The Ukrainian federation had confirmed it hours before my last post.
http://www.biathlon.com.ua/print.php?lang=eng&id=6360
http://www.biathlon.com.ua/print.php?lang=eng&id=6360
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Mayomaniac said:
I was not necessarily referring to doping gossip. I like Dorothea as well, she seems to have a "if I have something in my mind I say it right in your face" personality.
Well I think "direct" was the word I was looking for
The IBU press release doesn't say anything about what was new about the analyzis.
Besseberg has given an interview with VG today where he says:
For explanations of Atypical finding (ATF) versus Adverse analytical finding (AAF):
http://www.ukad.org.uk/what-we-do/results-management
http://www.triathlon.org/news/article/anti-doping_news__atypical_findings
The talk of the suspicious samples fits the ATF (atypical findings) columns for the Cologne lab in the EPO section in the Laboratory part of WADAs testing figures report for 2013. (page 8)
There are listed 3 in competition (IC) ATF's and 2 out of competition (OOC) ATF's. The only other lab whit any EPO ATF's is Paris, with 2 (IC)
One of the five reanalyzed samples from biathlon that were found positive for EPO was from 2014, so not one of the 7 listed in the 2013 report. So there are three more 2013 ATFs for EPO, were they still negative or are there more EPO positives to come from 2013? Have the ones from the Paris lab been reanalyzed? Or is it only biathlon that is reanalyzing EPO ATF's?
Besseberg has given an interview with VG today where he says:
For explanations of Atypical finding (ATF) versus Adverse analytical finding (AAF):
http://www.ukad.org.uk/what-we-do/results-management
http://www.triathlon.org/news/article/anti-doping_news__atypical_findings
The talk of the suspicious samples fits the ATF (atypical findings) columns for the Cologne lab in the EPO section in the Laboratory part of WADAs testing figures report for 2013. (page 8)
There are listed 3 in competition (IC) ATF's and 2 out of competition (OOC) ATF's. The only other lab whit any EPO ATF's is Paris, with 2 (IC)
One of the five reanalyzed samples from biathlon that were found positive for EPO was from 2014, so not one of the 7 listed in the 2013 report. So there are three more 2013 ATFs for EPO, were they still negative or are there more EPO positives to come from 2013? Have the ones from the Paris lab been reanalyzed? Or is it only biathlon that is reanalyzing EPO ATF's?
She was totally rejuvenated after she begin using it right before the 2010 Olympics.melkemugg said:
It's no longer on the banned list. Everyone can now use it without a TUE.
WADA Technical Document – TD2014EPO HARMONIZATION OF ANALYSIS AND REPORTING OF ERYTHROPOIESIS
STIMULATING AGENTS (ESAs) BY ELECTROPHORETIC TECHNIQUES - effective from 1 September 2014
When Besseberg says there are now tests for every EPO type that he knows of it sounds a bit like when he yesterday didn't really know who the positive samples belonged to, or how many they were. There might be some EPO derivatives he doesn't really know of either. Helmut Pabst knows of at least 80.
STIMULATING AGENTS (ESAs) BY ELECTROPHORETIC TECHNIQUES - effective from 1 September 2014
When Besseberg says there are now tests for every EPO type that he knows of it sounds a bit like when he yesterday didn't really know who the positive samples belonged to, or how many they were. There might be some EPO derivatives he doesn't really know of either. Helmut Pabst knows of at least 80.
It's a pretty standard combination (long term effect and acute short term effect) asthma medicine. It's more interesting what she used before really:melkemugg said:
...although I think she claimed it was also because of a change in her training and racing regimen.Pazuzu said:
One of the EPO ATF's from 2013 is from road cycling. Best call Cookson and ask him if UCI had the sample stored and if they will retest it.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws...-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-SPORT-REPORT.pdf (page 14)
There is also one from marathon and one from athletics.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws...-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-SPORT-REPORT.pdf (page 14)
There is also one from marathon and one from athletics.
