Doping In Athletics

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Ha, Dina Asher Smith has exactly the sort of past history and development the clinic craves when discussing cyclists. She ran sub 10.99 for the 100m in 2015 and 22.07 for the 200m, and her personal best is still only 10.85/21.89. She was a world class junior winning medals at both 100/200 at world and European champs. Her 100m time is 60th on the all time list and her 200m time is 148th. Marion Jones my arse.
 
Wtf are these poles on. Normally they dominate the field events but middle distance this year they've been really really strong. And in a pretty suspicious way too, they just seem so much stronger and faster than everyone else towards the end of the race.
 
Apr 18, 2016
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Jakob Ingebrigtsen the 17 year old ran a 1500m of 3:52.28 on 26 May, which was the second-fastest ever by a 17 year old (only a now-banned doper had gone faster). Then barely two month later he ran 3:31:18, shaving off a whopping 22sec off his time.

Then over the weekend he completed a 1500m/5000m double at the European Champs..and wait for it, he did it on consecutive days.

What is this kid on?
 
Re:

QuickZulu said:
Jakob Ingebrigtsen the 17 year old ran a 1500m of 3:52.28 on 26 May, which was the second-fastest ever by a 17 year old (only a now-banned doper had gone faster). Then barely two month later he ran 3:31:18, shaving off a whopping 22sec off his time.

Then over the weekend he completed a 1500m/5000m double at the European Champs..and wait for it, he did it on consecutive days.

What is this kid on?
At the very least he's on a training plan that is more diligent than your fact checking.

26th May race was a MILE.

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/norway/jakob-ingebrigtsen-294868
 
Re: Re:

simoni said:
QuickZulu said:
Jakob Ingebrigtsen the 17 year old ran a 1500m of 3:52.28 on 26 May, which was the second-fastest ever by a 17 year old (only a now-banned doper had gone faster). Then barely two month later he ran 3:31:18, shaving off a whopping 22sec off his time.

Then over the weekend he completed a 1500m/5000m double at the European Champs..and wait for it, he did it on consecutive days.

What is this kid on?
At the very least he's on a training plan that is more diligent than your fact checking.

26th May race was a MILE.

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/norway/jakob-ingebrigtsen-294868
While you are correct ( i thought the same when I saw the OP) that doesn't exactly disqualify the suspicion against the kid.
 
Jul 27, 2014
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I hope Ingebrigtsen continues to improve as he reaches his 20s. Not because I care about his career particularly, just because it's going to be hilarious watching what the Africans come up with to try to beat him.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/24/kipyegon-bett-kenya-epo-tests-positive
Kipyegon Bett, Kenya’s world 800m bronze medal winner, has tested positive for the banned blood booster erythropoeitin (EPO).

The Athletics Kenya executive committee member Barnabas Korir said it received notification from the Athletics Integrity Unit on Thursday that the 20-year-old had submitted a positive sample. The AIU handles integrity and doping issues for the International Association of Athletics Federations.

If his positive test is confirmed, Bett, who finished just ahead of Britain’s Kyle Langford to win his medal at the world championships in London last year, will face a ban. He is already provisionally suspended for failing to submit to sample collection on 15 August.

“We had submitted defence for the case of ‘refusing or failing to submit to sample collection’ by Friday’s deadline. But last night, we received another notification about the new case,” Korir said.

“We have kicked off due process, accorded to every athlete as per the rules set by AIU. If the second test confirms the first one, then the athlete will have to face the consequences,” he said.

If his positive test is confirmed, Bett will join a growing list of Kenya athletes to have flouted anti-doping rules. The Milan marathon winner Lucy Kabuu tested positive for morphine earlier this month. Samuel Kalalei, the winner of Athens marathon last November, also tested positive for EPO on 4 June.

The Kenya-born Bahraini runner Ruth Jebet, the 2016 Rio Olympic 3,000m steeplechase champion, and the former Olympic and three-times world 1500m champion, Asbel Kiprop, were suspended after their samples tested positive for EPO in February. Kiprop denied wrongdoing.

Other Kenya athletes who failed dope tests are the 2016 Olympic marathon winner Jemima Sumgong and the former Boston City marathon winner Rita Jeptoo.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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Russian athletes Tatyana Lebedeva and Maria Abakumova have been stripped of three world track championship medals because of doping.

