Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

These days nothing is 100% when it comes to Rogla.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692917603885359312

View: https://twitter.com/eurosport/status/1692917603885359312

 

[Berniece]

If everyone stays healthy I can’t see him winning the Vuelta. Although he is the type of rider that wouldn’t go all out a couple of weeks before to hide his form, so he might be better than he seems

 

[CyclistAbi]

Historically speaking indeed winning four Vueltas. That is not an easy task at all.

 

[Berniece]

Historically speaking indeed winning four Vueltas. That is not an easy task at all.

He would deserve it though, to compensate for the TDF he never won

 

[Gargamel35]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692917603885359312

View: https://twitter.com/eurosport/status/1692917603885359312

He should really stop celebrating anything. The man is going to hurt himself.

 

[zlev11]

This guy is a great rider, but he is way of winning is always so boring. It's a shame because i think he has the physical condition to attack from far and beat everybody like pogacar, Vingegaard, remco or van der poel do, but i respect the people who like is way of race.

did you miss stage 17 from the 2021 vuelta?

 

[SHAD0W93]

did you miss stage 17 from the 2021 vuelta?

Did you miss that he just followed Bernal’s wheel until the valley and then started to ride? Only reason Roglic started helping is due to Bernal getting and growing the initial gap.

 

[bNator]

It's not a given he beats Pogi in an uphill sprint. To the contrary...

I think 2020 Rogla beats Pog in any uphill sprint imaginable (except Grand Colombier, haha). But this is not 2020 Rogla anymore. I think. To be seen in a very short while…

 

[bNator]

Did you miss that he just followed Bernal’s wheel until the valley and then started to ride? Only reason Roglic started helping is due to Bernal getting and growing the initial gap.

I agree on that one. That attack would not have happened if not for Bernal.

There is, however, also the “no risk no glory attack” on that same Vuelta. It was from quite far out, not really provoked or necessary. And Itzulia 2021 final stage or last years Vuelta when he gained time on Remco. But these last two examples, he was forced to do something. Other than that, I can’t remember far out attacks when going for GC.

 

[Extinction]

I think 2020 Rogla beats Pog in any uphill sprint imaginable (except Grand Colombier, haha). But this is not 2020 Rogla anymore. I think. To be seen in a very short while…

Nor is it 2020 Pog anymore. Let us see what Rog does in the Vuelta, which also depends on Vingegaard.

 

[zlev11]

Did you miss that he just followed Bernal’s wheel until the valley and then started to ride? Only reason Roglic started helping is due to Bernal getting and growing the initial gap.

this is wrong. he followed him the last 4.5k of the penultimate climb because duh, he didn't even really need to go with him. but they worked together on the descent all the way to the bottom of Covadonga, where Roglic shredded him. if anything, Roglic did more work than Bernal on the parts of the course where one would most benefit from sitting on wheels.

 

[bNator]

Nor is it 2020 Pog anymore. Let us see what Rog does in the Vuelta, which also depends on Vingegaard.

Exactly. I am ready to accept any outcome. From hopefully finding out he is in fact still 2020 Rogla (relative to the field) to realising he is beginning to fade. The only outcome I really hope to avoid is again being hindered in some way to not be able to see his form again.

And that’s not preparing an excuse for him. He’s 34, fading a bit at this point in his career would be completely normal and if he doesn’t win or at least come very close while staying out of any major crash or illness, that’s what my conclusion will be.

 

[SHAD0W93]

this is wrong. he followed him the last 4.5k of the penultimate climb because duh, he didn't even really need to go with him. but they worked together on the descent all the way to the bottom of Covadonga, where Roglic shredded him. if anything, Roglic did more work than Bernal on the parts of the course where one would most benefit from sitting on wheels.

