Evans, to dispel a few myths

[Francois the Postman]

He is an analyst of his own performances (along with his respectable coach Aldo Sassi) and they breakdown his performances into minor things. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that multiple minor set backs can have drastic results on a GC shot. As such, he loses 3 GTs in 3 years, all by less than 2min, with two tour losses by under a minute - that is almost unheard of, that a rider can lose two consecutive tours both in under a minute.

Minor setbacks are not unique to Cadel. But some actually are able to win GTs despite them. They either got themselves in a position that they could afford it, or they had that little bit extra to claw back their losses.

As for 2009, you say he is whinging and making excuses. And i'll tell you again, if you watched the vuelta, you would have seen he was good enough. Losing 1:20 from a flat, and 10sec for a bottle, and ultimately losing the vuelta by 1:30 suggests to me that his excuses have some actual fact involved, and you are ignoring this. The 'excuses' are reasons for why he believes he lost the vuelta, and i know you know that he could have won that vuelta if the bike change scenario never occurred.

As for the tour, do you really think a diesel engine like Cadels is going to makeup the 3 minutes lost in a TDF TTT? NO... becoz he relies on being up the front from day one. After the verbier stage, he was significantly ahead of LA and AS on GC IF YOU SUBTRACT THE TTT TIMES. So after 15 stages, he was probably the 3rd best rider, IMO. So of course the TTT is an valid excuse, because they lost 3 minutes!!!

That sort of creative accounting always assumes that everything else would remain equal. Which wouldn't be the case.

If...if...if.... then maybe direct challengers would have attacked him harder, or a different sort of pressure would have been applied on his presence in groups. If Gesink and Mosquera hadn't hit the tarmac, maybe the Vuelta would have a different end-dynamic too.

No-one seems to be arguing that Cadel is a bad rider, far from it. But the perception that his mishaps apparently stand in the way of victories, when others at the sharp end of things can, and have, overcome theirs, seems to be justified. And then we're back to that pesky "little bit extra".

 

[Anonymous]

That sort of creative accounting always assumes that everything else would remain equal. Which wouldn't be the case.

Whilst I agree that sometimes creative accounting makes big assumptions, in this case I believe I am spot on. The reason is because between the TTT and stage 15 to verbier, nothing happened, and nothing could of happened.

The Arcalis stage was all but neutralised due to wind, and then we had a week of flats!.. The only other potential decisive stages were the one haussler won (st. 13) but that was also neutralised due to the rain, so in fact, I believe my creative accounting did actually prove a point that before Verbier Cadel was better than LA and AS if you subtract the TTT, which reaffirms what I was saying that Cadel saying the Tour went downhill after the TTT is not an excuse, it's a fact.

My point still stands, that the people that call Cadel a whinger have very selective hearing, becoz all he does is respond to the interviewers questions, and the question is usually along the lines of 'what happened?'... as such he answers by describing crashes in 2008, TTTs in 2009 and punctures in 2009, all of which are valid reasons and for some strange reason are percieved as whinging. In part I blame the newsreporters for this perception because they are the one's that write the article, and they only included the negative stuff. In TV interviews on australian television he is very very positive and the interviewers ask his positive questions and dont just report the negative answers. The guy, IMO, is deeply misunderstood and heavily misrepresented by the cycling media and selective fans alike.

 

[Galic Ho]

fyi - after the 2008 tour final TT when he couldn't beat sastre, he said he wasn't good enough on the day. when an interviewer asks why he is not good enough on that day he explains the crash and how it sapped him of the power required to be up there in that TT (off the top of my head, he was 1minute down on VDV in that TT, and he stated, that normally in any given TT he is between Canc and VDV)

I remember watching that stage and only about 75% through did I realise it was over. At the time I thought if he put in Vandevelde's time of 1'01" behind Schumacher he would have been almost in yellow. Vandevelde's time would have had him a second behind Sastre.

People seem to have selective hearing when it comes to cadel.

No, I listen. He isn't always whinging. But why all the talk about Silence now? sounds a lot like whinging, or providing an excuse to justify leaving and why people should believe in him and BMC. Just race Evans. Just race. Thats enough. Perhaps you forgot the complaining after stage 9 ot this years tour. He really got worked up.

He is an analyst of his own performances (along with his respectable coach Aldo Sassi) and they breakdown his performances into minor things.

Anyone involved in team Basso is not respectable. Suspicious is the first thought.