She also started working with a sports psychologist who had her visualize being chased by a tiger.MrRoboto said:
glad to see you posting again...that statement i bolded is curious.Discgear said:
of course, everyone knows/knew of northug's drunken escapades, but i did not know that sundby was also convicted of drunk driving
i'd be interested in reading more...what strikes me about your comment ('head and shoulders above the rest') is that such behavior would generally be strongly frowned upon by most scandinavians (with small exception of the danes).
in norway specifically, where such egalitarian behavior until very recently simply never took hold like we might have had in sweden historically speaking, it would be considered particularly inappropriate !
..and getting to your other point - the societal total wow at any even a slightest hint of doping. one has to wonder (and i'm hardly being original here), if protecting against or covering up for the 'never experiencing the wow' has become an integral part of defending the status operandi ?
Why is IBU all at once throwing old cases under the bus (again)?
A half-azzed attempt to look like the formal anti-doping line is real after their president was caught talking to Dr. Ferrari about treatment his mildly talented biathlete son, surely suffering from anaemia?
Also, in this time where non-profits are expected to support the western anti-Russian line. Sednev was born on the current border of Russia.
Sednev may have been informed of the positive at the time, and offered to quietly retire or take 2. Took retirement. Might now reconsider this, since the damage has been done anyway?
If something is actually amiss here, it makes you wonder whether the likes of Neuner got such a "deal"? "You have been performing suspiciously well, we're keeping an eye on you miss! Oh, now we got an a-typical finding. Want us to dig into it, ruin your name in the press even if it's nothing, or will you take another season and bug-ger off? It's a great deal sweetheart, go make house with your b/f and be Germany's heroin rather than the girly Ullrich."
And knowing what we know about UCI's mode operandi, it could even have been a fabricated or even imagined positive.
A half-azzed attempt to look like the formal anti-doping line is real after their president was caught talking to Dr. Ferrari about treatment his mildly talented biathlete son, surely suffering from anaemia?
Also, in this time where non-profits are expected to support the western anti-Russian line. Sednev was born on the current border of Russia.
Sednev may have been informed of the positive at the time, and offered to quietly retire or take 2. Took retirement. Might now reconsider this, since the damage has been done anyway?
If something is actually amiss here, it makes you wonder whether the likes of Neuner got such a "deal"? "You have been performing suspiciously well, we're keeping an eye on you miss! Oh, now we got an a-typical finding. Want us to dig into it, ruin your name in the press even if it's nothing, or will you take another season and bug-ger off? It's a great deal sweetheart, go make house with your b/f and be Germany's heroin rather than the girly Ullrich."
And knowing what we know about UCI's mode operandi, it could even have been a fabricated or even imagined positive.
Cloxxki said:
Considering especially your last sentence - how exactly would IBU benefit from retirement of someone so marketable as Neuner to fabricate a positive to force her out of the sport?
TomasC said:
Good question. Sports federations do tend to protect their Wunderkinder.
While Germany seems to have a prominent position within Biathlon, it could be that someone powerful was envious of Neuner. Or she turned down some guy's affections. I've seen weird stuff up close in the Dutch Cycling Union. One-man vendetta, albeit against an upcoming and now dominant technology, not even something personal.
We know that in the press, Neuner was outspoken about the IBU's anti-doping. She called for more out of competition testing. This is no proof in itself that she was clean, but it may have rubbed the IBU top the wrong way. Especially an IBU VICE (edit) president doping his son, likely seeing great things for his precious boy.
And while Hamilton and Landis were not Neuner's equivalents in cycling they sure were REALLY big names. According to their own revelations, more than thrown under the bus by the UCI top, whispered in the ear by the true big name of the sport who wanted some significant spacing between his level and theirs.
In the case of a true positive for Neuner, that one last season could have been a brokered compromise where even the ones wanting her out understood that an all too sudden and suspect retirement would cripple the sport. Purest of speculation, but it's interesting the kinds of unlikely scenarios are being forced upon us as plausible due to actual facts and under oath type of declarations from top athletes.
Cloxxki said:
Sednev's positive sample was from January 2013, he didn't retire until December 2014. He retired after he'd been informed that he was provisionally suspended, and cooked up some story about retiring because of "the poor results over the past seasons".
neineinei said:
Why at first was he given this opportunity, and only now the news comes out?
It seems that, as I've seen in Athletics, and we remember Contador, news from positive tests is taking the long route though national federations. Why the delay?
