Doping in XC skiing

[JMBeaushrimp]

Well, then you have to wonder why he even spoke about two positives in the first place. If there are many more that were caught, why only open up about these two? Why should we take the ambiguous part of what he's saying more seriously than what's clearly written? It doesn't make any sense.

Personally, I think his objective was to allude to the fact that even if athletes are getting popped, they may not be suspended due to financial, political, and even legal constraints.

When the IOC is involved, it's even more of a 'public secret' since it has the potential of marring a multi-billion dollar/euro event that is more interested in corporate marketing than clean sporting excellence.

Remember Juan Antonio Samaranch? He thought that testing at the Olys should be abolished, and he was running the show for decades.

Nice leadership...

 

[Discgear]

Well, then you have to wonder why he even spoke about two positives in the first place. If there are many more that were caught, why only open up about these two? Why should we take the ambiguous part of what he's saying more seriously than what's clearly written? It doesn't make any sense.

There is a lot of plausible explanations to this. Here is one: testing of darbopotein was new and expensive to fulfill. They saw a lot of suspicious blood samples but were only allowed to further investigate a few.

 

[BullsFan22]

I hate to drag him into this, but is anyone else scratching his/her head watching Cologna and how quickly he found his form after not being able to train on skis for two months? He has been a top 3 skier for 5 years now, won in Vancouver, won at Val Di Fiemme last year, multiple WC overall champion, multiple Tour De Ski titles, U23 world champion, Engadin Marathon champion, etc, etc. He is perhaps the best XC skier in the world (no offense to the Norwegians), but even with his talents, his composure, the way he came back from missing so much time and having only done 3 or 4 races before the Olympics is almost surreal. It was mentioned earlier that his manager is/was Marc Biver. I had no idea and not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things, but I am just curious to see what any of you here in The Clinic think of his performances, first in Toblach 10 days ago and the 30km skiathlon yesterday.

 

[Trond Vidar]

I hate to drag him into this, but is anyone else scratching his/her head watching Cologna and how quickly he found his form after not being able to train on skis for two months? He has been a top 3 skier for 5 years now, won in Vancouver, won at Val Di Fiemme last year, multiple WC overall champion, multiple Tour De Ski titles, U23 world champion, Engadin Marathon champion, etc, etc. He is perhaps the best XC skier in the world (no offense to the Norwegians), but even with his talents, his composure, the way he came back from missing so much time and having only done 3 or 4 races before the Olympics is almost surreal. It was mentioned earlier that his manager is/was Marc Biver. I had no idea and not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things, but I am just curious to see what any of you here in The Clinic think of his performances, first in Toblach 10 days ago and the 30km skiathlon yesterday.

Dario is a freak. And he did not miss any capacity training what so ever when he was out. He also lives on the same magic heigh that Sotchi is raced on.

When Northug was out with a virus in september, he missed 150 hours of training and gained weight.

Dario is the best skier in the world, a better allrounder and more consistent than anyone else. He does not always win, but I would say he is the one with the most traditional capacity and bridges well over into the sprint stuff.

 

[Velo1ticker]

Dario is a freak. And he did not miss any capacity training what so ever when he was out. He also lives on the same magic heigh that Sotchi is raced on.

When Northug was out with a virus in september, he missed 150 hours of training and gained weight.

Dario is the best skier in the world, a better allrounder and more consistent than anyone else. He does not always win, but I would say he is the one with the most traditional capacity and bridges well over into the sprint stuff.

I'm sorry to disapoint you but Dario did miss a lot of training:
http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-countr...ario-cologna-sui-set-return-after-injury.html "Cologna was training for four weeks only indoors, in the water and working on his upper body. “It feels great to be back on skis, I am improving every day. I can increase the training load every day,” Cologna revealed."

He was of six to eight weeks almost a repeat of Vancouver. He is Swiss and they do not dope. Furthermore is the TdS the hardest competion to win and he wins it regulary.

