Fancy Bears hack ADAMS system

[MrRoboto]

Re: Re:

I've been looking at that Biles file again, and it still looks to me like a normal positive test.
An AAF. No TUE. Hence an ADRV.

I'm confused why this is not picked up by anybody.
Or maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the link again: http://fancybear.net/
It's the first or second page of the Biles file.

She has a TUE for a very similar drug. I guess she'll easily get a retroactive TUE for this one.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

I think they are doing it right, the Football Leaks way. That has the effect of keeping people in expectation (like Amnes2015), trying to guess who is doing it, keeping the public opinion interested.

Doing it the Wikileaks way (overdose of information) has the detrimental effect of people forgetting it very soon.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

LOL i know nothing about gymnastics...............and to myself that biles woman looked 'iffy'...

those wheeling out the 'tired'..........athletes have the right to confidentiality re. TUES should

remember athletes have chosen a career in the public eye.................

Mark L

I've been looking at that Biles file again, and it still looks to me like a normal positive test.
An AAF. No TUE. Hence an ADRV.

I'm confused why this is not picked up by anybody.
Or maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the link again: http://fancybear.net/
It's the first or second page of the Biles file.

So, I don't know the rules, but is it possible tests are done even if you have an exemption? Or is it established (cross-checked) that if you have a TUE no tests to that substance are to be made?

Only an expert will know, but it makes sense the cross checking is made a posteriori, so a lot of positives would appear (I would say most of the legal-dopers)

"Ok, I have a positive here. Simone for Ritalin"
"hmmm, hmmm, checking.. found it, yes, she's a legal-doper. Next, please"

From what I understand, they are publishing the relevant information. That they use the medication during competition (Rio Olympics), and that they are legal in doing so. The objective is showing it is widespread amongst the big names and making people think, reason (that a bunch of top athletes shouldn't be a bunch of sick people, therefore the system is rotten).

Thanks.

So if Tygart is right, and she is a clean athlete, it suggests she either already has a TUE for the product (which raises the question why that TUE is not visible in the Fancybear files), or she's applied for a retrospective TUE and is going to get it approved.
Is that about right?

Anybody know how long after a positive test USADA allow an athlete to submit a retrospective TUE?

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Does it make sense a top athlete in a sport where focus and concentration is crucial has Attention Deficit Disorder?

 

[sniper]

Re:

Does it make sense a top athlete in a sport where focus and concentration is crucial has Attention Deficit Disorder?

No it doesn't.
None of the TUEs make sense. Well, except for their performance enhancing effect.
But the press is collectively going to step over this. Trust me.

The important thing is to see if Fancybears can show us genuine positive tests that WADA and/or USADA did not act upon.

I'm still not sure about Biles (see my previous post in response to yours).

 

[sniper]

Another thing to bear in mind is that these TUEs are only necessary for the DETECTABLE products.
It's pretty reasonable to assume that athletes who are willing to cheat by means of the TUE system, will also be willing to use a range of non-detectable products where no TUE is required.
Microdosing EPO, AICAR, HGH.
Etc.
But this, too, the press will ignore.

 

[Farcanal]

Re:

You cannot tame The Bear.


The international community went too far in punishing Russia and their athletes in the Olympics. Now they have to face the response.

The world will largely look the other way, probably. But at least now some hard evidence as to how results are achieved in sports will be available to anyone interested.

The international "community" (not sure that exists - anybody got the web address?) did not go too far in punishing Russia, in fact it did not go far enough. The fact that other country's problems are not identified or dealt with is no argument for not taking the issue seriously and enforcing the full penalties. That would be equivalent to allowing drunk drivers to avoid bans just because others haven't yet been caught.

The world may look the other way, but if they do it will be because the mainstream press will report facts, i.e. that most of the competitors had legal exemptions for using said substances. Russia didn't work within any set of rules and certainly wasn't guilty of just stretching rules a bit. It blatantly avoided enforcing the rules whilst encouraging, and even enabling, their athletes to violate those same rules.

As has been said previously, if the TUE system needs to be scrapped or severely modified, that's a different argument, but it has nothing to do with the behavior that was uncovered in Russia.

I get your point, that this is anger in Russia manifesting itself as action against the others, but let's not pretend that there's anything righteous about this outfit's intentions. Do any of you really imagine that this kind of activity is allowed to happen in Russia without the sanction, or even assistance of the state?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Multiple ADRVs for methylphenidate for Biles. Maybe she got a TUE for that after the games?

 

[Tienus]

Does it make sense a top athlete in a sport where focus and concentration is crucial has Attention Deficit Disorder?

From own experience I can say it does. Hyperfocus is the magic word.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re: Re:

LOL i know nothing about gymnastics...............and to myself that biles woman looked 'iffy'...

those wheeling out the 'tired'..........athletes have the right to confidentiality re. TUES should

remember athletes have chosen a career in the public eye.................

