How many deaths per day were there in June/July 2021 (350ish)?

EDIT: I realize that ~1,500 people a day die of cancer, and ~2,000 a day die of heart disease, but neither of those is communicable.

 

[Cookster15]

That's part of what I'm saying though, the numbers are better, but 2,300 deaths per day is nothing to be thrilled about. How many deaths per day were there in June/July 2021 (350ish)?

EDIT: I realize that ~1,500 people a day die of cancer, and ~2,000 a day die of heart disease, but neither of those is communicable.

To be clear I am not saying your numbers are acceptable - of course they are still appalling. What I am saying is there is cause for optimism. Covid will decline. Cancer and heart disease will still be killing similar numbers unless there are significant medical breakthroughs.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I have an honest question I would like people's thoughts on. This may seem out there, and I absolutely am not looking for any political opinions, but please bear with me. This pertains mostly to the US, but also to the most developed western countries where vaccines are accessible for everyone.

Are we reaching a point where leaders, be that the President, governors, medical leaders, could look towards calling for the transition from a pandemic to an endemic, and rescind nearly all rules made to protect citizens? If not now, soon, perhaps when omricon has really receded?

Sound irrational? Let me explain my thinking. First, I think we've reached the point where perhaps over 99% of the people who considered getting vaccinated have done so. The people who have not, for whatever the reason, at this point are unlikely to ever vaccinate.

I wonder if we're reaching a few other points. First, considering the above as factual, or very close to factual, would it not merely make social sense to allow those who refuse vaccines, and refuse to wear masks, to just risk getting sick, see if they recover. They will build up at least some antibodies this way. This is perhaps the fastest way to some form of herd immunity, considering the refusal to vaccinate. Yes, some people will die. But are the numbers of such short-term risk, greater than the long-term risk of potentially prolonging the pandemic?

Next, are not the vaccinated thus protecting or placating the anti-vaxers by wearing masks, practicing social distancing, creating rules to protect them? This in light that masks protect others, more than they protect those wearing them.

I also question whether the fatigue of "safety" is causing more social, even individual, damage than the virus, especially for the vaccinated. Unless an extremely dangerous variant appears, most vaccinated people come down with what seems like a cold, and are out on an average of 3 days. I question if even up to half the vaccinated citizens having to deal with this, is actually worse overall, than the continued stress, anxiety, restlessness, hyper-concern, etc. that seems to be going on in large swaths of society. Also, vaccinated individuals who contract Covid seem to build super-immunity against getting sick from it in the future.

Finally, aren't we getting close to this type of fatigue and mindset in many places of society already? One where people just "give up"? I just drove across the country, often through back roads, red and blue states, and you could just sense that people were worn out, no matter where they were. Are we close to a point where "giving up" and risking getting sick doesn't have the consequences of the long-term stress of living in such a restrictive way? At least for the vaccinated? And those who aren't, don't seem to care, or are willing to take that risk anyway.

 

[Ultrairon]

did I mention conspiracy?

tldr - no, I did not

That was the topic for ivermectin and Hydroxy. That was the point which was being discussed. Not drugs that are in short demand because of actual Rx Dr recommendations. Which is why I was shocked if Pred was one of those drugs, you waded into a converstation that was ongoing and fluid. I apologize if my reply was offensive.

 

[Ultrairon]

Being realistic does not mean that I want the pandemic 'to go on forever'. I wanted it to end in April of 2020! I honestly don't see the correlation between the two. What I do see is someone who doesn't have a solid discussion so they make fun of others who do (OP, not you).

Did you read my post above? Should the number of deaths in January make me feel happy? Even if February pans out to be 40,000 should I be happy? I'll be glad that the number went down, but not happy about the number. About 2,600 people are dying per day in the USA. I can center it down to Idaho (like you are doing with NSW) and the numbers are lower, but is that how we are viewing this? "No one on my block died this month, so its all good".

To be clear, I am living my life close to 'normal'. I'm not hiding in my house waiting for the sushi driver to get out of sight. I go to work five days a week, shop, get takeout, ride my bike, walk my dog, get skin cancer carved out of my bald head...I've had all 3 Moderna shots and wear a mask indoors.

EDIT: Boise area hospitals are struggling as I posted a few days ago.