 

[python]

of course no one should get a pass just on the basis of their superior talent, but i agree with trond re. cologna...

not only cologna is the most complete allrounder in the sport (iow, proficiency in both styles, distance vs sprint etc), but he also has one of the best tactical brains with a splendid sense of psychological aspects of the xc ski competition and his own mental stability.

check the vids where he won - many different ways...

as to being absent all season and immediately beating every upon return, yeah, this can legitimately raise eyebrows. it could due to 'help' or extra motivation or hunger for competition or the confluence of the factors...one thing we need to keep in mind - all elite athletes of his level heavily rely on scientific training and testing.
they and their coaches have a good idea as to how to tune the engine - maxing the innate vo2 or the lactate tolerance etc...

one thing they can not 'do at home' is getting the sharpness of the real competition. in that regard, cologna storming back needs a longer open-minded look.

 

[Velo1ticker]

of course no one should get a pass just on the basis of their superior talent, but i agree with trond re. cologna...

not only cologna is the most complete allrounder in the sport (iow, proficiency in both styles, distance vs sprint etc), but he also has one of the best tactical brains with a splendid sense of psychological aspects of the xc ski competition and his own mental stability.

check the vids where he won - many different ways...

as to being absent all season and immediately beating every upon return, yeah, this can legitimately raise eyebrows. it could due to 'help' or extra motivation or hunger for competition or the confluence of the factors...one thing we need to keep in mind - all elite athletes of his level heavily rely on scientific training and testing.
they and their coaches have a good idea as to how to tune the engine - maxing the innate vo2 or the lactate tolerance etc...

one thing they can not 'do at home' is getting the sharpness of the real competition. in that regard, cologna storming back needs a longer open-minded look.

So you like him. Is it **** enough for you that he is clean. I think OEB has the same if not stronger motivation as it is his last Olympic, and he has been in contetion all season. This isn't **** of anything other than that you like Cologna. Too bad Cologna didn't give us his best (Muhlegg perfomance) nevertheless his win was more impressive than Bjorgen.

 

[python]

if that's how you read what i wrote about cologna, you either blind or deaf or have a personal issue.

 

[manafana]

at end of day despite what some like say if cycling uses it then all the other endurance sports are doing the same too, nothing makes a marthon runner or a cross country skier different their will always be one who will do anything to beat the others.

 

[Trond Vidar]

I'm sorry to disapoint you but Dario did miss a lot of training:
http://www.fis-ski.com/cross-countr...ario-cologna-sui-set-return-after-injury.html "Cologna was training for four weeks only indoors, in the water and working on his upper body. “It feels great to be back on skis, I am improving every day. I can increase the training load every day,” Cologna revealed."

He was of six to eight weeks almost a repeat of Vancouver. He is Swiss and they do not dope. Furthermore is the TdS the hardest competion to win and he wins it regulary.

I don't think Cologna dopes. I happen to think that he is clean.

He missed out on outdoor training for four weeks. Big deal. There is a massive amount of training that can be done indoors for skiing. His base was also incredible before this. Not moving at all for four weeks is different. I am sure Cologna worked out incredibly hard, and the alternative workouts could even be a welcoming change.

Sundby does most of his rollerski and upper body workout indoors. You can do immense workouts on the double poling machines and roller ski machines in different variations.

Check out how Aalsgaard trains indors at the age of 42 (after this session they went out and double poled for 3 hours):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy9cm5NU_1M

 

[Velo1ticker]

if that's how you read what i wrote about cologna, you either blind or deaf or have a personal issue.

You have to leave yourown personal issues now:

Maybe you are the blind one as I have applied your logic to Cologna. Hiding and/or not competing, a huge comeback (three wins out of three) and not to forget he is winning the toughest completion – TdS regularly. He has a Norwegian coach. What have you learned? Well, you’re a fanboy! Your arguments are less than impressive. All you can say is: “I think he is clean.” Now that you have been made aware of your 100 % failure to clear him. To repeat your garbage:
it could due to 'help' or extra motivation or hunger for competition or the confluence of the factors...one thing we need to keep in mind - all elite athletes of his level heavily rely on scientific training and testing.
they and their coaches have a good idea as to how to tune the engine - maxing the innate vo2 or the lactate tolerance etc...
Absolutely ridiculous – confluence of the factors…. Ha-ha is this the new sky line? You usually claim that someone is good because he on something? Longer open-minded look is that taken from Lance’s defense or Rogges stragy plan?
I am pointing out that the condemnation of certain skiers are based on the same I have written about Cologna and you and others just say I do not think so. This makes everyone find out just how hard/solid your evidence is against others.
No one noticed OEB’s super skis in the pursuit. It looked pretty clear to me that he had fantastic skis. Of course no one noticed – this is the Norwegian bashing thread where every indications of innocence are discarded. This thread where 1 shoot from winning worlds championship is out of and in contention at the same time depending upon who it is!?

