Doping in XC skiing

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Jun 22, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Mayomaniac said:
Nobody knew about it, maybe the gave him a soft ban durning the summer as a warning, tune it down and don't make it look that easy, who knows...
Petter finally got his Tour de Ski win, Libertine is probably partying hard right now. :D
If it means he's finally achieved all he wants and can now p**s off to the prison sentence he didn't serve, then I'm all for it.

LOL. In all fairness to Petter, he's been very diplomatic of Sundby (understandable, being a fellow Norwegian and teammate on the national team) but also of Legkov (friends) and the recent news surrounding Sochi. He does some stupid stuff on and off the ski tracks, yet he never gets penalized for it. Perhaps this is why he doesn't mouth off on serious issues facing Sundby and Legkov. He knows he's been protected by the authorities as much as anyone. And the problems he has with the Norwegian federation is hardly a blimp on his radar. He still gets tons of sponsorships, tons of support from inside and outside of the federation and he does as he chooses. I think he is smart enough to know when to cool off, keep quiet or simply be diplomatic and pragmatic.
 
Feb 8, 2016
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It would be very interesting to hear which astma medications other athletes use, and how it is administered. As I understand the CAS report ( http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Award__FINAL_.pdf ), the ruling means that any nebulised Sabutamol (without TUE) is a violation of the WADA-code, since it is not available in small enough doses. From what I can find Bjørgen is using Symbicort, which from what I can see isn't available for nebulisation.

I also find it quite interesting that Johnsrud Sundby is taking his full daily dose within five hours on before competitions. From the CAS-report: "Although the prescribed dosage is within the manufacturer’s therapeutic guidelines for 24 hours, when administered within five hours, it must be described as unnecessarily high."

I would also be very interested in seeing a journalist asking about the possible connection between the use of high doses of astma medications and the heart problems both Bjørgen and Johnsrud Sunby have experienced at some point.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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aagerpris said:
It would be very interesting to hear which astma medications other athletes use, and how it is administered. As I understand the CAS report ( http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Award__FINAL_.pdf ), the ruling means that any nebulised Sabutamol (without TUE) is a violation of the WADA-code, since it is not available in small enough doses. From what I can find Bjørgen is using Symbicort, which from what I can see isn't available for nebulisation.

I also find it quite interesting that Johnsrud Sundby is taking his full daily dose within five hours on before competitions. From the CAS-report: "Although the prescribed dosage is within the manufacturer’s therapeutic guidelines for 24 hours, when administered within five hours, it must be described as unnecessarily high."

I would also be very interested in seeing a journalist asking about the possible connection between the use of high doses of astma medications and the heart problems both Bjørgen and Johnsrud Sunby have experienced at some point.

Good questions. In Sweden all the expertis and XC-community have showed support for Sundby. However in Finland, the medical director of Anti-Doping Committee ADT, Timo Seppälä has raised some severe questions. http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001223864.html
First he states that this violation had been punished in Finland and thinks it is national interests behind the very short and mild punishment. Normally MJS would have been expelled 4 years from competition.
He also says that the very high concentrations of salbutamol in MJS urin has anabolic effects.
 
Apr 3, 2016
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At first I was really excited by the possibility of Sunday actually being caught (I really want him out of the WC). When I saw what this stuff was about though I merely shrugged, salbutamol? Really? Beta 2 agonists? Lol ok, half the field uses this medication.

There's a lot of misconception regarding asthma medication. Your lungs are NEVER the limiting factor to aerobic performance. You can increase ventilation to about 11 times the baseline, while heart liters per minute can only increase about 5 times baseline. So if you have asthma, asthma medication is actually working, you bronchioles dilate to a normal physiological level (or more likely, somewhat less due to chronic inflammatory change and thickening of the interstitial tissue and smooth muscle hypertrophy) and obstructive symptoms decrease. If you do not have asthma, no amount of asthma medication will help you perform better, as your bronchioles are already performing well. Of course at certain levels, there might be systemic effects, but at the hospital where I work, we often give 5mg salbutamol in a nebulizer for inhalation in acute asthma or COPD, and I have not seen systemic effects like increased heart rate or restlessness etc.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Discgear said:
Good questions. In Sweden all the expertis and XC-community have showed support for Sundby. However in Finland, the medical director of Anti-Doping Committee ADT, Timo Seppälä has raised some severe questions. http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001223864.html
First he states that this violation had been punished in Finland and thinks it is national interests behind the very short and mild punishment. Normally MJS would have been expelled 4 years from competition.
He also says that the very high concentrations of salbutamol in MJS urin has anabolic effects.