I get the feeling you want it to go on forever just based on the thumbs up on anything that shows the pandemic gaining steam. I can go back and find many examples. You want to keep wearing your mask forever go for it. I am not going to do that ever. I have had 3 Pfizer shots and am comfortable living my life. I laugh at people who wear a mask indoors and outdoors. Its my opinion its doing nothing when its a cloth or disposable, with the exception of litter.

 

[Ultrairon]

I have an honest question I would like people's thoughts on. This may seem out there, and I absolutely am not looking for any political opinions, but please bear with me. This pertains mostly to the US, but also to the most developed western countries where vaccines are accessible for everyone.

Are we reaching a point where leaders, be that the President, governors, medical leaders, could look towards calling for the transition from a pandemic to an endemic, and rescind nearly all rules made to protect citizens? If not now, soon, perhaps when omricon has really receded?

Sound irrational? Let me explain my thinking. First, I think we've reached the point where perhaps over 99% of the people who considered getting vaccinated have done so. The people who have not, for whatever the reason, at this point are unlikely to ever vaccinate.

I wonder if we're reaching a few other points. First, considering the above as factual, or very close to factual, would it not merely make social sense to allow those who refuse vaccines, and refuse to wear masks, to just risk getting sick, see if they recover. They will build up at least some antibodies this way. This is perhaps the fastest way to some form of herd immunity, considering the refusal to vaccinate. Yes, some people will die. But are the numbers of such short-term risk, greater than the long-term risk of potentially prolonging the pandemic?

Next, are not the vaccinated thus protecting or placating the anti-vaxers by wearing masks, practicing social distancing, creating rules to protect them? This in light that masks protect others, more than they protect those wearing them.

I also question whether the fatigue of "safety" is causing more social, even individual, damage than the virus, especially for the vaccinated. Unless an extremely dangerous variant appears, most vaccinated people come down with what seems like a cold, and are out on an average of 3 days. I question if even up to half the vaccinated citizens having to deal with this, is actually worse overall, than the continued stress, anxiety, restlessness, hyper-concern, etc. that seems to be going on in large swaths of society. Also, vaccinated individuals who contract Covid seem to build super-immunity against getting sick from it in the future.

Finally, aren't we getting close to this type of fatigue and mindset in many places of society already? One where people just "give up"? I just drove across the country, often through back roads, red and blue states, and you could just sense that people were worn out, no matter where they were. Are we close to a point where "giving up" and risking getting sick doesn't have the consequences of the long-term stress of living in such a restrictive way? At least for the vaccinated? And those who aren't, don't seem to care, or are willing to take that risk anyway.

Well thought out post. I hope some do not put you down for even considering that the disease could be endemic. Even with the fact I disagree on the mask protection if its not a N95 certified mask.

 

[jmdirt]

I have an honest question I would like people's thoughts on. This may seem out there, and I absolutely am not looking for any political opinions, but please bear with me. This pertains mostly to the US, but also to the most developed western countries where vaccines are accessible for everyone.

Are we reaching a point where leaders, be that the President, governors, medical leaders, could look towards calling for the transition from a pandemic to an endemic, and rescind nearly all rules made to protect citizens? If not now, soon, perhaps when omricon has really receded?

Sound irrational? Let me explain my thinking. First, I think we've reached the point where perhaps over 99% of the people who considered getting vaccinated have done so. The people who have not, for whatever the reason, at this point are unlikely to ever vaccinate.

I wonder if we're reaching a few other points. First, considering the above as factual, or very close to factual, would it not merely make social sense to allow those who refuse vaccines, and refuse to wear masks, to just risk getting sick, see if they recover. They will build up at least some antibodies this way. This is perhaps the fastest way to some form of herd immunity, considering the refusal to vaccinate. Yes, some people will die. But are the numbers of such short-term risk, greater than the long-term risk of potentially prolonging the pandemic?

Next, are not the vaccinated thus protecting or placating the anti-vaxers by wearing masks, practicing social distancing, creating rules to protect them? This in light that masks protect others, more than they protect those wearing them.