 

[python]

Here is what I said about cologna. the post is still there.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1395788&postcount=1749
A short post. not one word about him being clean, but giving him credit where it is due yet several passages about being cautious re. his sudden results:

of course no one should get a pass just on the basis of their superior talent

as to being absent all season and immediately beating every upon return, yeah, this can legitimately raise eyebrows.

in that regard, cologna storming back needs a longer open-minded look.

Seeing a fan in someone saying these things takes more than a stretch - it is a sign of cerebral internal confusion.Or a personal issue to compensate for exposure of a bro fan boy who sees pedofiles and dysfunctional frontal lobes in those questioning norwegian 90s.

here an advise for a fool.
When you talk to yourself in from of the mirror, please care to wipe off your saliva so that you could see yourself.

 

[Cloxxki]

It's a bit of an Olympic tradition to win gold (rarely silver or bronze it seems) after a horrific injury. Just my little country has 2 legends that were created this way. Like both built on EPO.
Not being in competition all season gives an athlete with plenty of money and technical resources lots more freedom. If the national ADA takes it easy on you, and you're not too dependant on mental race form, it's hard to find a better way to prepare. It's a gamble, and in the case of Cologna there may not have been many other options, but to be fit in one specific race, it seems like a decent path to excellence to me.
I will say that IMO indeed Cologna has shown the best skiing of this era. the little weakness he had, sprinting, he improved the past years, winning big bursts for the line. His capacity may be just 0.5% greater than most of his competition, but he gets that 0.5% gain every single time. The ones who have greater capacity, natural or chemical, consistent or one-day wonder, have a hard time capitalizing on that, because Cologna skis like Cologna.
I do think doping is a big part of Cologna's success, but he's taking on Norwegians who are looking increasingly suspect, and Russians who manage to hit 50+% Hct. The skiing omerta is simply a real omerta, cycling was just a very leaky excuse of an omerta.

 

[Marco Pantani]

Looks like Cologna wasnt interested to get tested today.

 

[kingjr]

Looks like Cologna wasnt interested to get tested today.

Because crashing is the way of choice to come in last, exactly.

 

[figgelura]

You have to leave yourown personal issues now:

No one noticed OEB’s super skis in the pursuit. It looked pretty clear to me that he had fantastic skis.

Perhaps it is you that should leave your own personal issues.

You defending norwegians Always have to bring out your fantastic skiis. I have Another explenation. OEB should atend the dopingcontrols.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11141961

 

[Benotti69]

sad reading

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/0...ge-but-stain-of-doping-lingers.html?referrer=

 

[blackcat]

It's a bit of an Olympic tradition to win gold (rarely silver or bronze it seems) after a horrific injury. Just my little country has 2 legends that were created this way. Like both built on EPO.
Not being in competition all season gives an athlete with plenty of money and technical resources lots more freedom. If the national ADA takes it easy on you, and you're not too dependant on mental race form, it's hard to find a better way to prepare. It's a gamble, and in the case of Cologna there may not have been many other options, but to be fit in one specific race, it seems like a decent path to excellence to me.
I will say that IMO indeed Cologna has shown the best skiing of this era. the little weakness he had, sprinting, he improved the past years, winning big bursts for the line. His capacity may be just 0.5% greater than most of his competition, but he gets that 0.5% gain every single time. The ones who have greater capacity, natural or chemical, consistent or one-day wonder, have a hard time capitalizing on that, because Cologna skis like Cologna.
I do think doping is a big part of Cologna's success, but he's taking on Norwegians who are looking increasingly suspect, and Russians who manage to hit 50+% Hct. The skiing omerta is simply a real omerta, cycling was just a very leaky excuse of an omerta.