Roglic followed Bernal the whole climb after Bernal attacked and on the descent, with the only time he passed Bernal was when he had better lines in the corners. Then Bernal went back to the front. Rolgic didn’t start helping until they reached the false flat and valley. Once reaching the final climb is when Bernal was dropped. This wasn’t a master plan attack of Roglic, he followed the wheel and worked because Bernal made that gap. That doesn’t change how much stronger Roglic was over everyone.

View: https://youtu.be/qDYY4do754I

View: https://youtu.be/mVT_ZCDjCTA

 

[zlev11]

Roglic followed Bernal the whole climb after Bernal attacked and on the descent, with the only time he passed Bernal was when he had better lines in the corners. Then Bernal went back to the front. Rolgic didn’t start helping until they reached the false flat and valley. Once reaching the final climb is when Bernal was dropped. This wasn’t a master plan attack of Roglic, he followed the wheel and worked because Bernal made that gap. That doesn’t change how much stronger Roglic was over everyone.

View: https://youtu.be/qDYY4do754I

View: https://youtu.be/mVT_ZCDjCTA

you're either being extremely disingenuous or are just ill-informed. Bernal attacked 4.5km from the top of the climb and was followed by Roglic without any hesitation. Bernal was 2:44 behind Roglic on GC to start the day and Roglic had two teammates in the group still. He risked a ton to go with Bernal, who was barely even a threat to him attacking alone on a stage like this, with such a long false flat and flat between the two climbs. he really did not stand a chance of staying away without Roglic with him, who could've just depended on his two teammates in the group behind to keep the gap close enough until the start of Covadonga.

Bernal led down the super technical and wet part of the descent, then Roglic started working with him with 45km to go, with the gap at 1:10. By 25k to go the gap was doubled to 2:20. who cares if it wasn't a "master plan attack"? that makes it even better! the argument was that he "never attacks from long range" when in fact he did one of the best long range moves of the past two decades even when he had absolutely no reason to do it. for example, he put way more energy into this and risked so much more than Vingegaard does when he attacks and then has Van Aert pull him until the final climb.

you didn't have to link me to videos of the stage, i rewatch it just about every 3 months.

 

[KZD]

you're either being extremely disingenuous or are just ill-informed. Bernal attacked 4.5km from the top of the climb and was followed by Roglic without any hesitation. Bernal was 2:44 behind Roglic on GC to start the day and Roglic had two teammates in the group still. He risked a ton to go with Bernal, who was barely even a threat to him attacking alone on a stage like this, with such a long false flat and flat between the two climbs. he really did not stand a chance of staying away without Roglic with him, who could've just depended on his two teammates in the group behind to keep the gap close enough until the start of Covadonga.

Bernal led down the super technical and wet part of the descent, then Roglic started working with him with 45km to go, with the gap at 1:10. By 25k to go the gap was doubled to 2:20. who cares if it wasn't a "master plan attack"? that makes it even better! the argument was that he "never attacks from long range" when in fact he did one of the best long range moves of the past two decades even when he had absolutely no reason to do it. for example, he put way more energy into this and risked so much more than Vingegaard does when he attacks and then has Van Aert pull him until the final climb.

you didn't have to link me to videos of the stage, i rewatch it just about every 3 months.

The thing is that Roglic didn't attack that day, he reacted to Bernal's attack. Don't get me wrong, he was still pretty daring that day and put on a show but although he can be an offensive rider at times, he is not the kind of rider to initiate long range attacks dozens of kilometers away from the finish line like Pogacar, Remco or Van der Poel do.

 

[zlev11]

The thing is that Roglic didn't attack that day, he reacted to Bernal's attack. Don't get me wrong, he was still pretty daring that day and put on a show but although he can be an offensive rider at times, he is not the kind of rider to initiate long range attacks dozens of kilometers away from the finish line like Pogacar, Remco or Van der Poel do.

that's just semantics. he risked just as much as if he would've initiated the attack himself.

 

[Andy schleck]

did you miss stage 17 from the 2021 vuelta?