As for 2009, you say he is whinging and making excuses. And i'll tell you again, if you watched the vuelta, you would have seen he was good enough. Losing 1:20 from a flat, and 10sec for a bottle, and ultimately losing the vuelta by 1:30 suggests to me that his excuses have some actual fact involved, and you are ignoring this. The 'excuses' are reasons for why he believes he lost the vuelta, and i know you know that he could have won that vuelta if the bike change scenario never occurred.

I did and picked first and second places. My pick for third came fourth. Angliru answered the tyre issue earlier on in the week. He said he'd reviewed the footage and Cadel did not fix his chain and gears to allow a quick change. The time Cadel lost is relevant only for the stage in which he lost it. Yes he'd have been closer on GC, but who is to say that Valverde would not have attacked more near the end? He didn't need to. The 1'30 he lost is relevant and reliable only for the clock and GC on stage 13 of the Vuelta and not the final clock and GC on stage 21.

As for the tour, do you really think a diesel engine like Cadels is going to makeup the 3 minutes lost in a TDF TTT? NO... becoz he relies on being up the front from day one. After the verbier stage, he was significantly ahead of LA and AS on GC IF YOU SUBTRACT THE TTT TIMES. So after 15 stages, he was probably the 3rd best rider, IMO. So of course the TTT is an valid excuse, because they lost 3 minutes!!!

No. The theme about the TTT was that because Silence risked loosing tons of time and given Cadel starts strongly on GC the team needed to be prepared. They weren't. TTT is a valid excuse, but who is the blame portioned to? You'll be aware from discussion the opinions on why Silence weren't prepared differ. I say the team management is mostly to blame, but Cadel should have done more to get the team organised earlier. His GC, his lost time.

Jens Voight always said, that if you roll up to the start line, and you think you will lose, race over, you've already lost. There is always a small probabillity that you can win, and it's more respectable to say, I can win, i'm good enough, and then lose, as oppose to rolling up to the start line with a negative attitude...

Your focus at the start of a new endaevour is crucial to its success. This is why I was questioning the TTT. How serious were the team? As I explained all the top 5 were very well drilled. They'd trained on the course and were ready. Silence clearly were not. They were nervous, under prepared and unfocused. A bad combination. In my opinion, what you wrote, reveals the collective team attitude, a negative spirit.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Whilst I agree that sometimes creative accounting makes big assumptions, in this case I believe I am spot on. The reason is because between the TTT and stage 15 to verbier, nothing happened, and nothing could of happened.

The Arcalis stage was all but neutralised due to wind, and then we had a week of flats!.. The only other potential decisive stages were the one haussler won (st. 13) but that was also neutralised due to the rain, so in fact, I believe my creative accounting did actually prove a point that before Verbier Cadel was better than LA and AS if you subtract the TTT, which reaffirms what I was saying that Cadel saying the Tour went downhill after the TTT is not an excuse, it's a fact.

So either you are arguing that, if we ignore Contador, without the TTT, we simply had a race in which all remained fairly equal, in which case there is no real significant point that applies to Cadel alone. And he was caught with his trousers down on the first "real day" of the TdF.

Or you are arguing that there is something really significant about being a few seconds up on other riders at stage 15 in a 3-week race where "nothing has happened" yet, and the promised venom was kept bottled until the end.

Ignoring that once we left Verbier, he lost 7+ mins the next day (and 6 on LA, 5 on AS), making the whole TTT a mute point anyway.

I get the accounting, I don't get what the real point is. He lost time, after which he didn't close the gap, he didn't take the race by the scruff of the neck, and didn't made his mark (which wouldn't have happened before stage 16 anyway then).

I understand he races to be close to the front if not at the front. And his strength is that he is usually consistent doing that, and that the TTT torpedoed "something". But certainly not his chances to win that one, as he had no hope in hell of winning it, with or without TTT.

"Just" being a good diesel isn't enough. And if it hadn't all become about 3rd place, AC and AS would have put some more clean air between them and "also rans".

My point still stands, that the people that call Cadel a whinger have very selective hearing,[/qoute]

I won't respond to that, as that is not my issue with Cadel as a rider. Where others have raised their game and made their chances and luck, GT Cadel seems to rely reliably on getting damn close to the front, as if that is a winning strategy all in itself, but appears to lack (so far) that extra spark that you need to nail it, ans thus, inevitably, falls victim to the same bumps in the road that other contenders also need to overcome. But winners do.