Some more mindboggling information from Seppälä:

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/a1468984770191
Sundby took on instructions from team doctor three portions of 5 000 micro gram per day. Wada guidlines are 1 600 micro gram.

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/hiihtolajit...undbysta-vain-akuutteihin-kohtauksiin/5997854
Nebulizer should only be used in emergency cases with asthma. Sundby have been using Nebulizer in daily treatment.

http://www.iltalehti.fi/talviurheilu/2016072021935517_tl.shtml
Seppälä states that certain studies shows that long term use of salbutamol can be used to gain 10-20 % effect in certain muscle groups. A significant effect for top athletes.
 
Apr 7, 2015
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I think the big issue here is how, according to somebody in the Norwegian camp, FIS wants to keep these cases from the public. Imagine how many more cases there could be. Would it not be in the interest of the athletes to make these cases public? As it is, everyone will fall under suspicion.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:

Discgear said:
Discgear said:
Good questions. In Sweden all the expertis and XC-community have showed support for Sundby. However in Finland, the medical director of Anti-Doping Committee ADT, Timo Seppälä has raised some severe questions. http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001223864.html
First he states that this violation had been punished in Finland and thinks it is national interests behind the very short and mild punishment. Normally MJS would have been expelled 4 years from competition.
He also says that the very high concentrations of salbutamol in MJS urin has anabolic effects.

Some more mindboggling information from Seppälä:

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/a1468984770191
Sundby took on instructions from team doctor three portions of 5 000 micro gram per day. Wada guidlines are 1 600 micro gram.

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/hiihtolajit...undbysta-vain-akuutteihin-kohtauksiin/5997854
Nebulizer should only be used in emergency cases with asthma. Sundby have been using Nebulizer in daily treatment.

http://www.iltalehti.fi/talviurheilu/2016072021935517_tl.shtml
Seppälä states that certain studies shows that long term use of salbutamol can be used to gain 10-20 % effect in certain muscle groups. A significant effect for top athletes.


This needs to be shared! The Norwegians have tried desperately hard to make Sundby a victim of a technicality or unclear rules/bureaucratic issue. It's obvious that he, his doctors and the norwegian federation knew what they were doing and Norwegian-dominated FIS tried to clear Sundby of any wrongdoing. That's probably why it took a year and half for this to be 'resolved.' The biggest issue to me is how they kept this quiet for that long. FIS is the most at fault here, in my opinion, they are supposed to follow clear WADA guidelines and equally set these rules to everyone, yet they didn't. They knew Sundby, his doctors and the national team went well over the prescribed limit to gain the most advantage they could. Colluding to keep this a secret and let Sundby, the top WC skier over the past three seasons doesn't look very good for FIS. Then again, there are plenty of Norwegians in FIS, including the head honcho-Ulvang, who did their best to clear Sundby and keep this quiet.

Some say that Sundby got a harsh sentence, with the DQ of his TDS win, several other races and forfeiting the WC title that season, but he was ok'd to ski for two whole seasons, despite the anti-doping infringement, and gets to keep everything from last year, even though he was still doing what the doctors told him. I think he got off easy. A two month ban, during the summer months, does nothing. Yes, you take away a TDS title, a few other results, the overall WC and prize money, but aren't most sanctions at least 2 years in length nowadays? By what you shared, it seems highly likely that this was a blatant, calculated effort by all parties involved.
 
