Wastewater testing nips a potential outbreak in the bud. Interesting thread from Univ of Arizona.
View: https://twitter.com/cfishman/status/1299049476288544768
View: https://twitter.com/cfishman/status/1299049476288544768
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I have seen this before and I admire your effort. You may be aware of a nation wide health care system that treats all people in the United States,compiles the data and has an open data base so that on every aggregate level citizens,health care professionals,school administrators,researchers,and everyone else can see who is sick where,what their make up is..and what was their successful or failed treatment plan..This is false.
The ‘no plan’ part is also false.
All true, but dealt with in NSW and other states. The Federal government responsibilities apply to every state. Only one state has the disaster. It can't be any clearer. But Victoria committed catastrophic errors. Of course there will continue to be positives in NSW, just like everywhere else in the world that is inevitable. It is how you respond which is important.
Australia has a 14 day quarantine rule for all international arrivals. Only Victoria made catastrophic errors. Yes what you suggest would be better but it has served well in every state except Victoria.
The evidence is clear, look up the stats:
As at 27-Aug-2020 (source Australian government):
Population / Cases / Deaths Cases in last 24 hours
Victoria / 6.6mil / 18714 / 485 / 113
NSW / 8.1mil / 4006 / 52 / 9
Most of NSW's cases were recorded early in March and after the cruise ship debacle. Until their catastrophic errors Victoria was recording no new cases on some days!
NSW has the virus under control (so far). What you describe is a response. NSW has responded. Victoria has failed. There is no comparison. Let me list out the failures of the Victorian state government not shared in any other state:
I am watching the enquiry. It will confirm what I write.
- Catastrophic failure to manage quarantine hotels.
- Poor contact tracing.
- Resisting offers for federal help when the Victorian arms of the bureaucracy couldn’t do the job.
- Not issuing any fines at the BLM demonstration in Melbourne, thus tacitly endorsing a huge event that broke social distancing restrictions and undermined the message to every other Australian.
- Not naming the known breakout at Cedar Meats and thus not getting all its casual contacts to test before spreading the virus far and wide.
You still haven't explained the Victorian disaster. You are talking in hypotheticals - yaco's hypotheticals. Yes I know that 93% of the cases in Aged Care Homes in Victoria occurred in Federal Government run places. So what? How do you think the virus got into Victoria's aged care homes? Victoria's problem was caused by poorly trained or incompetent security guards and a single infected family walking out of quarantine, plus Cedar Meats and the other failures I listed - all Victoria's problems. Not what you claim.You do not quarantine positive arrivals from overseas in hotels which are mainly serviced by non-medically trained staff having point of contact with this cohort of people - A similar system was implemented by all states and there is an element of luck in their good fortune I guarantee you that if positive people were placed in hospitals which were NEAR empty with the cancellation of elective surgery and the like the virus would not escape - Do you realise that 93% of the cases in Aged Care Homes in Victoria occurred in Federal Government run places , hence my concern about the Federal Government . I have asked you three times - Do you think positive arrivals from overseas should have been placed in hotels or in hospitals ? I'll add another question - You say you want to keep the virus out of Australia - The way to keep it out of Australia is to insist anyone returning from overseas must produce a negative COVID test 72 hrs before jumping out of a flight - I'll also add that all the experts suggest there is an element of luck in controlling the virus BUT more effective steps could have been taken by the Federal Government in stopping it's NEW entry from April 2020.
You still haven't explained the Victorian disaster. You are talking in hypotheticals - yaco's hypotheticals. Yes I know that 93% of the cases in Aged Care Homes in Victoria occurred in Federal Government run places. So what? How do you think the virus got into Victoria's aged care homes? Victoria's problem was caused by poorly trained or incompetent security guards and a single infected family walking out of quarantine, plus Cedar Meats and the other failures I listed - all Victoria's problems. Not what you claim.
As for insisting anyone returning from overseas must produce a negative COVID test 72 hrs before jumping out of a flight, that won't work either. testing does not always pick up everyone carrying the virus. Anyhow, the 14 day compulsory quarantine makes that redundant anyway. And as you would know not even China has been able to keep the virus out.
Perhaps you can also explain why the Victorian Premier isn't using any of your excuses?
Yaco's post has many interesting elements. Take a few things written in different states of realization. 72 hour old or new Covid tests a results are not,have not been a standard pre qualification for flying to and from the US. Both foreign and domestic flights to and from the US do not require Covid status to board or disembark either side.
there are guidelines said to be issued "soon" for basic health and safety standards in congregate care facilities,many have elderly residents \ patients. So depending on your point of view,better late than never,or the prevailing US government response,issuing guidelines,@8 months in, is a rapid response.
For American schools, incoming students are the vessels of virus transport and transmission. Incoming asymptomatic individuals introduce disease because of unknown status for the most part.
In the United States we do not have any national quarantine strategy guidelines. The three 30 day delays for border reopening w Canada and Mexico are set to be reevaluated on September 21st, quarantine or Covid status are not publicly part of the discussions.