I just don't have much time for those "if this one variable had been different then..." lines of thinking. As you can do that for a 1000 other factors too, all which influence the entire narrative of how the TdF plays out from day to day. What if Gesink hadn't crashed out? What if it wasn't for that rainy day? What if Frank had had a good day on Ventoux and was able to attack LA? What would have happened to Cadel there if he was still in contact with them at that point? Etc etc.

My point was that, for some reason, I don't appear to lose many classic GT race memories if I erase Cadel's name from my data bank. For a supposed (and genuine) GT contender, that ain't a good thing. And there are many lesser riders about whom I can't say the same thing. I hope it changes next year. I don't have high hopes.

 

[auscyclefan94]

So if he makes the big attack and then gets caught and goes backwards, he will be further back than just staying with the main guys. The tour and any other GT is NOT about gaining time but not losing time. lets say evans got the time back in the itt in 08, people then would of said it wasn't a mistake to not chase down Carlos Sastre.

 

[Francois the Postman]

So if he makes the big attack and then gets caught and goes backwards, he will be further back than just staying with the main guys. The tour and any other GT is NOT about gaining time but not losing time. lets say evans got the time back in the itt in 08, people then would of said it wasn't a mistake to not chase down Carlos Sastre.

(bolding mine)

No, the Tour is about not losing time and gaining (enough) time on your competitors when you can/must. Seems that for Cadel that last bit just hasn't been an option, which is why I don't rate him the way you do. If you think that the Tour is only about not losing time, I can see why you rate Cadel highly. That bit he is pretty decent at. But the ones that are equally able to limit their losses, and have that little extra and can attack and stamp their mark on a Tour, tend to win 'em too, and the ones that judge well how much of an attack is needed to seal the deal even more so.

If it was all about not losing time, Cadel would have won a GT by now. But that attitude, if that is is entire attitude, isn't working out for him so far.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Cadel about his past tdf's

Some interesting bits are at 3mins onwards. The dislikers or CE may learn something

 

[blackcat]

So if he makes the big attack and then gets caught and goes backwards, he will be further back than just staying with the main guys. The tour and any other GT is NOT about gaining time but not losing time. lets say evans got the time back in the itt in 08, people then would of said it wasn't a mistake to not chase down Carlos Sastre.

AusCycle, I dont think Evans and his team, ever really believed he could win the Tour, even at his peak, because then they would have done everything, to the extent even bringing in a new sponsor for a few million, to finance the tilt.

I do not think you can win the Tour without the euphemistic "medical program". The evidence is clear everyone else has had a comprehensive program in GTs, and there was even some noise about Evans, but no clear trail, it was disputed, and no real evidence. So, this is up in the air about Evans, that part of his result. And, you cannot separate it, or stick posts in another forum, they are fundamental inputs in the performance function of the sport.

Now if the team believed in Evans, and he believed in himself, he would have got the right team. If not the guys on medical programs who could not perform if on bread and water, Kohl, Dekker, Popo, Horner, because, those guys are freekin' talented riders when they get those inputs.

But Evans would have said, "stock the team with talent, I want these riders..."

guys, prior to 2008, like Lovqvist, Rogers, Larsson. One of those guys might be a bread and water rider, TL, may. Trying to find 8 domestiques like that, impossible imo.

So, lets say you stock the team with such talent. Hoste and Vansummeren are about the only guys I could consent to taking from Belgium. And they would need to really work on their chrono with a specific theshold and zone for the TTT. Because it was inevitable the TTT would return.

So like the USPS squads of the past, apart from the Spaniards, they were stocked with riders who could bust out a chrono too.

This team could win the Tour.

Evans
Kohl
Rogers
Dekker
Popo
Lovqvist
Horner
Larsson
Vansummeren
Hoste

one extra would be a reserve. Looking at that list, it probably would have required Lotto to bring an extra 2 million euro to the table, so add that to their budget.

That is equivalent to Saxo from last year. 2008 Saxo.

So, if Coucke and Sergeant say "oh Cadel, sorry, we don't have the budget", Cadel says "BS, get your business strategy aligned to your cycling strategy, you get in a new manager who can find the commercial support, I will find a co-sponsor from Australia who can buy these riders for me"...