Apr 7, 2015
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Regarding the use of asthma medication by professional athletes I think the following two points is valuable as a guide:

1. Athletes are willing to try everything
2. They only keep what works
 
Feb 15, 2015
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BullsFan22 said:
Yes, you take away a TDS title, a few other results, the overall WC and prize money
Norwegian Ski Federation pays him back the prize money he loses because they mean it's their fault. Quite in contrast to when they didn't want to lift a finger for Anders Aukland after the Blodracet docu. Reason: They didn't want to legitimate the documentary by commenting it. Better stay in the inner circle.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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kosmonaut said:
BullsFan22 said:
Yes, you take away a TDS title, a few other results, the overall WC and prize money
Norwegian Ski Federation pays him back the prize money he loses because they mean it's their fault. Quite in contrast to when they didn't want to lift a finger for Anders Aukland after the Blodracet docu. Reason: They didn't want to legitimate the documentary by commenting it. Better stay in the inner circle.


I do remember Hallen, one of the team doctors, along with Roste (current head of the Norwegian XC) going on NRK and explaining the situation. I do remember that while they didn't openly say Aukland doped, they did say the rules were clear and he, in one way or another broke them, but it was a very brief episode and nothing really came out of it. I think it resulted in them mentioning that Aukland took too much caffeine or whatever it was. Easy way out, look for something random to cover the actual issue.

More on the documentary: I thought it was well done, far more pragmatic and insightful then the Seppelt documentary. Unfortunately nobody from Fauner, or Jevne or anyone else wanted to say too much. They just denied, denied, denied. They didn't quack like the Stepanov's did. Though the Swedish documentary wasn't politically motivated. It was simply journalists investigating a shady time in cross country skiing. They mentioned that one race in 1997, every single skier in the top 30 had high blood values.

The mainstream media did very little to expand on this. Certainly not like it has done against the Russians the last couple years. The FIS heads interviewed in that SVT documentary seemed fair and honest when confronted with the high blood values. Nothing done. No investigation, no further leaks, no testimonies...No Beckie Scott calling for 'clean sport,' and changing WADA's policies and 'protecting clean athletes.' Nothing.

No investigation, at least that the public knows, was ever done on Ferrari's and Conconi's involvement with the Italians and him essentially bringing EPO to nordic skiing in the 1980's. Rumor has it, he was also involved with Daehlie.
 
Feb 15, 2015
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BullsFan22 said:
kosmonaut said:
BullsFan22 said:
Yes, you take away a TDS title, a few other results, the overall WC and prize money
Norwegian Ski Federation pays him back the prize money he loses because they mean it's their fault. Quite in contrast to when they didn't want to lift a finger for Anders Aukland after the Blodracet docu. Reason: They didn't want to legitimate the documentary by commenting it. Better stay in the inner circle.


I do remember Hallen, one of the team doctors, along with Roste (current head of the Norwegian XC) going on NRK and explaining the situation. I do remember that while they didn't openly say Aukland doped, they did say the rules were clear and he, in one way or another broke them, but it was a very brief episode and nothing really came out of it. I think it resulted in them mentioning that Aukland took too much caffeine or whatever it was. Easy way out, look for something random to cover the actual issue.

More on the documentary: I thought it was well done, far more pragmatic and insightful then the Seppelt documentary. Unfortunately nobody from Fauner, or Jevne or anyone else wanted to say too much. They just denied, denied, denied. They didn't quack like the Stepanov's did. Though the Swedish documentary wasn't politically motivated. It was simply journalists investigating a shady time in cross country skiing. They mentioned that one race in 1997, every single skier in the top 30 had high blood values.

The mainstream media did very little to expand on this. Certainly not like it has done against the Russians the last couple years. The FIS heads interviewed in that SVT documentary seemed fair and honest when confronted with the high blood values. Nothing done. No investigation, no further leaks, no testimonies...No Beckie Scott calling for 'clean sport,' and changing WADA's policies and 'protecting clean athletes.' Nothing.

No investigation, at least that the public knows, was ever done on Ferrari's and Conconi's involvement with the Italians and him essentially bringing EPO to nordic skiing in the 1980's. Rumor has it, he was also involved with Daehlie.
I was left with the exact same feelings as you after that documentary. It was a first class example of how to make something go away. I guess what they lacked was an athlete willing to speak. Worst thing was the debate after Blodracet 1 in Swedish TV. Then NSF actually sent someone, Otto Ulseth, who went completely crazy. Throwing punches at everyon – it was a freakshow. It was on YouTube until this winter, but has now been taken down. Wonder why. It had been there for a long time and was removed after I tweeted a throwback to it (https://twitter.com/marginalveins/status/676171989644664832)

Anyway. I stumbled over this study on Salbutamol: https://t.co/FlpcS5kft3

Not quite sure if this contradicts what were said yesterday. I have to look more into it later.