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Obviously NSW made the right call by using army and police for hotel quarantine security. in Victoria they used private security companies who then subcontracted and it seems that some of the guards received minimal training. I just noticed on the news that 12 security guards have had their contracts terminated in NSW for conduct breaches so obviously NSW is also using private security as well. The Victorian method was no doubt cheaper but in the end much more costly in other ways............... but NSW also made major errors regarding the Ruby Princess cruise ship debacle and now these security breaches are not a good look.You do not quarantine positive arrivals from overseas in hotels which are mainly serviced by non-medically trained staff having point of contact with this cohort of people - A similar system was implemented by all states and there is an element of luck in their good fortune I guarantee you that if positive people were placed in hospitals which were NEAR empty with the cancellation of elective surgery and the like the virus would not escape - Do you realise that 93% of the cases in Aged Care Homes in Victoria occurred in Federal Government run places , hence my concern about the Federal Government . I have asked you three times - Do you think positive arrivals from overseas should have been placed in hotels or in hospitals ? I'll add another question - You say you want to keep the virus out of Australia - The way to keep it out of Australia is to insist anyone returning from overseas must produce a negative COVID test 72 hrs before jumping out of a flight - I'll also add that all the experts suggest there is an element of luck in controlling the virus BUT more effective steps could have been taken by the Federal Government in stopping it's NEW entry from April 2020.
Obviously NSW made the right call by using army and police for hotel quarantine security. in Victoria they used private security companies who then subcontracted and it seems that some of the guards received minimal training. I just noticed on the news that 12 security guards have had their contracts terminated in NSW for conduct breaches so obviously NSW is also using private security as well. The Victorian method was no doubt cheaper but in the end much more costly in other ways............... but NSW also made major errors regarding the Ruby Princess cruise ship debacle and now these security breaches are not a good look.
Sounds like there will be a reshuffle when Cormann resigns at the end of the year. Colbeck at least will be moved out you would think but the damage has already been done. Seems like the good early signs in Australia including Victoria made them a little complacent and also probably a bit self satisfied and it's only since things have gone pear shaped that the governments fully realize what a pandemic is like if it gets even slightly out of control. It will happen again in aged care unless the whole sector gets a makeover in budgeting, training, staffing and everything in between. A big task but one that aged care retirees should benefit from not to mention their families and also the staff. How some of these aged care homes are even certified is beyond comprehension and they need to be audited regularly for their effectiveness. I had my own experience with aged care and that was a decade ago. Sounds like little progress has been made. Increasing budgets for more in - home care is a must as well and the government has been trying to do that but it's a high demand service.At the end of the day Hazzard is still Minister for Health despite Ruby Princess, Colbeck is still Minister for Aged Care despite the aged care debacle and no Victorian Minister seems to be responsible for hotel quarantine - I will reiterate all positive arrivals ( and there are only a couple day ) should have been sent to hospitals then it's highly unlikely anything the virus would escape from this facility - We ended up with a cohort of untrained workers in infection control taking care of positive people which is a recipe for disaster.
The reason the virus seeped out of hotel quarantine centres in Victoria is because + people were placed in the wrong environment
Can positives who are not infectious at the time of the test become infectious at a later point?
Not true. It was because a failures in security by the Daniel Andrews Victorian state government. People were placed into the "wrong" environment in other states too, but they had properly trained and regulated security to ensure infected persons were not released into the community - unlike Victoria. Your suggestions might work but not implementing these policies does not explain why Australia is only showing a second wave thanks to the failures of one state government.
Then we should all be dead by now considering the number of pathogens we're exposed to. A healthy immune system is quite an effective mechanism in fighting off and recovering from pathogens. Nutritionally sound food & exercise improve immune defense activity & metabolic health:Our immune systems were not 'designed' to live in a world with 8 billion of us. Until very recently, humans lived as hunter gatherers dispersed in small groups, often eating parasite infested meat and drinking parasite infested waters. It evolved to suit those conditions. Flu was an infection in migrating waterfowl. SIV was an infection in primates. Water treatment and intensive agriculture changed everything. We are just living with the aftermath.
Yes at least Federally action is finally being taken. But Victoria is still in denial for its direct responsibility.Sounds like there will be a reshuffle when Cormann resigns at the end of the year. Colbeck at least will be moved out you would think but the damage has already been done. Seems like the good early signs in Australia including Victoria made them a little complacent and also probably a bit self satisfied and it's only since things have gone pear shaped that the governments fully realize what a pandemic is like if it gets even slightly out of control. It will happen again in aged care unless the whole sector gets a makeover in budgeting, training, staffing and everything in between. A big task but one that aged care retirees should benefit from not to mention their families and also the staff. How some of these aged care homes are even certified is beyond comprehension and they need to be audited regularly for their effectiveness. I had my own experience with aged care and that was a decade ago. Sounds like little progress has been made. Increasing budgets for more in - home care is a must as well and the government has been trying to do that but it's a high demand service.
Actually Minister Colbeck was moved aside. The few trained staff at quarantine hotels were the responsibility of the state government. Nobody is blaming that on the Federal government. I am not saying your approach to quarantine would not work. I am saying it does not explain why other states don't have Victoria's problem. Other states housed people outside of hospitals when they returned from overseas and they are almost virus free.Why shouldn't you place new arrivals who test positive in hospitals who at the time were quiet and are still quiet, to ensure the virus wouldn't escape from a highly regulated environment which is full of trained health care staff, as opposed to a hotch potch quarantine system set up in hotels at the last minute with few trained health staff. It's a fact that two security guards caught the virus from quarantine hotels in NSW and luckily hasn't spread into the community - As long as States refuse to place positive arrivals into hotels then you are increasing the chances of the virus escaping into the community - As Moving Target posted there have been a major mistakes by Government's and their Ministers but no-one has been held accountable