AusCycle, you need to get your freekin head out of the ground. Evans was never proactive. He never took control. He never led the team. Why was the TTT training and that planning done in the Spring? Huh, that should have been planned for, on the day after the route was announced. That is October 2008. They waited til May 2009. 6 months. Is that Lotto's fault? When Lotto abnegated responsibility, where was Evans in OCTOBER TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHT!!! to take proactive steps, and own the responsibility for the TTT.

He should have stepped in, and spoken to the twelve riders on the Tour squad, and worked out their TTT skill, and see if they could increase their strength for that discipline by focusing on in and training in a different zone on their chrono bike. If there were any riders still on the market, who could kick a TTT and be an engine, well, they should have been looked at. Cornu had probably left, Roesems left the year before. I already said that there are a dearth of guys in the peloton that can be an engine in the TTT and still perform domestique duties on the intermediate mtn stages.

Evans failed that task. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes, but I think he will feel deep down it was 100% Lotto, without appreciating how he could have changed things from the get-go.

 

[auscyclefan94]

AusCycle, I dont think Evans and his team, ever really believed he could win the Tour, even at his peak, because then they would have done everything, to the extent even bringing in a new sponsor for a few million, to finance the tilt.

I do not think you can win the Tour without the euphemistic "medical program". The evidence is clear everyone else has had a comprehensive program in GTs, and there was even some noise about Evans, but no clear trail, it was disputed, and no real evidence. So, this is up in the air about Evans, that part of his result. And, you cannot separate it, or stick posts in another forum, they are fundamental inputs in the performance function of the sport.

Now if the team believed in Evans, and he believed in himself, he would have got the right team. If not the guys on medical programs who could not perform if on bread and water, Kohl, Dekker, Popo, Horner, because, those guys are freekin' talented riders when they get those inputs.

But Evans would have said, "stock the team with talent, I want these riders..."

guys, prior to 2008, like Lovqvist, Rogers, Larsson. One of those guys might be a bread and water rider, TL, may. Trying to find 8 domestiques like that, impossible imo.

So, lets say you stock the team with such talent. Hoste and Vansummeren are about the only guys I could consent to taking from Belgium. And they would need to really work on their chrono with a specific theshold and zone for the TTT. Because it was inevitable the TTT would return.

So like the USPS squads of the past, apart from the Spaniards, they were stocked with riders who could bust out a chrono too.

This team could win the Tour.

Evans
Kohl
Rogers
Dekker
Popo
Lovqvist
Horner
Larsson
Vansummeren
Hoste

one extra would be a reserve. Looking at that list, it probably would have required Lotto to bring an extra 2 million euro to the table, so add that to their budget.

That is equivalent to Saxo from last year. 2008 Saxo.

So, if Coucke and Sergeant say "oh Cadel, sorry, we don't have the budget", Cadel says "BS, get your business strategy aligned to your cycling strategy, you get in a new manager who can find the commercial support, I will find a co-sponsor from Australia who can buy these riders for me"...

AusCycle, you need to get your freekin head out of the ground. Evans was never proactive. He never took control. He never led the team. Why was the TTT training and that planning done in the Spring? Huh, that should have been planned for, on the day after the route was announced. That is October 2008. They waited til May 2009. 6 months. Is that Lotto's fault? When Lotto abnegated responsibility, where was Evans in OCTOBER TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHT!!! to take proactive steps, and own the responsibility for the TTT.
He should have stepped in, and spoken to the twelve riders on the Tour squad, and worked out their TTT skill, and see if they could increase their strength for that discipline by focusing on in and training in a different zone on their chrono bike. If there were any riders still on the market, who could kick a TTT and be an engine, well, they should have been looked at. Cornu had probably left, Roesems left the year before. I already said that there are a dearth of guys in the peloton that can be an engine in the TTT and still perform domestique duties on the intermediate mtn stages.

Evans failed that task. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes, but I think he will feel deep down it was 100% Lotto, without appreciating how he could have changed things from the get-go.

Evans has always believed and still believes he can win the tour.

Evans has wanted the team to stock it with talent but it is managements job to get those riders.

it's not CE's fault that lotto have gotten rid of some riders. You can only do so much to keep a rider to stay. They obviously saw better opportunities at other teams.

Evans wanted the team to do ttt recon but it took a lot of pushing over the line to finally get a ttt training camp going which wasn't on the actual course. Evans pushed for that.

You make it out that evans should organise everything when it is Lotto that should do most of the organising as CE is a rider and should have input but his job is to ride not to manage and organise trainning camps.