Mark L

I've been looking at that Biles file again, and it still looks to me like a normal positive test.
An AAF. No TUE. Hence an ADRV.

I'm confused why this is not picked up by anybody.
Or maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the link again: http://fancybear.net/
It's the first or second page of the Biles file.

So, I don't know the rules, but is it possible tests are done even if you have an exemption? Or is it established (cross-checked) that if you have a TUE no tests to that substance are to be made?

Only an expert will know, but it makes sense the cross checking is made a posteriori, so a lot of positives would appear (I would say most of the legal-dopers)

"Ok, I have a positive here. Simone for Ritalin"
"hmmm, hmmm, checking.. found it, yes, she's a legal-doper. Next, please"

From what I understand, they are publishing the relevant information. That they use the medication during competition (Rio Olympics), and that they are legal in doing so. The objective is showing it is widespread amongst the big names and making people think, reason (that a bunch of top athletes shouldn't be a bunch of sick people, therefore the system is rotten).

Thanks.

So if Tygart is right, and she is a clean athlete, it suggests she either already has a TUE for the product (which raises the question why that TUE is not visible in the Fancybear files), or she's applied for a retrospective TUE and is going to get it approved.
Is that about right?

Anybody know how long after a positive test USADA allow an athlete to submit a retrospective TUE?

About that, I missed the detail of being different substances, but I'm not so sure that is relevant (they seem very close, in the name and in the purpose - only an expert can confirm it, but it looks it makes no difference: they are both ritalin.

The bears don't seem too worried about those details (if you notice all 4 positive tests are from Rio, and the TUEs are from 2013/2014), I think they only want to show the public there are positive tests, and the reason why they don't become public: because athletes can legally take the substances. In my view, it's what matters

Point: Top Athletes Dope.
Point: Anti Doping Agencies allow them.

(It's not even clear they managed to steal all data WADA has, or that they have been through everything.)

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

You cannot tame The Bear.


The international community went too far in punishing Russia and their athletes in the Olympics. Now they have to face the response.

The world will largely look the other way, probably. But at least now some hard evidence as to how results are achieved in sports will be available to anyone interested.

The international "community" (not sure that exists - anybody got the web address?) did not go too far in punishing Russia, in fact it did not go far enough. The fact that other country's problems are not identified or dealt with is no argument for not taking the issue seriously and enforcing the full penalties. That would be equivalent to allowing drunk drivers to avoid bans just because others haven't yet been caught.

The world may look the other way, but if they do it will be because the mainstream press will report facts, i.e. that most of the competitors had legal exemptions for using said substances. Russia didn't work within any set of rules and certainly wasn't guilty of just stretching rules a bit. It blatantly avoided enforcing the rules whilst encouraging, and even enabling, their athletes to violate those same rules.

As has been said previously, if the TUE system needs to be scrapped or severely modified, that's a different argument, but it has nothing to do with the behavior that was uncovered in Russia.

I get your point, that this is anger in Russia manifesting itself as action against the others, but let's not pretend that there's anything righteous about this outfit's intentions. Do any of you really imagine that this kind of activity is allowed to happen in Russia without the sanction, or even assistance of the state?

http://theduran.com/russian-olympic-doping-scandal-mclaren-report-sexed-implicated-clean-atheletes/

There is an argument that the McLaren report was fundamentally flawed as the Australians have conceded. Forbes in the USA has also taken this point of view. The reality is sports stink. To single out the McLaren as a beacon of light in this murky world is inadmissible based on evidence.

 

[sniper]

cheers, vespuzzio, i see it now.
you're right. The TUE probably covers the product she tested positive for.

 

[sniper]

best tweet i've read on the topic so far:
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/775978335289614336

 

[python]

Re: Re:

The international "community" (not sure that exists - anybody got the web address?) did not go too far in punishing.... (snipped for brevity - python)

many of those that got 'punished' having never-ever produced a positive or raising any suspicions (like their pole vault jumper- i forgot her name) are making 2 very reasonable arguments:

a. we were treated with a double standard
b. the principle of a collective punishment is fundamentally unfair b/c dozens of innocents got 'punished'

as a person who was born in and grew up in a so called free world, i reject both principles as fundamentally undemocratic and perverse.

dozens of examples of the western countries taking their economic, financial etc dominance into a sporting world by thickly populating various international feds and decision bodies, thus frequently applying the rules in a biased manner even worst - sometimes providing a cover for the downright dopers and scoundrels...

the negative stereotypes we have developed in the west luckily seems not have infected many posters in this thread. i am afraid, you aren't in the count.

 

[Cake]

Re:

Doing it the Wikileaks way (overdose of information) has the detrimental effect of people forgetting it very soon.