You have just one example. Like i said, he has the physical abilities to do more long range attacks like that, even if he just followed bernal. If it wasn't for bernal, he wouldn't do that.

 

[zlev11]

You have just one example. Like i said, he has the phisycal abilities to do more long range attacks like that, even if he just followed bernal. If it wasn't for bernal, he wouldn't do that.

i have more. how about the last stage of 2021 Itzulia? or maybe some hater will come in here and point out that it doesn't count because he got away on a descent. you could also count stage 10 of the 2021 Vuelta, another day where he didn't have to attack, couldn't win the stage because the breakaway was too far away and then everyone called him stupid for trying. so we're up to 3, that's about as many as any stage race rider except Pogacar.

if you think about the GT's he's been in, where was a stage where a long range attack was possible or not insanely stupid? 2019 Giro he was sick/injured, 2019 Vuelta had maybe the Cortals stage. 2020 Vuelta didn't have much, the one stage where a long range attack would've made sense in this years Giro got neutered and he fell the day before anyway. unless you wanted him to attack on the Giau and lose the race.

 

[KZD]

that's just semantics. he risked just as much as if he would've initiated the attack himself.

Its still different because Roglič was, at least initially, reactive not active. Plus, although he risked a lot that day (and to me his move made sense because Bernal had won the Giro that year and the Tour two years before so he was still a threat), he would have risked more if he had started to work before or if he had dropped Bernal earlier.

 

[Netserk]

Why would he drop Bernal on the flat?

 

[theyoungest]

Pogacar sits on wheels all day and attacks in the final 2k: yes! The Tour de France is saved by the amazingly attacking rider Pogacar!

Roglic sits on a wheel for a while in a 60 k duo attack, cooperates and then goes solo from 8 kms out: boring wheelsucker.

 

[samhocking]

I'd say he races economically and often his tactic appears to be if the group is together, he'll follow wheels and sprint for time bonuses rather than racing another rider or the course to find that time. My hunch is LaVuelta has less riders in Tour de France level form and La Vuelta's 10-6-4 bonuses and more mountain / hilly finishes suit his way of racing and sprinting a little more than LeTour.

 

[Extinction]

Exactly. I am ready to accept any outcome. From hopefully finding out he is in fact still 2020 Rogla (relative to the field) to realising he is beginning to fade. The only outcome I really hope to avoid is again being hindered in some way to not be able to see his form again.

And that’s not preparing an excuse for him. He’s 34, fading a bit at this point in his career would be completely normal and if he doesn’t win or at least come very close while staying out of any major crash or illness, that’s what my conclusion will be.

Well, let's say Roglic came into the pro ranks in 2013 in a rather unorthodox manner, coming as he did from another sport via a rapid transition. That shows real talent, of the predestined kind. He was 38th in his first Tour in 2017, then 4th the following year. His period of maturity thus begins in 2018. This means we are in the seventh season of his mature phase. Historically he should be at the upper ends of longevity, if we go on peak years for the past greats of the sport; although in some cases it was natural/mental fatigue that caused the sudden decline, others injury related. Now Primoz doesn't seem to be showing signs of an imminent decline, however, it's unlikely he can maintain this level in the future. He's 34, as you mentioned, for one thing, and he's been banged up over the years for another. I think he is the favorite for this Vuelta, however, that depends on Vingegaard's, Evenepoel's and perhaps Ayuso's level. Any of these three, if on cracking form, could also win GC I think. Whatever the case, this Vuelta could be as intruiging as the Battle of the Titains that was the recent Tour between Vingegaard and Pogacar. Yet if the Dane shows up with his Grand Bouclé form, I predict it's over for the rest of the aspiring contenders.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Roglic likely will win 1 min just in sprints. But Remco is likely to drop Roglic. Roglic can also crash leaving him vulnerable. Jumbo are likely to use Jonas as a medium range attacker with both probably trying to work Remco over. However for all three coming 2nd is not worth it so if they are too far behind expect fireworks.