I also question whether the fatigue of "safety" is causing more social, even individual, damage than the virus, especially for the vaccinated. Unless an extremely dangerous variant appears, most vaccinated people come down with what seems like a cold, and are out on an average of 3 days. I question if even up to half the vaccinated citizens having to deal with this, is actually worse overall, than the continued stress, anxiety, restlessness, hyper-concern, etc. that seems to be going on in large swaths of society. Also, vaccinated individuals who contract Covid seem to build super-immunity against getting sick from it in the future.

Finally, aren't we getting close to this type of fatigue and mindset in many places of society already? One where people just "give up"? I just drove across the country, often through back roads, red and blue states, and you could just sense that people were worn out, no matter where they were. Are we close to a point where "giving up" and risking getting sick doesn't have the consequences of the long-term stress of living in such a restrictive way? At least for the vaccinated? And those who aren't, don't seem to care, or are willing to take that risk anyway.

Hopefully.

Not to be nick-picky, but pandemic and endemic are scientific terms that have parameters so no one really "calls for the transition" unless they are calling for changing the science. I know what you mean though.

 

[jmdirt]

I get the feeling you want it to go on forever just based on the thumbs up on anything that shows the pandemic gaining steam. I can go back and find many examples. You want to keep wearing your mask forever go for it. I am not going to do that ever. I have had 3 Pfizer shots and am comfortable living my life. I laugh at people who wear a mask indoors and outdoors. Its my opinion its doing nothing when its a cloth or disposable, with the exception of litter.

If you don't want to read what I type please don't respond to me. I have wanted this to be over since the spring of 2020! Its absolutely idiotic to claim that people want this to go on forever!

Something else that I posted that you probably didn't read:
"To be clear, I am living my life close to 'normal'. I'm not hiding in my house waiting for the sushi driver to get out of sight. I go to work five days a week, shop, get takeout, ride my bike, walk my dog, get skin cancer carved out of my bald head...I've had all 3 Moderna shots and wear a mask indoors."

I frequently give a thumbs up for interesting information (this thread and others), it doesn't mean I love what the information is saying necessarily. While you are looking for the examples please count how many thumbs up I gave for the pandemic losing steam too. I won't take the time to look for examples of you using the laughing face on posts about people dying.

EDIT: Many people gave thumbs up to posts and links about Bernal's crash, are you saying that those people wanted him to crash and get hurt?

 

[Nomad]

The CDC is finally recognizing ‘natural immunity’ — legislators should follow suit

Now that CDC recognizes the protective effect of prior infection, it is time to update vaccination policies and school or work-entry requirements across federal and state or county governments.

www.google.com

 

[Unchained]

Dirt..I really really think you are missing " it". People saying that there is a hedged bet for a prolonged pandemic just don't grasp reality.
Take recent pandemic measures,let's say for HIV AIDS..what did that cost? What is the cost today? No real way to answer. But for sure if your bet is government or big pharma profiting from the pandemic on scale you will lose.

The CDC is finally recognizing ‘natural immunity’ — legislators should follow suit

Now that CDC recognizes the protective effect of prior infection, it is time to update vaccination policies and school or work-entry requirements across federal and state or county governments.

www.google.com

so are the " legislators " saying that there is natural immunity w upcoming variants? With antibiotic resistant bacteria? AIDS? And this is also the answer to cold and flu,right? Doesn't seem too short sighted right? I mean w 60% of the world getting one jab or more, now is the time to fly onto a aircraft carrier and claim mission accomplished!! I think lots of people watching the AFC and NFC championships..and Tom Brady see what any premature celebration can backfire..but I mean who knows more about disease and health care than legislators.
they are right, the worst is behind us, probably no more variants..good bet

 

[jmdirt]

Dirt..I really really think you are missing " it". People saying that there is a hedged bet for a prolonged pandemic just don't grasp reality.
Take recent pandemic measures,let's say for HIV AIDS..what did that cost? What is the cost today? No real way to answer. But for sure if your bet is government or big pharma profiting from the pandemic on scale you will lose.

so are the " legislators " saying that there is natural immunity w upcoming variants? With antibiotic resistant bacteria? AIDS? And this is also the answer to cold and flu,right? Doesn't seem too short sighted right? I mean w 60% of the world getting one jab or more, now is the time to fly onto a aircraft carrier and claim mission accomplished!! I think lots of people watching the AFC and NFC championships..and Tom Brady see what any premature celebration can backfire..but I mean who knows more about disease and health care than legislators.
they are right, the worst is behind us, probably no more variants..good bet

ie: Amazon profited on a massive scale...

