Cycle of Lies

[Race Radio]

Pretty simple.
It was Lim that Landis told the story too and Lim told JV.
Someone got the exact story mixed up - which is pretty normal.
But I was surprised that Macur didn't mention that Floyd said it did not happen that way.
The book is very good though.

As I understand it a bag was poured out, but it was more due to not needing it as they already had a huge lead and did not need to take the risk

 

[thehog]

did not happen like that.

I asked Floyd myself. At 2010 Doping conference in Geelong.

the famous IM or SKype chat between JV and Frankie, I think JV was taking liberties too. I dont think he can be trusted more than Armstrong IMnotsohumbleO

I would agree JV appears to oscillate depending in which way the wind is blowing and what he can get out of it.

The blood bag story is a good example that depending on who tells the tale has a different version of the truth. Or not.

In these situations it's not just the message but who's telling it.

 

[blackcat]

I would agree JV appears to oscillate depending in which way the wind is blowing and what he can get out of it.

The blood bag story is a good example that depending on who tells the tale has a different version of the truth. Or not.

In these situations it's not just the message but who's telling it.

I was pretty pi$$ed off when Floyd would not confirm it. It would have gone down in the annals as the most brilliant sporting anecdote ever

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I was pretty ****ed off when Floyd would not confirm it. It would have gone down in the annals as the most brilliant sporting anecdote ever

The substance of the story appears true.
The JV FA IM is first then Floyd's explanation to Kimmage.

Vaughters: funniest thing I ever heard – Johan and Lance dumped Floyd’s rest day blood refill down the toilet in front of him in last yrs tour to make him ride bad

Andreu: holy ****, I never heard that. That’s craz!!!

Yeah, I read those exchanges but I don’t...I can’t for the life of me think of what he was possibly referring to other than...In the incident on the bus, which was the last time I did a blood transfusion on that team, we were riding so well, and we were making everyone else look foolish, that the doctor gave me a half of a unit of blood and just threw the rest out. It wasn’t a malicious thing, he just said ‘Look, we need to keep this under control and the less we give you, the easier it is to manipulate.’ And I said ‘Come on, just give me the whole thing.’ And he said ‘No, we’re good enough.’ So it was nothing at all and I think that probably when I told that story to Allen Lim or to Vaughters…I wouldn’t have told that to Vaughters, that had to be hearsay, but I probably got confused with the contentious things that happened on Alpe D’Heuz a day later and it got turned into something it wasn’t. That’s just another one of those things that ended up in the press and I would look at it and get confused about what to do. I want to correct them, but if I correct them I have to tell them I actually blood doped, so I just have to ignore them like nothing happened.

 

[thehog]

I was pretty pi$$ed off when Floyd would not confirm it. It would have gone down in the annals as the most brilliant sporting anecdote ever

In wouldn't be too annoyed.

Bruyneel and Armstrong have certainly gone down in the anals of cycling

 

[Digger]

The substance of the story appears true.
The JV FA IM is first then Floyd's explanation to Kimmage.

Not really - ok both versions have it flushed down fair enough...
but one version and its rationale for flushing it down differs a great deal from the other....

so yeah I guess we can agree the blood was dumped...but personally I would believe Floyd's version of what happened.

But then again I don't believe much of what JV says - him saying that 80 to 85% of the peloton was clean in 2005, at his estimation, being an example...

 

[thehog]

But then again I don't believe much of what JV says - him saying that 80 to 85% of the peloton was clean in 2005, at his estimation, being an example...

Yes. Around the same time JV was signing avadavats to assist Lance in extorting millions from SCA.

Lance should sue JV for letting him do such a stupid thing! (I jest).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not really - ok both versions have it flushed down fair enough...
but one version and its rationale for flushing it down differs a great deal from the other....

so yeah I guess we can agree the blood was dumped...but personally I would believe Floyd's version of what happened.

And Floyd addresses that. He says Lim probably got some of the story mixed up with what happened with FL on the Alpe.

The main part is true - that a bag went down the loo. Back in 2009 (when the forum started) no one really was too interested in the reasons why.
Those that dismissed the story were not claiming that the bag was gotten rid of with the best of intentions.

 

[Digger]

Yes. Around the same time JV was signing avadavats to assist Lance in extorting millions from SCA.

Lance should sue JV for letting him do such a stupid thing! (I jest).

Yea maybe it was also around this time that JV was telling Cycle Sport magazine that Lance was an 'all American hero.'

So when the Gibney movie premiere was on and I saw JV there with hands in the hair along with Betsy, I am there thinking, why are you there exactly?

 

[blackcat]

In wouldn't be too annoyed.

Bruyneel and Armstrong have certainly gone down in the anals of cycling

scatology is underrated, and as Lance will find, the second n in annals is overrated.

 

[Digger]

Having said that, DR makes a valid point...five years ago the blood bag story was disputed by many...now we are only debating why it was thrown down the toilet...now we all knew they blood doped, but it's when you think of guys on here like Polish etc......how times change

 

[blackcat]

Yea maybe it was also around this time that JV was telling Cycle Sport magazine that Lance was an 'all American hero.'

So when the Gibney movie premiere was on and I saw JV there with hands in the hair along with Betsy, I am there thinking, why are you there exactly?

hypocrisy has never been a problem with JV. he can reconcile that fine just right. Is it the right testicle? Or the left one?

 

[Benotti69]

hypocrisy has never been a problem with JV. he can reconcile that fine just right. Is it the right testicle? Or the left one?