<think> chicken rasmussen Dolomiti Mexico

 

[RobbieCanuck]

The following is a detailed and very informative analysis of the situation in 2002-2007. It's a fantastic read.

http://www.ussa.org/magnoliaPublic/dms/documents/2008-09/Rasmus-study/Rasmus study.pdf

I cannot find it. Is there another URL?

 

[RobbieCanuck]

As I'm opening my eyes these months, I fail to see why XC should have been any cleaner than cycling, and that is apart from this interesting investigation.

Oh, and Johann Olaf Koss (speed skater) studied medicine, he's be stupid not to know all about EPO. Was it 1994 he won all? Heralded charity guy now, a save the world and our kids guy. Sounds eerily familiar.

Your indirect analogy to LA and his Livestrong organization is ludicrous. There is no evidence, period, end of story Koss doped. Your implied suggestion he did is sheer speculation and reckless.

Koss started Right to Play which is an amazing organization and supported by hundreds of Olympic athletes virtually all of whom have reputations for being clean. Your statements are essentially defamatory! Until you have some facts rather than the usual Clinic cynicism, BS and inaccuracies I suggest you keep your mouth shut.

 

[Cloxxki]

As I'm opening my eyes these months, I fail to see why XC should have been any cleaner than cycling, and that is apart from this interesting investigation.

Oh, and Johann Olaf Koss (speed skater) studied medicine, he's be stupid not to know all about EPO. Was it 1994 he won all? Heralded charity guy now, a save the world and our kids guy. Sounds eerily familiar.

Your indirect analogy to LA and his Livestrong organization is ludicrous. There is no evidence, period, end of story Koss doped. Your implied suggestion he did is sheer speculation and reckless.

Koss started Right to Play which is an amazing organization and supported by hundreds of Olympic athletes virtually all of whom have reputations for being clean. Your statements are essentially defamatory! Until you have some facts rather than the usual Clinic cynicism, BS and inaccuracies I suggest you keep your mouth shut.

What exactly is wrong about seeing the parallel between Koss and Armstrong, when Koss is even an MP?
A 1500m specialist breaks the 10km WR (classics specialist rules GC's) which was never after beaten on rigid skates. Few skaters today manage that time, even at altitude, on clapskates.
Livestrong was also a great org supported by many. Heck, I was one of the millions supporting it in my little way. Perhaps Koss does live in poverty and doesn't get any kick backs ever. No personal speaking fees, nothing.
It does't really matter for the topic at hand - suspect performances.
It's not a big stretch to consider the Dutch speed skaters were well prepared for Lillehammer. PDM used EPO from 1987. We had an 800m OC in 1992 Barca. Yet Koss upped his game by several per cents.
Swell guy, giving back to the world I'm sure, but hard to make a case or him having been clean. Perhaps when he got off the juice he realized just how much his boost had been, and he went all-out to try and balance his Karma. Totally what I would have done, had I sunk so low.
Hey, it's just speculation. After time, nearly all come out. I'm not betting anything that Koss as an old man on his deathbed will whisper to the nurses that he really was clean all along.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

We are all entitled to our opinions. However, please don't invent "facts".

* A 1500m specialist breaks the 10km WR (classics specialist rules GC's)
* which was never after beaten on rigid skates.
* Few skaters today manage that time, even at altitude, on clapskates.

* Koss was a great 1500 m skater, and set one WR. In comparison he set five 5.000 m and two 10.000 m WR. He won the overall WC title on 1500 m twice (1990 and 1991) and twice the combined 5.000/10.000 m (1991 and 1994).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Olav_Koss#World_records

* Within a couple of years after the Lillehammer Olympics, the superior clap skates were the order of the day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clap_skate

* As of today, there are recorded 632 times sub 13:30 - Koss’s 1994 WR.
http://www.speedskatingstats.com/index.php?file=splittimes&g=m&stats=001&event=10000

 

[MrRoboto]

jeezus, associating those exhibitionist proclivities with their later doping busts, i can't understand why wada wasted so much money testing iourieva and chepalova ?

just google them to death and if they ever were associated with public nudity - sack'em.

2 nudity freaks and 2 dopers.

a bulls eye.

any more ?

Gössner now

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Gössner now

(she's better than this)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

(she's better than this)

Better? Looks close to perfect from what I can tell.