Cloxxki said:
IBU on 21 Dec:
I'm guessing the IBU rule book says they are not to announce names in doping cases until the B sample has been analyzed and found positive, or the athlete waives the right to have the B sample tested.
while neinei is probably accurately collecting his links, i remind that sednev and loginov positives were discussed in detail here including the timing of their publicity...loginov's was leaked by one of their ibu connected coaches (tichonov ?) b/c of their internal political wars. both sednev and loginov's positives were the result of new wada epo testing procedure that went into effect only in november 2014. both were presumed positives untill the athletes waived their b-samples (sednev siad he does not have $2500 they want him to pay for the test)
it is wholly another matter why are they turning up only eastern european positives ? one coach said they tested loginov 16 times (!) btwn the true positive and the last race. 16x$2500= how much ? to hunt down one athlete..
yes, $2500 is about right considering the testers travel, accommodations, sample air freight, lab test, paper work etc....
it is wholly another matter why are they turning up only eastern european positives ? one coach said they tested loginov 16 times (!) btwn the true positive and the last race. 16x$2500= how much ? to hunt down one athlete..
yes, $2500 is about right considering the testers travel, accommodations, sample air freight, lab test, paper work etc....
neineinei said:
You're right, I had forgotten about the B-sample. Sednev may have taken his time to wave it.
I wish positive A's were expressed sooner though. Belgian decathlete Vanderplaetsen has his positive (due to cancer) in the news before he could respond. In a way, that seems good.
Now Kenia is short 16 runners who were positive but won't be found. Ducking out for make use of a loophole?
Part of the reason for more Russian positives could well be quite simple: the extreme depth of competition for places and their notorious short-tempered selection policies. Other teams may have doping regimes in place, but with athletes being more secure in their places there is less pressure for them to overdo it, or take matters into their own hands. Zlatkauskas' statement on his EPO positive in December 2013 was fairly simple: "I wanted to go to the Olympics, I wasn't good enough, I doped to try to get there, I got caught, I'm guilty, don't bother with the B sample". Obviously he's not Russian, but for fringe members of the squad and people fighting for their place, you can readily imagine the Russian squad in an Olympic year was very much like that. Starykh's jump in performance from fringe IBU Cup team member to 3rd in the World Cup overall could well have been in part due to taking more risks than necessary to safeguard a position in the World Cup. If you look at the startlists for the Tyumen Governor's Cup, plenty of World Cup teams could gladly start the likes of Sergey Klyachin, Alexey Kornev, Larisa Kuznetsova, Uliana Denisova; but at the moment they can't even hold down an IBU Cup place. With the dates of the positives - all in the early part of the season when selections for the Olympics would be being set down - it's not a stretch to believe some athletes were taking more risks for selection than others.
Of course, the internal politics is another big matter, with Loginov's positive on the eve of the season coming out due to an internal leak (although as he was down in the squad for Östersund, they would have had to fabricate some illness or injury story to downplay any suspicion anyway once the IBU's comment became known - and it may have done earlier were it not already readily apparent it was Loginov since his positive was publicized). Pichler's complaints about the setting up of an "alternative" Russian women's squad to move influence away from him has to be taken into account; Pichler's training group contained the main core of the World Cup team (Zaitseva, Vilukhina, Glazyrina, Romanova, Shumilova and Sleptsova, with only the latter being a real outsider) but over the course of the season athletes from other groups increasingly usurped his. Starykh and Iourieva were both in the training group led by Vladimir Korol'kevich, who took over overall control of the Russian women's team with Pichler's departure, although he'd been becoming increasingly the more important of the two for some time prior to that. The "alternative" Russian team included members of Korol'kevich's group, also Daria Virolaynen, Olga Podchufarova and, curiously, Olga Vilukhina who was part of Pichler's group. Perhaps most interestingly, Vilukhina is taking a season out despite being only 26, and has not given any explanation. All of the other long-term absences have been explained; Gasparin and Kuzmina are pregnant, Vita Semerenko is injured, and Olena Pidhrushna has taken up politics (a brave move in Ukraine back in Spring last year for sure); Vilukhina's absence has not really been clarified.