Isnt hypocriscy one of the exams to get an MBMA?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Having said that, DR makes a valid point...five years ago the blood bag story was disputed by many...now we are only debating why it was thrown down the toilet...now we all knew they blood doped, but it's when you think of guys on here like Polish etc......how times change

I would believe Floyds story to Kimmage is the correct version.
It is a first person account of what happened - and if Floyd was attempting to paint JB/USPS/LA in the worst light, thats a great opening, but he didnt.

And it a good example of how small things get taken out of context - it does not mean there was a deliberate attempt by Landis, Lim, JV or whoever - it was just some guys talking smack.
Example - :"I heard Floyds rest day refill was poured down the loo"
Why? "I don't know, but he had a big bust up with JB about joining Phonak"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Isnt hypocriscy one of the exams to get an MBMA?

Are there exams to get in to Metal Buildings Manufacturers Association?

I think your 'joke' failed - we will put it down to fatigue.

 

[blackcat]

Isnt hypocriscy one of the exams to get an MBMA?

selling out 101.

i thought he was selling land in denver not bridges in brooklyn

 

[Benotti69]

Are there exams to get in to Metal Buildings Manufacturers Association?

I think your 'joke' failed - we will put it down to fatigue.

Media Bachelor of Mega A£$eholes in JVs case.

We all know you had your sense of humour removed, maybe livewrong can help put you in touch with an organisation with aftercare.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Media Bachelor of Mega A£$eholes in JVs case.

We all know you had your sense of humour removed, maybe livewrong can help put you in touch with an organisation with aftercare.

See, now you are trying too hard and its poor- if you want to say something amusing or downright silly, just be yourself.

 

[thehog]

Actually in this particular example;

It's an "EMBA", whereby the 'E' is for Executive, meaning the degree forms part of your employment and work experience.

Suited to those who have worked for a long period and/or did not undertake a graduate degree in the first instance.

There's also a turn away from pure MBA graduates who lack real world experience.

EMBA is a good route to take. Forming experience into sound business principles and knowledge.

Although the institution selected in this case won't obtain Big 4 placement it will aid significantly the rise of JV the cycling executive.

Good on him.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Does someone know if the book will also be released in german.

My bet is RR knows about it!?

 

[Choocher]

Any consensus on which version offers more detail, the British or American versions of Cycle of Lies. I've heard that there are differences but nothing very specific.

 

[Berzin]

You know what Choocher, after 237 pages it gets to be a bit much.

I never thought I'd say this, but I have "Armstrong Hater Fatigue".

Every page includes at least one moment, if not more, of nausea-inducing behavior by either Armstrong or someone in his camp. It never ends.

Then it hit me-this is how mediocrities, people who have much more ambition than talent, make it in the world.

By commiserating with like-minded mediocrities, these types conspire to do anything they can to stay on top. The secret is to build a solid foundation where nothing they do is questioned, and if they do receive criticism, they attack like wild boars.

I can't see the British version containing anything the North American version doesn't have, but after a while it all becomes a blur.

So far, one of the worst parts has to be when Armstrong partook in a kiddie race for his charity and he didn't let the kid in front of the pack win. Beat him at the line.

I guess he was trying to teach the boy a lesson...

 

[Granville57]

Every page includes at least one moment, if not more, of nausea-inducing behavior by either Armstrong or someone in his camp. It never ends.

One word: Stapleton

What a piece of work. Without he and the other enablers, I have to wonder how far Armstrong would've gotten. It's sickening.

I'm about 3/4 the way through. It must be a tough subject to write about when so much that has already been covered needs repeating for the uninitiated. But there are many, many compelling elements to this story that are fresh in Macur's book.

The details of the relationship between Lim and Landis I found to be fascinating.

I've been taking my time with this book and taking notes. There's always more to every story, and Macur has added many pieces to the puzzle.

 

[Jeremiah]

I would agree JV appears to oscillate depending in which way the wind is blowing and what he can get out of it.

The blood bag story is a good example that depending on who tells the tale has a different version of the truth. Or not.

In these situations it's not just the message but who's telling it.

Wow! Very different than what you had to say in the "Vaughter's Spine" thread 3 and a half years ago....

11-05-10, 15:30
thehog
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,386

Susan this thread needs to be closed. It's gone too far. You're going to have the website shut down if the slander continues.

I'm very serious. This is really bad. The worst I've seen on this site.

You took great umbrage at Buckwheat's insistence that JV was spineless.

What does your first sentence mean if not spineless?

 

[Merckx index]

I was pretty pi$$ed off when Floyd would not confirm it. It would have gone down in the annals as the most brilliant sporting anecdote ever

How about Lim's story of how he decided he would no longer enable Floyd's doping?

After the 2005 Tour de France, Lim promised to babysit a bag of blood in Landis’s apartment during the Vuelta a España and deliver it on a rest day. At the time, Lim was contemplating working with young men riding clean for Vaughters, on a development team for riders under twenty-three that Vaughters had started in 2003. “Those young kids are not like Floyd, they are not like Lance, they are good kids,” Lim told me later. “I don’t ever want to see them go through this.”

He spent an afternoon with those kids in Girona. Then, instead of delivering the blood bag to Landis, he took it out of the refrigerator, placed it in the kitchen sink and stabbed it with a knife again and again.

And I thought this was one of the funniest passages in a book that needed some comic relief:

Landis also told Lim about the time the team doctor gave him a special pill. After ingesting it, he had a great ride. So when the doctor gave him another one of those pills the next day, Landis kept it without ingesting it. He had a brilliant idea. He would bring the pill home and have its ingredients identified. He would then make the pills himself. He would sell the powerful stuff. He would make millions of dollars and probably win the Tour every year for the rest of his life.
But the testing turned up only one ingredient. Sugar. The pill was a placebo.