An australian team could not support a GC rider, commercially there would not be enough support or money and cycling needs to become a bigger sport before we can get businesses to put in the money and sport required to help the team out.

 

[blackcat]

Evans has always believed and still believes he can win the tour.

Evans has wanted the team to stock it with talent but it is managements job to get those riders.

it's not CE's fault that lotto have gotten rid of some riders. You can only do so much to keep a rider to stay. They obviously saw better opportunities at other teams.

Evans wanted the team to do ttt recon but it took a lot of pushing over the line to finally get a ttt training camp going which wasn't on the actual course. Evans pushed for that.

You make it out that evans should organise everything when it is Lotto that should do most of the organising as CE is a rider and should have input but his job is to ride not to manage and organise trainning camps.

Evans would not want to go into politics would he. He aint no Karl Rove or Rahm Emanuel/David Axelrod. Evans would be stymied as quick as one can say whispering campaign.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Evans would not want to go into politics would he. He aint no Karl Rove or Rahm Emanuel/David Axelrod. Evans would be stymied as quick as one can say whispering campaign.

Definetly not belgian politics. I don't think many would want to go into politics.

 

[blackcat]

he could hire Mathias Cormann as his Karl Rove and headkicker.

 

[auscyclefan94]

he could hire Mathias Cormann as his Karl Rove and headkicker.

interesting to see that evans has taken over lance as king of the thread topics.

 

[ak-zaaf]

So if he makes the big attack and then gets caught and goes backwards, he will be further back than just staying with the main guys. The tour and any other GT is NOT about gaining time but not losing time. lets say evans got the time back in the itt in 08, people then would of said it wasn't a mistake to not chase down Carlos Sastre.

But he didn't. Sastre took the risk, made the big attack and won the tour. The year before the difference was made in the Chicken/Contador attacks. Again in attacks. If Contador would have thought your way last tour it would have been more boring than it was now.

If you're behind it is about gaining time. And that's something Cadel doesn't seem capable of.

 

[auscyclefan94]

But he didn't. Sastre took the risk, made the big attack and won the tour. The year before the difference was made in the Chicken/Contador attacks. Again in attacks. If Contador would have thought your way last tour it would have been more boring than it was now.

If you're behind it is about gaining time. And that's something Cadel doesn't seem capable of.

i agree with your last comment. i probably should of reworded my statement a bit better. have a listen to the interview i gave a link for at the top of the page.

 

[powderpuff]

But Evans would have said, "stock the team with talent, I want these riders..."


one extra would be a reserve. Looking at that list, it probably would have required Lotto to bring an extra 2 million euro to the table, so add that to their budget.


So, if Coucke and Sergeant say "oh Cadel, sorry, we don't have the budget", Cadel says "BS, get your business strategy aligned to your cycling strategy, you get in a new manager who can find the commercial support, I will find a co-sponsor from Australia who can buy these riders for me"...

Evans failed that task. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes, but I think he will feel deep down it was 100% Lotto, without appreciating how he could have changed things from the get-go.

+1 Lotto failed as a business to protect and build their promote biggest asset, Cadel. They knew of his lack of business support and they played on it to the best of their ability.

Cadel is not a business man, he is a cyclist, and he failed to hire the team that could promote and protect him as a cyclist and promote him as a money earning asset for Lotto and his own self.

Learn he must from the last 5 years, so he can get back to enjoy riding the bike and enjoy the atmosphere generated by the team around him believing in him as a person and cyclist.

 

[blackcat]

+1 Lotto failed as a business to protect and build their promote biggest asset, Cadel. They knew of his lack of business support and they played on it to the best of their ability.

Cadel is not a business man, he is a cyclist, and he failed to hire the team that could promote and protect him as a cyclist and promote him as a money earning asset for Lotto and his own self.

Learn he must from the last 5 years, so he can get back to enjoy riding the bike and enjoy the atmosphere generated by the team around him believing in him as a person and cyclist.

Powderpuff who the heck do you think you are? Do you know the force? Are YOU Yoda?

 

[Ferminal]

Powderpuff who the heck do you think you are? Do you know the force? Are YOU Yoda?

Isn't that Yoda in his avatar

 

[Anonymous]

So either you are arguing that, if we ignore Contador, without the TTT, we simply had a race in which all remained fairly equal, in which case there is no real significant point that applies to Cadel alone. And he was caught with his trousers down on the first "real day" of the TdF.