The Athletics Integrity Unit, which handles doping cases in track and field, says Abakumova has had her javelin results from August 2008-August 2012 erased, stripping her of her world championship bronze from 2009 and gold from 2011.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article217841205.html
 
Did n't even break a sweat! Easy peasy.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/09/eliud-kipchoge-sets-world-record-at-berlin-marathon.html
It is the greatest jump in marathon record times since 1967, but Kipchoge didn’t even look tired at the final stretch.
https://www.dw.com/en/kenyan-eliud-kipchoge-breaks-world-record-at-berlin-marathon/a-45506998
Kipchoge will be rewarded with a total sum of €120,000 ($139,614) for his performance on Sunday, including €50,000 for the world record, €40,000 for coming in first and a €30,000 bonus for keeping his time below two hours and four minutes.
 
Kipchoge has been getting a ton of positive press, including a rather credulous article in the NYT (which should know better) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/eliud-kipchoge-marathon.html

In which we read this quote: Bedford, the London Marathon director, said, “In the eyes of people who know and understand the sport, there is no doubt at all that he is anything other than clean, legitimate and honest.”

Seriously? The guy goes from a 5k specialist (and a very good one) to winning what, 9 marathons in a row and obliterating the record. Plus Kenyan.

Here is Kipchoge's magic formula. Train less hard: But perhaps what is most unusual about Kipchoge, 33, and his diet of monastic extremes is the one thing he does not do: overextend himself in training. He estimates that he seldom pushes himself past 80 percent — 90 percent, tops — of his maximum effort when he circles the track for interval sessions, or when he embarks on 25-mile jogs.
 
Feb 15, 2014
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Re: Re:

OldCranky said:
Singer01 said:
That's a rather fast marathon.
Indeed. Takes one minute and eighteen seconds off suspected doper Kimetto's time.

Nothing to see here :D
The former farmer Kimetto came from nowhere, then suddenly ran 2:04 at the age of 28. Kind of like training partner Geoffrey Mutai. Now he is injured all the time and does not finish marathons.

On the balance of things, I am happier that the marathon WR is with the consistent GOAT who has shown superb running talent since his youth. Even if he was aided by new Nike super shoes and/or other Nike athlete "benefits" (cough).
 
Jul 29, 2016
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USADA announces that Will Claye tested positive for a banned substance (clenbuterol) but it was determined the sample resulted from contaminated meat consumed in Mexico. He will not be suspended. The sample was collected out-of-competition.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Another doper cleared by USADA. LOL. Travis Tygart has got to be one of the biggest hyprocites in the world of sport these days. And that's saying a lot.
 
Oct 4, 2011
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Re:

Bolder said:
Kipchoge has been getting a ton of positive press, including a rather credulous article in the NYT (which should know better) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/eliud-kipchoge-marathon.html

In which we read this quote: Bedford, the London Marathon director, said, “In the eyes of people who know and understand the sport, there is no doubt at all that he is anything other than clean, legitimate and honest.”

Seriously? The guy goes from a 5k specialist (and a very good one) to winning what, 9 marathons in a row and obliterating the record. Plus Kenyan.

Here is Kipchoge's magic formula. Train less hard: But perhaps what is most unusual about Kipchoge, 33, and his diet of monastic extremes is the one thing he does not do: overextend himself in training. He estimates that he seldom pushes himself past 80 percent — 90 percent, tops — of his maximum effort when he circles the track for interval sessions, or when he embarks on 25-mile jogs.
It's not unusual at all for marathon runners to only hit 80% on interval training efforts. His maximum effort for intervals is way above what he could sustain for a marathon .
No one but a complete amateur who didn't know what they were at would run at race pace on a long run as training either for any amount of time. Marathon pace is very different to 10k/5k, so his training intervals on the longer runs would be at possibly 80%, which would be marathon paced efforts.ie not overextending himself.
Seriously the guy is doping to the gills but he still needs to train right.
 
Re: Re:

noddy69 said:
Bolder said:
Kipchoge has been getting a ton of positive press, including a rather credulous article in the NYT (which should know better) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/eliud-kipchoge-marathon.html

In which we read this quote: Bedford, the London Marathon director, said, “In the eyes of people who know and understand the sport, there is no doubt at all that he is anything other than clean, legitimate and honest.”

Seriously? The guy goes from a 5k specialist (and a very good one) to winning what, 9 marathons in a row and obliterating the record. Plus Kenyan.

Here is Kipchoge's magic formula. Train less hard: But perhaps what is most unusual about Kipchoge, 33, and his diet of monastic extremes is the one thing he does not do: overextend himself in training. He estimates that he seldom pushes himself past 80 percent — 90 percent, tops — of his maximum effort when he circles the track for interval sessions, or when he embarks on 25-mile jogs.
It's not unusual at all for marathon runners to only hit 80% on interval training efforts. His maximum effort for intervals is way above what he could sustain for a marathon .
No one but a complete amateur who didn't know what they were at would run at race pace on a long run as training either for any amount of time. Marathon pace is very different to 10k/5k, so his training intervals on the longer runs would be at possibly 80%, which would be marathon paced efforts.ie not overextending himself.
Seriously the guy is doping to the gills but he still needs to train right.
Not so different nowadays...
 