As such, athletes might unfairly benefit from salbutamol, even when used within the current limits on the list of prohibited substances.
 
Feb 25, 2014
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Oude Geuze said:
At first I was really excited by the possibility of Sunday actually being caught (I really want him out of the WC). When I saw what this stuff was about though I merely shrugged, salbutamol? Really? Beta 2 agonists? Lol ok, half the field uses this medication.

There's a lot of misconception regarding asthma medication. Your lungs are NEVER the limiting factor to aerobic performance. You can increase ventilation to about 11 times the baseline, while heart liters per minute can only increase about 5 times baseline. So if you have asthma, asthma medication is actually working, you bronchioles dilate to a normal physiological level (or more likely, somewhat less due to chronic inflammatory change and thickening of the interstitial tissue and smooth muscle hypertrophy) and obstructive symptoms decrease. If you do not have asthma, no amount of asthma medication will help you perform better, as your bronchioles are already performing well. Of course at certain levels, there might be systemic effects, but at the hospital where I work, we often give 5mg salbutamol in a nebulizer for inhalation in acute asthma or COPD, and I have not seen systemic effects like increased heart rate or restlessness etc.

Thanks for the above info, but I don't think anyone else is interested in the opinion of someone with actual medical expertise. It just gets in the way of the "Sundby is a doper narrative". The guy is so arrogant and cocky, you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just a punch in the face.
 
Apr 7, 2015
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Gracey said:
Oude Geuze said:
At first I was really excited by the possibility of Sunday actually being caught (I really want him out of the WC). When I saw what this stuff was about though I merely shrugged, salbutamol? Really? Beta 2 agonists? Lol ok, half the field uses this medication.

There's a lot of misconception regarding asthma medication. Your lungs are NEVER the limiting factor to aerobic performance. You can increase ventilation to about 11 times the baseline, while heart liters per minute can only increase about 5 times baseline. So if you have asthma, asthma medication is actually working, you bronchioles dilate to a normal physiological level (or more likely, somewhat less due to chronic inflammatory change and thickening of the interstitial tissue and smooth muscle hypertrophy) and obstructive symptoms decrease. If you do not have asthma, no amount of asthma medication will help you perform better, as your bronchioles are already performing well. Of course at certain levels, there might be systemic effects, but at the hospital where I work, we often give 5mg salbutamol in a nebulizer for inhalation in acute asthma or COPD, and I have not seen systemic effects like increased heart rate or restlessness etc.

Thanks for the above info, but I don't think anyone else is interested in the opinion of someone with actual medical expertise. It just gets in the way of the "Sundby is a doper narrative". The guy is so arrogant and cocky, you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just a punch in the face.
To be fair, this is a crack in the dam, which is what people are happy about. The seriousness of the infraction is besides the point.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Lyon said:
Gracey said:
Oude Geuze said:
At first I was really excited by the possibility of Sunday actually being caught (I really want him out of the WC). When I saw what this stuff was about though I merely shrugged, salbutamol? Really? Beta 2 agonists? Lol ok, half the field uses this medication.

There's a lot of misconception regarding asthma medication. Your lungs are NEVER the limiting factor to aerobic performance. You can increase ventilation to about 11 times the baseline, while heart liters per minute can only increase about 5 times baseline. So if you have asthma, asthma medication is actually working, you bronchioles dilate to a normal physiological level (or more likely, somewhat less due to chronic inflammatory change and thickening of the interstitial tissue and smooth muscle hypertrophy) and obstructive symptoms decrease. If you do not have asthma, no amount of asthma medication will help you perform better, as your bronchioles are already performing well. Of course at certain levels, there might be systemic effects, but at the hospital where I work, we often give 5mg salbutamol in a nebulizer for inhalation in acute asthma or COPD, and I have not seen systemic effects like increased heart rate or restlessness etc.

