fantasy doping draft

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

I am working on my pick, I am 99% there as far as the rider goes, but my knowledge of cycling in the 90s is weak so I am struggling to work out which race I should nominate.

Hint?

The GreenMonkey chose the right decade. Choose wisely, GM. Your Gt winner is still out there.

 

[hrotha]

I would have gone with Giro '98 Zülle, assuming the last 6 days didn't count.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re:

I would have gone with Giro '98 Zülle, assuming the last 6 days didn't count.

Okay, my lack of knowledge being exposed here, I did not even consider that race. I am doing a crash course on cycling in the 90s, learning a lot. I basically only knew of tour winners and a few others, Zulle, Virenque, being one of them. Had no idea Rominger was as good as he was. So I was expecting to be told I choose the wrong race.

 

[Tonton]

The '96 Zulle was the best IMO, Vuelta and ITT World Champion. Poor guy: when it rained on his glasses, he could not race. Very good choice.

 

[hrotha]

Nah, you didn't choose the wrong race. It's just that Zülle always seemed to showcase some inconsistency (at least outside the Vuelta), so even his best performances are marred by less than stellar rides where he ruined his own prospects to varying degrees. At the 1995 Tour, the only reason why he got in that breakaway to La Plagne is that he royally screwed up the day before in the ITT, theoretically his strong suit. At the 1998 Giro, he put in one of his strongest climbing performances, even dropping Pantani at Lago Laceno, but that was on the mostly not very serious climbs there were during the first two weeks of the race. While it certainly looked like he was untouchable, he seriously wavered in stage 17 (Selva di Val Gardena, one of my favourite stages ever), recovered a bit in stage 18, and completely collapsed in stage 19. Rumour has it he got over-ambitious and demanded the kind of ticking bomb Dufaux had been used to fly at Romandie; despite Voet's warning that it wouldn't suit him at a three-week race, Zülle insisted. The result seems to be an extraterrestrial performance at first, and a complete collapse later.

1996 and 1997 Vuelta Zülle was more consistent if memory serves, but it's hard to imagine he was stronger than either in 1995 or 1998. 1995 Tour Zülle probably has the best balance between consistency and performance level.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Also 1995 which I forgot to mention he was very strong Alpe d'Huez, an excellent time, the best of anyone who had not been picked and equal with Indurain whose performance in that race was picked as the best ever performance in this draft.

I suspect the few other riders I have in mind from the 90s will be chosen by the time I get to pick again so perhaps back to more recent times with my next pick.

 

[the sceptic]

round 2 pick 18, I select super domestique/crazy climber, Santi Perez (2004 vuelta)

He started the vuelta slowly and lost a lot of time in the first couple of weeks, however on stage 14 he started getting on fire by attacking with 5 km left on the final climb (with 1878 VAM), and managed to increase his lead solo over 20 km of flat with the group chasing behind.

The next day he crushed everyone in the MTT and put an amazing 2 minutes into GC leader Heras. He wasn't done yet however, and dropped Heras with another 30 or so seconds on the next MTF.

By now it was starting to look like Heras might actually lose the vuelta to this relatively unknown climber. On the final MTF of the vuelta, he continued his amazing domination. I'll let the good Dr. Ferrari sum it up.

A striking performance from Santiago Perez, who devoured the 560m of elevation of the last 6.5km of Puerto de Novaserrada with an amazing VAM = 2067 m/h!

The effort was relatively short and half the climb was done drafting from other riders, but the performance is simply HORS CATEGORIE!

You know you have gone full mutant when Dr. Ferrari can hardly contain his excitment. (in his cyclingnews blog! lol)

He finished off the vuelta with winning the flat ITT of course, but sadly it wasn't enough to win the GC. Still, the 2004 vuelta will go down in history as imo the most mutant GT of the 2000s, and dropping Heras with ease on MTF after MTF while putting up crazy power numbers means Santi will be able to climb with the very best of them.

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone want to trade up into the second round?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

the sceptic ...libertine would likely want to have a word with you.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Anyone want to trade up into the second round?

How does that work? I don't follow sports that do drafts.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Anyone want to trade up into the second round?

How does that work? I don't follow sports that do drafts.

Basically swap picks for picks.

typically someone in a lower position will offer their next pick (so basically a swap) + 1 other pick as compensation.