Before he trained the Russian women, Vladimir Korol'kevich was in charge of the Ukrainian women. Many an eyebrow was raised at the impressive peaking their entire squad achieved at the World Championships in 2013. We now know that Sednev was doping just prior to those competitions. We also know that Russia had three athletes test positive in the first month of competition of the 2013-14 season - two female, one male. Certainly the positives for male athletes don't reflect anything on him directly, but it is definitely interesting. The EPO positives over the last two years have been Sednev, Loginov, Starykh, Iourieva, Zlatkauskas. Zlatkauskas is the only one whose positive does not come at a time when Korol'kevich was at the squad. I wonder if he is more than he seems, or if he has made himself too many enemies.
Of course, the internal politics is another big matter, with Loginov's positive on the eve of the season coming out due to an internal leak (although as he was down in the squad for Östersund, they would have had to fabricate some illness or injury story to downplay any suspicion anyway once the IBU's comment became known - and it may have done earlier were it not already readily apparent it was Loginov since his positive was publicized). Pichler's complaints about the setting up of an "alternative" Russian women's squad to move influence away from him has to be taken into account; Pichler's training group contained the main core of the World Cup team (Zaitseva, Vilukhina, Glazyrina, Romanova, Shumilova and Sleptsova, with only the latter being a real outsider) but over the course of the season athletes from other groups increasingly usurped his. Starykh and Iourieva were both in the training group led by Vladimir Korol'kevich, who took over overall control of the Russian women's team with Pichler's departure, although he'd been becoming increasingly the more important of the two for some time prior to that. The "alternative" Russian team included members of Korol'kevich's group, also Daria Virolaynen, Olga Podchufarova and, curiously, Olga Vilukhina who was part of Pichler's group. Perhaps most interestingly, Vilukhina is taking a season out despite being only 26, and has not given any explanation. All of the other long-term absences have been explained; Gasparin and Kuzmina are pregnant, Vita Semerenko is injured, and Olena Pidhrushna has taken up politics (a brave move in Ukraine back in Spring last year for sure); Vilukhina's absence has not really been clarified.
Before he trained the Russian women, Vladimir Korol'kevich was in charge of the Ukrainian women. Many an eyebrow was raised at the impressive peaking their entire squad achieved at the World Championships in 2013. We now know that Sednev was doping just prior to those competitions. We also know that Russia had three athletes test positive in the first month of competition of the 2013-14 season - two female, one male. Certainly the positives for male athletes don't reflect anything on him directly, but it is definitely interesting. The EPO positives over the last two years have been Sednev, Loginov, Starykh, Iourieva, Zlatkauskas. Zlatkauskas is the only one whose positive does not come at a time when Korol'kevich was at the squad. I wonder if he is more than he seems, or if he has made himself too many enemies.
sachenbacher-stehle intends to take ibu to court.
http://www.sportal.de/evi-sachenbac...en-biathlon-weltverband-1-2015011446542200000
(german)
poor evi said that ibu knew her doping was unintentional. that's how.
it is interesting that virtually no one had ever mentioned that poor evi, before she was convicted as a doping biathlete, was likely a blood doping xc skier.
though she never failed a dope test downright when skiing without a long gun, she was found with exceedingly high haemoglobi at least once. we also know for a fact, that in those years not all high haemoglobins were made public, especially if you could boast an olympic gold or 2...
http://www.sportal.de/evi-sachenbac...en-biathlon-weltverband-1-2015011446542200000
(german)
poor evi said that ibu knew her doping was unintentional. that's how.
it is interesting that virtually no one had ever mentioned that poor evi, before she was convicted as a doping biathlete, was likely a blood doping xc skier.
though she never failed a dope test downright when skiing without a long gun, she was found with exceedingly high haemoglobi at least once. we also know for a fact, that in those years not all high haemoglobins were made public, especially if you could boast an olympic gold or 2...