Thanks for the above info, but I don't think anyone else is interested in the opinion of someone with actual medical expertise. It just gets in the way of the "Sundby is a doper narrative". The guy is so arrogant and cocky, you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just a punch in the face.
To be fair, this is a crack in the dam, which is what people are happy about. The seriousness of the infraction is besides the point.

Exactly. Though I too, think Sundby is arrogant and this needed to shut him up. Having said that, it appears it hasn't, as he's already said he's looking forward to the season and getting that elusive gold at the World Championships. If he gets busted again for a similar infraction (or any other, for that matter) during the season, what should happen to him? Ban him for 2 years? 4 years? More? Less?
 
Jan 3, 2016
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Gracey said:
Oude Geuze said:
At first I was really excited by the possibility of Sunday actually being caught (I really want him out of the WC). When I saw what this stuff was about though I merely shrugged, salbutamol? Really? Beta 2 agonists? Lol ok, half the field uses this medication.

There's a lot of misconception regarding asthma medication. Your lungs are NEVER the limiting factor to aerobic performance. You can increase ventilation to about 11 times the baseline, while heart liters per minute can only increase about 5 times baseline. So if you have asthma, asthma medication is actually working, you bronchioles dilate to a normal physiological level (or more likely, somewhat less due to chronic inflammatory change and thickening of the interstitial tissue and smooth muscle hypertrophy) and obstructive symptoms decrease. If you do not have asthma, no amount of asthma medication will help you perform better, as your bronchioles are already performing well. Of course at certain levels, there might be systemic effects, but at the hospital where I work, we often give 5mg salbutamol in a nebulizer for inhalation in acute asthma or COPD, and I have not seen systemic effects like increased heart rate or restlessness etc.

Thanks for the above info, but I don't think anyone else is interested in the opinion of someone with actual medical expertise. It just gets in the way of the "Sundby is a doper narrative". The guy is so arrogant and cocky, you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just a punch in the face.

Yes, because let's face it professional sport needs to be given all the benefit of the doubt it can get if it's retain any legitimacy at all.

Walks like a duck, quacks like an (asthmatic) duck, and completes a tour of the duck pond faster than other ducks with, uh, somewhat avant garde medical support, but the problem must surely lie in what the actual definition of a duck is. Of course. :rolleyes:
 
Jun 22, 2010
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In a sadist sort of way, I hope Sundby dominates this coming season (again), wins a few medals in Lahti.

Then, some time after the season, we hear he failed multiple tests.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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The press conference

Let’s analyze how Johnsrud Sundby and the Norwegian Ski Federation handled the press-conference, smoke-screens and outright lies. As a base I will use the English document they handed out to the press describing the “case”,
http://www.skiforbundet.no/Images/The%20Case%20-%20Engelsk%20versjon%20av%20Dette%20er%20saken[4].pdf
and the press-release, http://www.skiforbundet.no/Images/1.2%20Pressrelease%20%28english%29.pdf plus some comments in the conference.

Martin Johnsrud Sundby has used the necessary and legal anti-asthmatic medicine Ventoline (salbutamol) in permitted doses.
Lie: The permitted dose according to WADA regulations is 1600 mg/day. MJS used 15000 mg in a time-span of 5,5 hours just before a race.

From the pressrelease:
The inhalation was administered by a nebulizer, where studies show that approximately 10 percent of the dose installed in the device, actually is inhaled and reaches the body.
This is actually not true and a part of the smokescreen. As an example, http://patient.info/doctor/nebulisers-in-general-practice states that many nebulizers are highly inefficient and distributes down to ten percent of the dose.
Firstly, I doubt that MJS and the NSF medical team are using the most ineffective nebulizers available.
Secondly the systemic effects of Salbutamol use are well-known.
Salazar and his highly successful Nike Oregon project with runners like Mo Farah and Galen Rupp have been using asthma-medication extensively. Following is a testimony from runner Lauren Fleshman https://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance:
“He said to breathe it in, hold it, and then breathe it out your nose slowly, because then you expose the glucocorticosteroid to the nasal passages as well, making sure that every single passage the air could come down is maximally opened"
At least we could suspect that this information is well-known for MJS and his team doctor. Nebulizer is in this sense a much better way to expose yourself systemically with Salbutamol doses than a metered-dose inhaler.