I don't think that there are many people/corps/politicians that want this to go any longer, but there certainly are a few (I'm not claiming that Amazon wants the pandemic to continue).

 

[Cookster15]

ie: Amazon profited on a massive scale...

I don't think that there are many people/corps/politicians that want this to go any longer, but there certainly are a few (I'm not claiming that Amazon wants the pandemic to continue).

I think there are more than a few. But difficult to discuss why under the forum rules

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The CDC is finally recognizing ‘natural immunity’ — legislators should follow suit

Now that CDC recognizes the protective effect of prior infection, it is time to update vaccination policies and school or work-entry requirements across federal and state or county governments.

www.google.com

This kind of goes in line with what I am saying. Whether one wants to call one immunized or not. Pandemic, endemic, or something else.

I mean, at some point...

 

[djpbaltimore]

What an idiotic thing to say! Other than a few people/corps who are making money due to the pandemic, who wants it to go on for even another day let alone forever?

Antivaxxers like Del Bigtree have been making bank. Very good for their business model.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1489248940734095366

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/BrandyZadrozny/status/1489248940734095366

I have an honest question I would like people's thoughts on. This may seem out there, and I absolutely am not looking for any political opinions, but please bear with me. This pertains mostly to the US, but also to the most developed western countries where vaccines are accessible for everyone.

Are we reaching a point where leaders, be that the President, governors, medical leaders, could look towards calling for the transition from a pandemic to an endemic, and rescind nearly all rules made to protect citizens? If not now, soon, perhaps when omricon has really receded?

Sound irrational? Let me explain my thinking. First, I think we've reached the point where perhaps over 99% of the people who considered getting vaccinated have done so. The people who have not, for whatever the reason, at this point are unlikely to ever vaccinate.

I wonder if we're reaching a few other points. First, considering the above as factual, or very close to factual, would it not merely make social sense to allow those who refuse vaccines, and refuse to wear masks, to just risk getting sick, see if they recover. They will build up at least some antibodies this way. This is perhaps the fastest way to some form of herd immunity, considering the refusal to vaccinate. Yes, some people will die. But are the numbers of such short-term risk, greater than the long-term risk of potentially prolonging the pandemic?

Next, are not the vaccinated thus protecting or placating the anti-vaxers by wearing masks, practicing social distancing, creating rules to protect them? This in light that masks protect others, more than they protect those wearing them.

I also question whether the fatigue of "safety" is causing more social, even individual, damage than the virus, especially for the vaccinated. Unless an extremely dangerous variant appears, most vaccinated people come down with what seems like a cold, and are out on an average of 3 days. I question if even up to half the vaccinated citizens having to deal with this, is actually worse overall, than the continued stress, anxiety, restlessness, hyper-concern, etc. that seems to be going on in large swaths of society. Also, vaccinated individuals who contract Covid seem to build super-immunity against getting sick from it in the future.

Finally, aren't we getting close to this type of fatigue and mindset in many places of society already? One where people just "give up"? I just drove across the country, often through back roads, red and blue states, and you could just sense that people were worn out, no matter where they were. Are we close to a point where "giving up" and risking getting sick doesn't have the consequences of the long-term stress of living in such a restrictive way? At least for the vaccinated? And those who aren't, don't seem to care, or are willing to take that risk anyway.

This is a good post. But it really is unanswerable. From a sociological standpoint, SC2 is already endemic. But, as jmdirt alluded to, not by the scientific definition. What is missing is predictability. Flu is endemic and it's cyclic nature is well established. You can set your watch to it pre covid. We really have little idea what the next 6 months hold for SC2.

For those who were wondering how Omicron compared to delta.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1489168685830868995

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielGriffinMD/status/1489168685830868995

 

[Ultrairon]

US Nation Hospitalizations.

Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

This chart displays the 7-day trend in overall and Covid-19-specific hospitalization occupancy data to help understand changes in capacity and level of stress on hospitals.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Maryland Hospitalizations

Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

This chart displays the 7-day trend in overall and Covid-19-specific hospitalization occupancy data to help understand changes in capacity and level of stress on hospitals.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Florida

Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

This chart displays the 7-day trend in overall and Covid-19-specific hospitalization occupancy data to help understand changes in capacity and level of stress on hospitals.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

New York

Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

This chart displays the 7-day trend in overall and Covid-19-specific hospitalization occupancy data to help understand changes in capacity and level of stress on hospitals.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

US National Cases

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

Remembering the hysteria and panic (in my opinion) being created here with respect to hospitalizations. Now its trending down. Not good news? Why not? It followed almost exactly what South Africa said and showed through the data.

 

[Unchained]

Ultriron's point is valid. Numbers trending down is good news, vaccine response has those getting sick w milder symptoms..again good news. Realism mandates reaction to death..still 2000+..way,way too high.r

And as a tax payer..if my public servants,like cops were huffing paint ,smoking crack, or doing smack or overdosing on fentynal ..we should react..
what a complete waste of time,money and public trust to hire public servants who don't serve the public..if police officers want to engage in ultra high risk behavior,let them do it without the 100's of thousands of dollars needed to train,equip and pay them..
in the US we have lost reality...no you don't have the right not to stop at the stop sign..no you can't let your newborn ride in the front seat wo a seat or seatbelt...and no first responders can't pick and choose who to transport to hospital, can't decide not to rescue you from the lake, river or car accident..can't let houses burn based on community standing or popularity.
We have had a few too many years of police saying that they will not be enforcing a law of regulation based on their mood or public popularity..
If Covid is killing cops after tax payers are on the hook for training,pensions,equipment,salary and support structure,something has to be done..

 

[Nomad]

Antivaxxers like Del Bigtree have been making bank. Very good for their business model.

Thanks to Del & other antivaxxers for organizing the DC rally last weekend in protest of the mandates. Good turnout with guest speakers RFK, Jr & Dr. Robert Malone.

https://thehighwire.com/videos/journalist-calls-for-trial-of-the-press-that-lied-to-the-world/

Video: Vaccine scientist Robert Malone speaks at anti-vaxx rally in DC | Daily Mail Online

Vaccine scientist Dr. Robert Malone spoke at theat anti-vaccinations rally in Washington DC.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In fact, my son & I are going to join his organization & contribute to the fight against these totalitarianism mandates! Though Colo just lifted the one major vaccine mandate here in the state (vaccine required for indoor events with 500 or more in attendance), my son still has to go though the stress of weekly testing for the unvaccinated through the college mandates. There are some occasions where he's had to wait in line for over an hour at some of these poorly operated testing sites!

This is plain BS, because like me, he's has naturally immunity from his bout with the Delta variant last Sept. And unlike me, he was hardly sick at all, with extremely mild symptoms where he didn't miss a beat with his training and all. So, it's just plain asinine that these public colleges require those students who are unvaccinated but have post-infection immunity to be forced into testing! So, it's time for us to get more involved in the fight against mandates!

 

[jmdirt]

Thanks to Del & other antivaxxers for organizing the DC rally last weekend in protest of the mandates. Good turnout with guest speakers RFK, Jr & Dr. Robert Malone.

https://thehighwire.com/videos/journalist-calls-for-trial-of-the-press-that-lied-to-the-world/

Video: Vaccine scientist Robert Malone speaks at anti-vaxx rally in DC | Daily Mail Online

Vaccine scientist Dr. Robert Malone spoke at theat anti-vaccinations rally in Washington DC.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In fact, my son & I are going to join his organization & contribute to the fight against these totalitarianism mandates! Though Colo just lifted the one major vaccine mandate here in the state (vaccine required for indoor events with 500 or more in attendance), my son still has to go though the stress of weekly testing for the unvaccinated through the college mandates. There are some occasions where he's had to wait in line for over an hour at some of these poorly operated testing sites!

This is plain BS, because like me, he's has naturally immunity from his bout with the Delta variant last Sept. And unlike me, he was hardly sick at all, with extremely mild symptoms where he didn't miss a beat with his training and all. So, it's just plain asinine that these public colleges require those students who are unvaccinated but have post-infection immunity to be forced into testing! So, it's time for us to get more involved in the fight against mandates!