Re: Re:

gregrowlerson said:
noddy69 said:
Bolder said:
Kipchoge has been getting a ton of positive press, including a rather credulous article in the NYT (which should know better) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/eliud-kipchoge-marathon.html

In which we read this quote: Bedford, the London Marathon director, said, “In the eyes of people who know and understand the sport, there is no doubt at all that he is anything other than clean, legitimate and honest.”

Seriously? The guy goes from a 5k specialist (and a very good one) to winning what, 9 marathons in a row and obliterating the record. Plus Kenyan.

Here is Kipchoge's magic formula. Train less hard: But perhaps what is most unusual about Kipchoge, 33, and his diet of monastic extremes is the one thing he does not do: overextend himself in training. He estimates that he seldom pushes himself past 80 percent — 90 percent, tops — of his maximum effort when he circles the track for interval sessions, or when he embarks on 25-mile jogs.
It's not unusual at all for marathon runners to only hit 80% on interval training efforts. His maximum effort for intervals is way above what he could sustain for a marathon .
No one but a complete amateur who didn't know what they were at would run at race pace on a long run as training either for any amount of time. Marathon pace is very different to 10k/5k, so his training intervals on the longer runs would be at possibly 80%, which would be marathon paced efforts.ie not overextending himself.
Seriously the guy is doping to the gills but he still needs to train right.
Not so different nowadays...
Just seeing this now. The article is just wrong. Many coaches point to the jump in Marathon performances to harder and longer runs. 40k at 96-98% of race pace...

All the best Kenyan use the same course for the fastest 40 km before the race.

The course start at an elevation of 2020m, there are 20 km hilly finishing at 2195m, then they turn coming back.

This means the second half is globally downhill, and normally becomes faster than the first half of one minute - one and half minute.

I consider the difference per km, compared with the same effort at sea level on tarmac, of about 6 seconds : 3 seconds for the altitude (no more, for athletes born and living at the same altitude, or higher), and 3 seconds for the lack of grip (they run on rough roads, with training shoes, and normally the difference between one km on tarmac and one km on rough road is about 3 secs).

The best times ever in that course are :
Wilson Kipsang 2:03:32, 5 weeks before the WR in Berlin (2:03:23)
Abel Kirui 2:04:57 before London 2012 (when he had helycobacter)
Abel Kirui 2:05:57 before Chicago 2016 (he won)
Moses Mosop 2:07:15 in 2011 before Boston, when he ran 2:03:06: Till that time, nobody had run under 2:10, but after his training many athletes started to run 40 km very much faster than before.
Geoffrey Kirui ran 2:07:30 before winning Boston this year.

About the ladies, we have Mary Keitany in 2:18:36 before winning London in 2012 (2:18:37), Rita Jeptoo in 2:19:32 before winning Boston 2014, Florence Kiplagat 2:20:13 before winning Chicago last year.

We can say that, at 98% of effort, athletes can run about the same time they can have in competition.

This means that, from 40 to 30 days before the race, all the best runners in the world can run 40 km at 96-98% of max Marathon pace :

The time of Wilson (2:03:32), if we consider the difference of 6 seconds per km, can be like 1:59:30 - 2 hours at sea level, and this means a full Marathon between 2:06:20 and 2:07. If we compare this with the final performance of 2:03:23, we can see a difference of about 3 minutes, that in percentage is between 2.5 and 3% of the Marathon Speed.

This is the most important training before a Marathon, and the main reason of the difference in the performances between African and American runners in Marathon, when they have the same value in shorter distances.

A well trained Kenyan with 28:00 PB in 10 km can run 2:07, a "well trained" American with 28:00 is happy to run 2:11, because his long run NEVER is at the level of the final goal (both as speed and distance).
Kipchoge doesn't train less hard. his training log shows pretty intense training. Several runs of 40k, and every third run 30k or 40k long tempos. (his pre 2017 log is available http://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-full-training-log-leading-marathon-world-record-attempt/

I hate this "He/they (whoever)' is better because they train easier. Doping or not, the dudes work hard. They work harder than anyone else in the world.
 