In the Norwegian press-release (not the English) NSF ski president Erik Røste states that Martin has not achieved any competitive advantages through his use of Ventoline.
This is bold (false) statement considering following comments from Fleshman and the instructions from Salazar when she got permission to use asthma medication:
“After I got the medication, Alberto explained ‘this is going to be great for you; so many athletes once they got on this, did so much better than they’d ever done before’."
“He described the ways that could happen, that there’s a glucocorticosteroid in Advair and the possibility some of that could get systemically into your body and give you an advantage, and you can legally take it because you have asthma."
“Alberto encouraged me to push to be on the highest dose of it year round, which was something different than what the doctor had said."

It is also a bold statement considering an article published in Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter as early as 1993, http://www.dn.se/arkiv/sport/astmam...-ny-undersokning-baddar-for-het-dopingdebatt/:
"New research shows that Salbutamol (chemical name on Ventoline) in tablet-form, in surprisingly short time, increases muscle strength considerably on young men".

MD Torbjörn Conradsson on Draco, the company who is marketing Bricanyl: "It’s hard to understand that one [tablets] is forbidden and the other [spray] is allowed. If you’re using spray a number of times it gives a similar effect as the tablets. If you want to dope with inhalator, you can".

Bertil Nyborg expert on Glaxo the company who is marketing Ventoline: "We have been doing testing that shows it has a performance-enhancing effect also on healthy people"

You could accuse Norwegian Ski Federation and Johnsrud Sundby of many things. Naivity is not one of them. They are in the fore-front of athletic research. Their explanations are actually intellectually insulting.

Finally CAS asked the NSF to answer the following questions:
1. A comprehensive list of all the medication (including dose and mode of
administration) taken by the Athlete before commencing the course of nebulized
salbutamol further to the call with Dr. Knut Gabrielsen on 7 December 2014.
2. A comprehensive list of all medication (including dose and mode of
administration) taken by the athlete from the commencement of the course of
nebulized salbutamol until 8 January 2015.
3. The prescription(s)1
in respect of the salbutamol taken by nebulization in
December 2014 and January 2015.
4. The name of the pharmacy where the salbutamol was purchased.
5. Proof of purchase of the salbutamol (e.g. sale receipt).
6. The precise name and model of the nebulisation equipment used.
7. The name of the outlet or hospital where the nebulization equipment was
purchased or sourced (as the case may be).
8. Proof of purchase (or sourcing) of the nebulization equipment.
9. Records of delivery of the salbutamol and the nebulization equipment to the
Athlete (e.g. courier receipts).
10. Contemporaneous evidence that the Athlete and/or his medical team analyzed
in advance whether the nebulization of 15,000 micrograms of salbutamol would
come within the permitted use of salbutamol on the Prohibited List.

Norwegian Ski Federation and Martin Johnsrud Sundby refused, but said they if need be, to make oral
submissions.
Please observe that this is Norway refusing to help investigate doping and not Russia!
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Re: The press conference

Discgear said:
Let’s analyze how Johnsrud Sundby and the Norwegian Ski Federation handled the press-conference, smoke-screens and outright lies. As a base I will use the English document they handed out to the press describing the “case”,
http://www.skiforbundet.no/Images/The%20Case%20-%20Engelsk%20versjon%20av%20Dette%20er%20saken[4].pdf
and the press-release, http://www.skiforbundet.no/Images/1.2%20Pressrelease%20%28english%29.pdf plus some comments in the conference.

Martin Johnsrud Sundby has used the necessary and legal anti-asthmatic medicine Ventoline (salbutamol) in permitted doses.
Lie: The permitted dose according to WADA regulations is 1600 mg/day. MJS used 15000 mg in a time-span of 5,5 hours just before a race.