I'm a little surprised that you aren't more informed about how disease acquired immunity works. Your son's mild case likely didn't give him robust protection (plus Delta and September...).

He could avoid the stress and the lines with a few shots.

EDIT: You shouldn't use that clip to support anything. Its kind of strange that they would blast music from Meat Loaf who just died from SC2.

 

[Cookster15]

I'm a little surprised that you aren't more informed about how disease acquired immunity works. Your son's mild case likely didn't give him robust protection (plus Delta and September...).

He could avoid the stress and the lines with a few shots.

EDIT: You shouldn't use that clip to support anything. Its kind of strange that they would blast music from Meat Loaf who just died from SC2.

Vaccines give better protection than prior infection? I would be surprised ? I don't think severity of symptoms is relative to the immune response? After all the vaccines produce mild or no side effects.

I am sure its been covered here but do you mind posting some info that supports this clam? I have also been told here (Baltimore again) that my country was vulnerable because we didn't have much natural immunity. You can't have it both ways?

 

[Unchained]

No matter how big, passionate or professional an anti vax protest or post is never do they address health care,health care workers and their real world,everyday experience and expertise.
Doctors or administrators could plainly say, vaccine or no vaccine..take that as a stand alone..hospital staffing and capacity..infection amongst people in the hospital..those problems and solutions are life and death critical to all involved..
So the same mathematical impossibility over and over..have a complicated pregnancy,heart failure,major accident and you have limited staff and space, huge problem..introduce a bunch of needy patients with Covid..it becomes unsolvable....2,3 people one bed,something has to give..1 doctor 2,3 nurses and 10 people need immediate attention..again something has to give..
it's almost like arguing against smoke detectors or alarms,fire sprinklers..anything to slow the progress and spread is useful.
So maybe at a big anti mandate rally,instead of anger and nasty words,signs,t-shirts, someone can tell doctors how to be in 2,3,4 places at one time to care for emergency and critical care patients in need..
In most countries hospital architecture has been a huge impediment..people w Covid need to be isolating..and until a patients status is determined, they have to be isolated..and the people wo Covid need safety segregation to stay negative..where do you come up with a sub divided hospital in every way in 2 years...you don't

 

[jmdirt]

Vaccines give better protection than prior infection? I would be surprised ? I don't think severity of symptoms is relative to the immune response? After all the vaccines produce mild or no side effects.

I am sure its been covered here but do you mind posting some info that supports this clam? I have also been told here (Baltimore again) that my country was vulnerable because we didn't have much natural immunity. You can't have it both ways?

I DID post that (maybe more than once?). It was from Shane Crotty I believe. I may not be able to sort through all of his info to find it today, but here is the CDC answer:

MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with COVID-19 is better than the immunity I get from COVID-19 vaccination.
FACT: Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to COVID-19 than getting sick with COVID-19.

COVID-19 vaccination causes a more predictable immune response than infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine gives most people a high level of protection against COVID-19 and can provide added protection for people who already had COVID-19. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.
All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can offer some protection from future illness, sometimes called “natural immunity,” but the level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age.
Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is also a safer way to build protection than getting sick with COVID-19. COVID-19 vaccination helps protect you by creating an antibody response without you having to experience sickness. Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can cause severe illness or death, and we can’t reliably predict who will have mild or severe illness. If you get sick, you can spread COVID-19 to others. You can also continue to have long-term health issues after COVID-19 infection.

More specific:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

"Multiple factors contribute to the degree of immune response mounted following infection. Both binding and neutralizing antibody titers rise faster and reach a higher peak in persons with more severe COVID-19 [9, 10, 14]. People with symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection tend to have higher antibody titers than people who are asymptomatic, and people who are hospitalized tend to have higher antibody titers than people managed as outpatients [9, 10, 15, 16]. Studies have also demonstrated a correlation between cycle threshold (Ct) value and antibody titer, with lower Ct values being associated with higher antibody titers at the population level [9, 13]. "

"For at least 2–3 months following infection, people with moderate-to-severe COVID-19 illness have higher titers of binding and neutralizing antibodies than people with mild illness [9, 14]; these differences may persist for 5–8 months following infection [11, 15]. "