Re: Re:

More Strides than Rides said:
gregrowlerson said:
noddy69 said:
Bolder said:
Kipchoge has been getting a ton of positive press, including a rather credulous article in the NYT (which should know better) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/eliud-kipchoge-marathon.html

In which we read this quote: Bedford, the London Marathon director, said, “In the eyes of people who know and understand the sport, there is no doubt at all that he is anything other than clean, legitimate and honest.”

Seriously? The guy goes from a 5k specialist (and a very good one) to winning what, 9 marathons in a row and obliterating the record. Plus Kenyan.

Here is Kipchoge's magic formula. Train less hard: But perhaps what is most unusual about Kipchoge, 33, and his diet of monastic extremes is the one thing he does not do: overextend himself in training. He estimates that he seldom pushes himself past 80 percent — 90 percent, tops — of his maximum effort when he circles the track for interval sessions, or when he embarks on 25-mile jogs.
It's not unusual at all for marathon runners to only hit 80% on interval training efforts. His maximum effort for intervals is way above what he could sustain for a marathon .
No one but a complete amateur who didn't know what they were at would run at race pace on a long run as training either for any amount of time. Marathon pace is very different to 10k/5k, so his training intervals on the longer runs would be at possibly 80%, which would be marathon paced efforts.ie not overextending himself.
Seriously the guy is doping to the gills but he still needs to train right.
Not so different nowadays...
Just seeing this now. The article is just wrong. Many coaches point to the jump in Marathon performances to harder and longer runs. 40k at 96-98% of race pace...

All the best Kenyan use the same course for the fastest 40 km before the race.

The course start at an elevation of 2020m, there are 20 km hilly finishing at 2195m, then they turn coming back.

This means the second half is globally downhill, and normally becomes faster than the first half of one minute - one and half minute.

I consider the difference per km, compared with the same effort at sea level on tarmac, of about 6 seconds : 3 seconds for the altitude (no more, for athletes born and living at the same altitude, or higher), and 3 seconds for the lack of grip (they run on rough roads, with training shoes, and normally the difference between one km on tarmac and one km on rough road is about 3 secs).

The best times ever in that course are :
Wilson Kipsang 2:03:32, 5 weeks before the WR in Berlin (2:03:23)
Abel Kirui 2:04:57 before London 2012 (when he had helycobacter)
Abel Kirui 2:05:57 before Chicago 2016 (he won)
Moses Mosop 2:07:15 in 2011 before Boston, when he ran 2:03:06: Till that time, nobody had run under 2:10, but after his training many athletes started to run 40 km very much faster than before.
Geoffrey Kirui ran 2:07:30 before winning Boston this year.

About the ladies, we have Mary Keitany in 2:18:36 before winning London in 2012 (2:18:37), Rita Jeptoo in 2:19:32 before winning Boston 2014, Florence Kiplagat 2:20:13 before winning Chicago last year.

We can say that, at 98% of effort, athletes can run about the same time they can have in competition.

This means that, from 40 to 30 days before the race, all the best runners in the world can run 40 km at 96-98% of max Marathon pace :

The time of Wilson (2:03:32), if we consider the difference of 6 seconds per km, can be like 1:59:30 - 2 hours at sea level, and this means a full Marathon between 2:06:20 and 2:07. If we compare this with the final performance of 2:03:23, we can see a difference of about 3 minutes, that in percentage is between 2.5 and 3% of the Marathon Speed.

This is the most important training before a Marathon, and the main reason of the difference in the performances between African and American runners in Marathon, when they have the same value in shorter distances.

A well trained Kenyan with 28:00 PB in 10 km can run 2:07, a "well trained" American with 28:00 is happy to run 2:11, because his long run NEVER is at the level of the final goal (both as speed and distance).
Kipchoge doesn't train less hard. his training log shows pretty intense training. Several runs of 40k, and every third run 30k or 40k long tempos. (his pre 2017 log is available http://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-full-training-log-leading-marathon-world-record-attempt/

I hate this "He/they (whoever)' is better because they train easier. Doping or not, the dudes work hard. They work harder than anyone else in the world.
No, the Africans work just as hard but are more genetically talented. In the past the African runners didn't employ the same science to their training as runners from Western nations did. Now they do. We see the incredible results when you combine optimal genetic talent with optimal sports science. 2:01:39? Just incredible that's 2:52 / km for 42.2Km. I shake my head.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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cookster the idea of genetic talent is a noble one....but still there is need to beat those others similarly gifted

ever watched u tube videos? wannabes from e africa talking about access to epo/ever looked at the 'popped list'

gotta utilise 'Every Possible Option' ..........like that guy breaking the marathon record by almost a minute

still had energy at finish to run up and down high fiving everyone

..........i shake my head too.....................
 

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