That's an excellent point. It's amazing how the modern thing of "24 hour news overload" causes people to forget stuff that happened relatively recently. If they want maximum effect, these hackers ought to drop specifics about particular athletes out, bit by bit, because otherwise it'll become lost in the white noise.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

LOL i know nothing about gymnastics...............and to myself that biles woman looked 'iffy'...

those wheeling out the 'tired'..........athletes have the right to confidentiality re. TUES should

remember athletes have chosen a career in the public eye.................

Mark L

I've been looking at that Biles file again, and it still looks to me like a normal positive test.
An AAF. No TUE. Hence an ADRV.

I'm confused why this is not picked up by anybody.
Or maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the link again: http://fancybear.net/
It's the first or second page of the Biles file.

So, I don't know the rules, but is it possible tests are done even if you have an exemption? Or is it established (cross-checked) that if you have a TUE no tests to that substance are to be made?

Only an expert will know, but it makes sense the cross checking is made a posteriori, so a lot of positives would appear (I would say most of the legal-dopers)

"Ok, I have a positive here. Simone for Ritalin"
"hmmm, hmmm, checking.. found it, yes, she's a legal-doper. Next, please"

From what I understand, they are publishing the relevant information. That they use the medication during competition (Rio Olympics), and that they are legal in doing so. The objective is showing it is widespread amongst the big names and making people think, reason (that a bunch of top athletes shouldn't be a bunch of sick people, therefore the system is rotten).

The tester in the lab doesn't know the person whose sample it is. They have a code # on the sample and a request for performing tests for substances (or test lists) X,Y and Z. (not every sample can be checked for every possible substance).

They find a positive test, and enter the AAF against that code #, which finds its way into ADAMS.

The relevant ADO (national or international) once notified of the AAF, checks the paperwork which includes the step of checking for a TUE.
Only if the chain of custody etc checks out, and there is no TUE, will a possible ADRV be flagged.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Doing it the Wikileaks way (overdose of information) has the detrimental effect of people forgetting it very soon.

That's an excellent point. It's amazing how the modern thing of "24 hour news overload" causes people to forget stuff that happened relatively recently. If they want maximum effect, these hackers ought to drop specifics about particular athletes out, bit by bit, because otherwise it'll become lost in the white noise.

That's what they're doing. I imagine they have a lot of stuff saved and are releasing it slowly and carefully, building up to a climax: maybe Phelps or Bolt or Ledecky.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Doing it the Wikileaks way (overdose of information) has the detrimental effect of people forgetting it very soon.

That's an excellent point. It's amazing how the modern thing of "24 hour news overload" causes people to forget stuff that happened relatively recently. If they want maximum effect, these hackers ought to drop specifics about particular athletes out, bit by bit, because otherwise it'll become lost in the white noise.

Which was he way the Sony hack was done, slowly suffocating until there were resignations. It was made all the better by the denials to begin with.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Doing it the Wikileaks way (overdose of information) has the detrimental effect of people forgetting it very soon.

That's an excellent point. It's amazing how the modern thing of "24 hour news overload" causes people to forget stuff that happened relatively recently. If they want maximum effect, these hackers ought to drop specifics about particular athletes out, bit by bit, because otherwise it'll become lost in the white noise.

That's what they're doing. I imagine they have a lot of stuff saved and are releasing it slowly and carefully, building up to a climax: maybe Phelps or Bolt or Ledecky.

Phelps has ADHD, as does Lindsey Lohan. Phelps would have a TUE, Lindsey not.

Phelps, the American swimmer with a record-breaking 19 Olympic medals to his name, is probably the most famous person in the world with ADHD,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/aug/01/athletes-with-adhd

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re:

Multiple ADRVs for methylphenidate for Biles. Maybe she got a TUE for that after the games?

That is the chemical name for ritalin.

 

[sniper]

Yes, you're right.
Her TUEs cover the AAF.
So no ADRV.

 

[thehog]

Interesting... those are American dates by the way, M/D.

 

[Zebadeedee]

The ITF recently announced it had done away with silent bans. They now give players a get-out-of-jail card instead; a TUE!

 

[sniper]

good work from Tony.

shocker that journos are not finding this kind of inconsistencies.
it's cuz they're not looking.

 

[Bolder]

Re Biles: I'm sure you'll find she's not the only gymnast with an ADHD diagnosis/exemption. ADD diagnosis is really squishy, and college and high school kids, late night lawyers etc. have been taking Ritalin for years to sharpen up and calm down.

Re the Williamses...et alors?

However, as the father of an asthmatic but athletic son, and an asthmatic wife, I can tell you it's more common than you think, and that if even 15-20 percent of the peloton has some form of asthma I wouldn't be shocked.