Or you are arguing that there is something really significant about being a few seconds up on other riders at stage 15 in a 3-week race where "nothing has happened" yet, and the promised venom was kept bottled until the end.

Ignoring that once we left Verbier, he lost 7+ mins the next day (and 6 on LA, 5 on AS), making the whole TTT a mute point anyway.

I get the accounting, I don't get what the real point is. He lost time, after which he didn't close the gap, he didn't take the race by the scruff of the neck, and didn't made his mark (which wouldn't have happened before stage 16 anyway then).

I understand he races to be close to the front if not at the front. And his strength is that he is usually consistent doing that, and that the TTT torpedoed "something". But certainly not his chances to win that one, as he had no hope in hell of winning it, with or without TTT.

"Just" being a good diesel isn't enough. And if it hadn't all become about 3rd place, AC and AS would have put some more clean air between them and "also rans".

My point still stands, that the people that call Cadel a whinger have very selective hearing,[/qoute]

I won't respond to that, as that is not my issue with Cadel as a rider. Where others have raised their game and made their chances and luck, GT Cadel seems to rely reliably on getting damn close to the front, as if that is a winning strategy all in itself, but appears to lack (so far) that extra spark that you need to nail it, ans thus, inevitably, falls victim to the same bumps in the road that other contenders also need to overcome. But winners do.

I just don't have much time for those "if this one variable had been different then..." lines of thinking. As you can do that for a 1000 other factors too, all which influence the entire narrative of how the TdF plays out from day to day. What if Gesink hadn't crashed out? What if it wasn't for that rainy day? What if Frank had had a good day on Ventoux and was able to attack LA? What would have happened to Cadel there if he was still in contact with them at that point? Etc etc.

My point was that, for some reason, I don't appear to lose many classic GT race memories if I erase Cadel's name from my data bank. For a supposed (and genuine) GT contender, that ain't a good thing. And there are many lesser riders about whom I can't say the same thing. I hope it changes next year. I don't have high hopes.

You're putting a lot of words into my mouth here that i never said, never implied or even came close to implying.

All I was saying is that if you look at the individual decisive stages up to and including stage 15, Cadel was very strong, but the TTT UP TO THAT POINT meant that he was sitting well behind the other favourites on the GC - that was all I was saying.

I agree with you that there are 1000 examples of riders saying if only this certain thing didn't happen, i'm not disputing that, I just can't stand the fact that for example if Andy Schleck says the words "i was unlucky today" he is deemed unlucky, but when Cadel Evans says the words "i was unlucky today" he is portrayed as a whinger... Same words, different portrayal.. it's just ridiculous

You're post suggests to me that you have taken what I said, evolved it into something it's not, and then reposted something under my name that doesn't represent my view - hey, wait a minute, that's exactly what the cycling media does to Cadel too

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Didn't Cadel say that his team just didn't have the time to go recon the TTT course?

Cadel should have been a leader, and got his team there one way or another. "We're too busy" shouldn't have been accepted.

 

[timmers]

+1 Lotto failed as a business to protect and build their promote biggest asset, Cadel. They knew of his lack of business support and they played on it to the best of their ability.

Cadel is not a business man, he is a cyclist, and he failed to hire the team that could promote and protect him as a cyclist and promote him as a money earning asset for Lotto and his own self.

Learn he must from the last 5 years, so he can get back to enjoy riding the bike and enjoy the atmosphere generated by the team around him believing in him as a person and cyclist.

You think that Evans was Silence Lotto's biggest asset. They obviously didn't agree. The sponsor Coucke appears to be happy with the return on his investment. I think that often what gets said in Europe is lost in translation for Australians and other english speakers with our very different cultures to Europe.

Evans has a manager apparently Rominger to look after the business side. Why hasn't he sacked him if he isn't happy?

You think BMC are going to believe in Evans as a person? Well we will have to wait and see but I think if you want to be a true Tour contender you need to display different leadership and personal skills to what Evans has shown publicly to date. Is it to late for him to change?

 

[auscyclefan94]

+1 Lotto failed as a business to protect and build their promote biggest asset, Cadel. They knew of his lack of business support and they played on it to the best of their ability.

Cadel is not a business man, he is a cyclist, and he failed to hire the team that could promote and protect him as a cyclist and promote him as a money earning asset for Lotto and his own self.

Learn he must from the last 5 years, so he can get back to enjoy riding the bike and enjoy the atmosphere generated by the team around him believing in him as a person and cyclist.