From the pressrelease:
The inhalation was administered by a nebulizer, where studies show that approximately 10 percent of the dose installed in the device, actually is inhaled and reaches the body.
This is actually not true and a part of the smokescreen. As an example, http://patient.info/doctor/nebulisers-in-general-practice states that many nebulizers are highly inefficient and distributes down to ten percent of the dose.
Firstly, I doubt that MJS and the NSF medical team are using the most ineffective nebulizers available.
Secondly the systemic effects of Salbutamol use are well-known.
Salazar and his highly successful Nike Oregon project with runners like Mo Farah and Galen Rupp have been using asthma-medication extensively. Following is a testimony from runner Lauren Fleshman https://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance:
“He said to breathe it in, hold it, and then breathe it out your nose slowly, because then you expose the glucocorticosteroid to the nasal passages as well, making sure that every single passage the air could come down is maximally opened"
At least we could suspect that this information is well-known for MJS and his team doctor. Nebulizer is in this sense a much better way to expose yourself systemically with Salbutamol doses than a metered-dose inhaler.

In the Norwegian press-release (not the English) NSF ski president Erik Røste states that Martin has not achieved any competitive advantages through his use of Ventoline.
This is bold (false) statement considering following comments from Fleshman and the instructions from Salazar when she got permission to use asthma medication:
“After I got the medication, Alberto explained ‘this is going to be great for you; so many athletes once they got on this, did so much better than they’d ever done before’."
“He described the ways that could happen, that there’s a glucocorticosteroid in Advair and the possibility some of that could get systemically into your body and give you an advantage, and you can legally take it because you have asthma."
“Alberto encouraged me to push to be on the highest dose of it year round, which was something different than what the doctor had said."

It is also a bold statement considering an article published in Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter as early as 1993, http://www.dn.se/arkiv/sport/astmam...-ny-undersokning-baddar-for-het-dopingdebatt/:
"New research shows that Salbutamol (chemical name on Ventoline) in tablet-form, in surprisingly short time, increases muscle strength considerably on young men".

MD Torbjörn Conradsson on Draco, the company who is marketing Bricanyl: "It’s hard to understand that one [tablets] is forbidden and the other [spray] is allowed. If you’re using spray a number of times it gives a similar effect as the tablets. If you want to dope with inhalator, you can".

Bertil Nyborg expert on Glaxo the company who is marketing Ventoline: "We have been doing testing that shows it has a performance-enhancing effect also on healthy people"

You could accuse Norwegian Ski Federation and Johnsrud Sundby of many things. Naivity is not one of them. They are in the fore-front of athletic research. Their explanations are actually intellectually insulting.

Finally CAS asked the NSF to answer the following questions:
1. A comprehensive list of all the medication (including dose and mode of
administration) taken by the Athlete before commencing the course of nebulized
salbutamol further to the call with Dr. Knut Gabrielsen on 7 December 2014.
2. A comprehensive list of all medication (including dose and mode of
administration) taken by the athlete from the commencement of the course of
nebulized salbutamol until 8 January 2015.
3. The prescription(s)1
in respect of the salbutamol taken by nebulization in
December 2014 and January 2015.
4. The name of the pharmacy where the salbutamol was purchased.
5. Proof of purchase of the salbutamol (e.g. sale receipt).
6. The precise name and model of the nebulisation equipment used.
7. The name of the outlet or hospital where the nebulization equipment was
purchased or sourced (as the case may be).
8. Proof of purchase (or sourcing) of the nebulization equipment.
9. Records of delivery of the salbutamol and the nebulization equipment to the
Athlete (e.g. courier receipts).
10. Contemporaneous evidence that the Athlete and/or his medical team analyzed
in advance whether the nebulization of 15,000 micrograms of salbutamol would
come within the permitted use of salbutamol on the Prohibited List.

Norwegian Ski Federation and Martin Johnsrud Sundby refused, but said they if need be, to make oral
submissions.
Please observe that this is Norway refusing to help investigate doping and not Russia!