To be fair it must be said that an unusual high number of skiers didn't pass the pre games haemoglobin screenings for the 2006 Olympics;
Start prohibition 10.2. - 14.2.2006
Alen Abramovic (CRO), male
Pavel Korosteljev (RUS), male
Nikolai Pankratov (RUS), male
Robel Teklemariam (ETH), male
Start prohibition 9.2. - 13.2.2006
Sean Crooks (CAN), male
Sergey Dolidovich (BLR), male
Jean Marc Gaillard (FRA), male
Aleksandr Latsukin (BLR), male
Natalia Matveeva (RUS), female
Kikkan Randall (USA), female
Evi Sachenbacher (GER), female
Leif Zimmermann (USA), male
http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/...AdditionalStartProhibitionsIssued_Neutral.pdf
Some of them had probably been at altitude in Davos, for a World Cup competition 4-5 February, and their haemoglobin hadn't "come down" again before the screening in Pragelato 9-10 February. At least that what Bengt Saltin gave as a probable explanation for the high number of start prohibitions. (Aftenposten 11 February 2006)
But Evi seems to like court procedings. She took FIS to CAS over the start prohibition too, demanding she should receive a dispensation from the FIS Hb rule (upper limit of less than 16.0 for ladies) for the duration of the Olympic Games.
Her haemoglobin rose from 15.6 in Davos 4 Feb to 16.5 in Pragelato 9 Feb, and she had an uncommon pattern of fluctuating haemoglobin levels through four years. What came out of the CAS ruling was a lot more damning than a mere start prohibition.
http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/CaseLaw/Shared Documents/OG 06-004.pdf
Start prohibition 10.2. - 14.2.2006
Alen Abramovic (CRO), male
Pavel Korosteljev (RUS), male
Nikolai Pankratov (RUS), male
Robel Teklemariam (ETH), male
Start prohibition 9.2. - 13.2.2006
Sean Crooks (CAN), male
Sergey Dolidovich (BLR), male
Jean Marc Gaillard (FRA), male
Aleksandr Latsukin (BLR), male
Natalia Matveeva (RUS), female
Kikkan Randall (USA), female
Evi Sachenbacher (GER), female
Leif Zimmermann (USA), male
http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/...AdditionalStartProhibitionsIssued_Neutral.pdf
Some of them had probably been at altitude in Davos, for a World Cup competition 4-5 February, and their haemoglobin hadn't "come down" again before the screening in Pragelato 9-10 February. At least that what Bengt Saltin gave as a probable explanation for the high number of start prohibitions. (Aftenposten 11 February 2006)
But Evi seems to like court procedings. She took FIS to CAS over the start prohibition too, demanding she should receive a dispensation from the FIS Hb rule (upper limit of less than 16.0 for ladies) for the duration of the Olympic Games.
Her haemoglobin rose from 15.6 in Davos 4 Feb to 16.5 in Pragelato 9 Feb, and she had an uncommon pattern of fluctuating haemoglobin levels through four years. What came out of the CAS ruling was a lot more damning than a mere start prohibition.
http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/CaseLaw/Shared Documents/OG 06-004.pdf
-------------------python said:glad to see you posting again...that statement i bolded is curious.
of course, everyone knows/knew of northug's drunken escapades, but i did not know that sundby was also convicted of drunk driving
what strikes me about your comment ('head and shoulders above the rest') is that such behavior would generally be strongly frowned upon by most scandinavians (with small exception of the danes).
in norway specifically, where such egalitarian behavior until very recently simply never took hold like we might have had in sweden historically speaking, it would be considered particularly inappropriate !
..and getting to your other point - the societal total wow at any even a slightest hint of doping. one has to wonder (and i'm hardly being original here), if protecting against or covering up for the 'never experiencing the wow' has become an integral part of defending the status operandi ?
I agree about the idea that drunk-driving is a sympthom of a personality that does not take rules too seriously. If you look at Northug racing though, his capacity is very often lower than the competition, but because of the lack of long hills, he usually can hang on and use his superior finish to win.
As for Sundby drunk-driving, what I heard was that that was a long time ago, when he was a junior.
Getting drunk is not something that is frowned upon very much in Norway, more like something everybody does. But surely drunk-driving is regarded as something entirely different. Northug also left his lightly injured friend behind in the car, while escaping in hope of getting away with it. Even though drunk, not exactly a plus for his character.
Pazuzu said:
-------------
Interesting, what I read was that she visualized herself as BEING THE TIGER !
Anyway, when asked what she wanted after finishing the last leg of the tour de ski, she answered with a dirty look to the journalist that she wanted something he could not give her....
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