I'm pretty sure he did say that he wanted some better riders. he's been screaming for more help and has said tour after tour that he needed more support. lotto have failed to see that. he did say that he and lotto could of looked for some more riders in post 2007 tour.

 

[Francois the Postman]

You think that Evans was Silence Lotto's biggest asset. They obviously didn't agree. The sponsor Coucke appears to be happy with the return on his investment. I think that often what gets said in Europe is lost in translation for Australians and other english speakers with our very different cultures to Europe.

Agree. And Belgium especially is a cycling nation like no others.

The Tour is big, but if a rider has only that as a target, he won't be the only priority for Silence, as they also have huge expectations to meet in a very busy Belgian-centric schedule, and relatively little funds to make it all happen. Wonder why Silence Lotto riders tops the "raced km" charts for 2009? They don't train, they race. They are pretty much old-school in that respect, still, I think.

And their national heroes like Tommeke and Gilbert are such a bigger focus to Belgians than Cadel Evans would ever be, even if he is 10x better than the next-best Belgian Rider and rides for a Belgian team. If they had to chose between a Cadel win in the Tour, or a Belgian to shine at the Belgian classics, I wouldn't put it past most to opt for the latter.

From Silence Lotto perspective, Cadel would never be their biggest asset if he was their only one (he'd be a liability in that case). And even if he was in a position to actually win the Tour for them, which he never really was.

I always felt that Cadel was in the wrong team if he wanted to have a team totally behind him to get that Tour victory. A Belgian team with a Belgian sponsor. Where did it become a surprise that they also had other priorities (irrational as it may sound to people who can't see the Belgian angle) than get him a Tour victory? He had a team in which he could do well, and he did.

If you can get it into your head that the Ronde van Vlaanderen (Tour of Flanders) et al generate far more passion in that nation than a World Championship will ever do, then you are getting close to understanding why Cadel would find it hard to get Silence Lotto adjust their priorities to (completely) match his.

Silence Lotto's annual must-perform-here race calendar is much more crowded than that of most other teams, and they have a sponsor who is quite happy with that. I'm agnostic as to whether Cadel tried to refocus SIL or not, but if you think he could lay down the law there for his ideal Tour prep, you are not quite getting what angle the Belgians take on aiming for a successful cycling year from their perspective (for team, sponsor and country).

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'm pretty sure he did say that he wanted some better riders. he's been screaming for more help and has said tour after tour that he needed more support. lotto have failed to see that. he did say that he and lotto could of looked for some more riders in post 2007 tour.

Cadel interview with Ride media

The idea of riding the giro is something I have always liked. I would of loved to do it, but my goals were the tour and the worlds.

If they (the media) only knew how hard I had to fight to not ride the giro and do the program I wanted. Of course because I didn’t ride in Italy, everything that went wrong in the team was my fault from that point onwards. I had to wear this all year. Once my opinion was heard I thought “I’ve gotta win the vuelta and the worlds.”!

We had a meeting on Friday before the worlds and I came out of it thinking about what had been said. I checked with Simon Clarke who I had been sharing a room with to get his take. “Have I misinterpreted: Simon Gerrans is the protected leader and I’m just here in case. Is that right?” Simon Clarke said “Yeah that’s what I understood as well.’ So I went to see Neil Stephens the next day. I said “Hey, do you have any faith in me to do a good result in this race?’ Neil said “yeah, yeah. I do, but Simon is the most complete all round rider. If it comes to one on one at the end then you’re going to be the man.” I said “Am I the protected rider or not?” “Ah said Neil, Simon gerrans is the main guy but…’”

 

[Francois the Postman]

[CADEL in interview:] If they (the media) only knew how hard I had to fight to not ride the giro and do the program I wanted. Of course because I didn’t ride in Italy, everything that went wrong in the team was my fault from that point onwards. I had to wear this all year. Once my opinion was heard I thought “I’ve gotta win the vuelta and the worlds.”!

You know, it sounds more and more that the building narrative and conviction that "he just didn't have it" finally sparked him to take to the road to *really* prove something. And suddenly he did it without that additional support! Maybe it was more Cadel than the team after all then, that stopped him, not?

"I've gotta win this" should be his default position period. That he needed to get there is telling.

At some point you gotta take the race by the scruff of the neck, if you want to win. To me he made a career out of not doing that, GTs especially. If he's become this new man in 2010, we'll see.