Nice! Some great information there. Something that could expose the Norwegian Federation big time, not just Sundby. I am 100% certain they've done this with other skiers with asthma, namely Bjoergen. I know we've discussed the fact that the women's field is much more shallow and the top few athletes are in plenty of races significantly better than the rest, but it doesn't change the fact that there is something fishy going on. Bjoergen, comparing to her levels in 2002/2003-2006 was below par from the end of the 2006 season to the beginning of the 2009/2010 Olympic season. She wasn't winning too many races and if memory serves me right, she didn't win any individual medals at the 2007 world's or 2009 world's. Then, as if the previous three seasons hadn't happened, she rebounds, and gets 2 individual golds, and one relay gold in Vancouver, plus a silver behind Kowalzcyk in the 30km in Vancouver. She more or less dominated the next few seasons and shared some spoils with Kowalzcyk and then Johaug really came to life with the 30km dominance in 2011 (suspicious much) Oslo, and pretty much all the distance races in Val di Fiemme in 2013. Long story short, if there is a way to get the mainstream media to report on this, and actually dig a little deeper, instead of taking everything that the Norwegian Press Releases say as gospel, then we'll have something, but seeing that nobody or almost nobody will, as this doesn't involve any Russian, we might never get the full scale manipulation.

Specifically on Sundby, if that's correct, then he basically took 10 times (!!!) as much meds as was the WADA limit??? And if the salbutamol benefits are entirely correct in terms of Sundby, then that is more than just gaining an advantage, that's just full blown blatant doping there, Muehlegg style. The fact that he was busted, twice, within a few weeks, probably packing himself for the tour de ski that year, a far more dominant performance than 2014, I think, and that FIS let him ski the entire tour, the entire season, and let him win all those titles (thankfully none in Falun) AND did nothing until it had to come out (pressured from WADA), 1 1/2 year later?? FIS needs to be penalized as well, it seems! He also got to race a full last season as well. The two month summer ban and the taking away of those race wins, the TDS title, the overall WC title and prize money is good, but if they really wanted to throw the book at him, they should have DQ'd everything from December 2014 until the end of this past season AND given him a two year ban, the general sanction for a first time offender. Harsh? Some may argue, but many are calling for Legkov's head in the mainstream media, and he, to my knowledge has never had suspicious tests, elevated blood values, special TUE's or special treatment from CAS or FIS. I mean, he never even had that great of support from his own federation, even after winning two medals in Sochi! Hence, he's lived and trained outside of Russia since 2010. Is he not a doper? I can't say 100% that he isn't, but despite all the quacking in the press the past few months, I hold him to be less suspicious than Sundby. FIS would much rather cover up for a Norwegian/Norwegian Federation than for a Russian/Russian Federation. No question about that. They would cover for the Norwegians more than anyone, even Swedes or French or Italian and perhaps even Germans, even though FIS's and FIS Cross Country's biggest sponsors have been German for quite a few years.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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Disc Gear - very good.

The media handling of this has been a nonsense. One example that stuck out particularly in the press release was:

"The inhalation was administered by a nebulizer, where studies show that approximately 10 per cent of the dose installed in the device, actually is inhaled and reaches the body."

What studies? One could go on.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Blaaswix said:
Aftenposten has an article, behind a paywall unfortunately, but with the headline "69% of Norwegian olympic cross country medal have been won by skiers with asthma"http://www.aftenposten.no/100Sport/...renn-er-tatt-av-lopere-med-astma-788032_1.snd

Ho hum.

Quite remarkable, isn't it? This article is open http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/lan...tatt-av-loepere-med-astma-medisin/a/23747305/

And it's actually probably much worse than 69% of the medalists. They've only counted the skiers who has admitted they are medicating agianst asthma. A lot of the remaing medalists have in different interviews gone public with asthma problems but never admitting using medication. They are not counted. Another interesting thing in the article is the information around hepathlonist Ida Marcusson. She and her trainer went public with criticism when she was screened for asthma by Olympiatoppen in 2010 without having any problems whatsoever. She felt there was an urge from Olympiatoppen for her to show signs of asthma and thus being able to use asthma medication.
 
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I'm not sure if this is the best thread for it but can anyone address the "Asthma medication only makes your lungs work normally, it will do nothing if you are not asthmatic." argument that is routinely floated? On the one hand, that argument sort of makes sense to me. On the other, non-asthmatic elites wouldn't be using this stuff if it didn't help.