For example if you offered me #24 and #37 in exchange for #19.

 

[Netserk]

Ah, I thought it was a swap of already selected riders.

But wouldn't you end up with an extra rider if we go 2 for 1?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, doesn't really work when we all need to end up with the same number of riders.

If we were to then run a second draft where we could retain up to X number of our riders, you could trade one of your retained riders + a lower pick for a higher one, perhaps, giving you more picks in the draft but losing existing riders, or being trapped with some lower draftees but having the pick of the new draftees.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Ah, I thought it was a swap of already selected riders.
But wouldn't you end up with an extra rider if we go 2 for 1?

1 Already selected riders can be a part of it too, but I doubt it makes any sense at this stage when everyone only has 1 or 2 riders.

2 Are we only doing 9 rounds? If so then yes. That could be dealt with in this trade by complicating it a little more and adding a few swaps.

So #24 #37 #54 in exchange for #19 #59 #94

 

[Netserk]

I think I'll pass. I don't think the next pick will be much better than the next few, so I don't think there's enough upside for me.

You better figure out who you are going to pick next

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I think I'll pass. I don't think the next pick will be much better than the next few, so I don't think there's enough upside for me.

You better figure out who you are going to pick next

it depends how you rate the riders and what you are looking for.

I think there are 2 riders now that are better than anything youll get at 24. My leader is Lance Armstrong and Im going for the yellow so Im ok sacrificing a great rider for a very good one since what I need are people who will pull for the undisputed leader.

You have no leader, unless your aim is a fringe top 10 which I know is not your style. Your team is going for stage wins, KOM and battler of the day awards. Isn't a great rider at 19 worth more to you in that case?

 

[Netserk]

I have a couple that are about even, and I am quite sure at least one of them will be there for my next turn.

But I do find it funny that you think Lance can fight for the win while RoboBasso can't. Anyway, neither are among the 4 strongest (Indurain, Riis, Pantani and Ullrich).

 

[The Hitch]

Like I said we rank riders differently, thats why I wondered if anyone wants a trade. For me Lance is quite clearly above Basso considering he beat Basso a few times, quite comfortably, and one of those was less than a year before the 06 Giro. He also beat Ullrich a bunch of times. The year Armstrong retires both these guys suddenly become mega favourites for the TDF and start to look really good. Coincidence? In the case of Basso especially, was 2006 really that much more doped up than the Armstrong years. I don't see it. Ullrich I can kind of understand if you believe he was far more doped up in 1997 than any other year. But even then, are we simply saying that if you allow Ullrich to go to 60% htc but Armstrong only 50 or 55 or whatever, Ullrich would win. Even then Im not so sure considering Armstrong absolutely wiped the floor with Ullrich in tts and mountains for years. And guys in 2000's, especially Armstrong, had more advanced cocktails and doping programmes than the - take as much epo as you can fit into your veins policy others worked with in the EPO formative years.

More to the point I don't think anyone who wasn't a great tter could win. Ullrich Indurain and Armstrong are guys that won tts by over a minute. They are far more likely to win than Basso and Pantani and anyone else who merely did well in them once in a while.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

could you pick already?

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain ('95 TDF)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong ('04 TDF)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich ('97 TDF)
Pick 4: The Green Monkey - Alberto Contador ('09 TDF)
Pick 5: zlev11 - Marco Pantani ('99 Giro)
Pick 6: burning - Bjarne Riis ('96 TDF)
Pick 7: Netserk - Ivan Basso ('06 Giro)
Pick 8: Zam Olyas - Gianni Bugno ('90 Giro)
Pick 9: Tonton - Evgeni Berzin ('94 Giro)
Pick 10: Ciranda - Roberto Heras ('04 Vuelta)

Round 2

Pick 11: Ciranda - Tyler Hamilton ('03 Tour)
Pick 12: Tonton - Chris Froome ('13 Tour)
Pick 13: Zam Olyas - Tony Rominger ('95 Giro)
Pick 14: Netserk - Piotr Ugrumov ('94 Tour)
Pick 15: burning - Richard Virenque ('97 Tour)
Pick 16: zlev11 - Floyd Landis ('06 Tour)
Pick 17: The Green Monkey - Alex Zulle ('95 Tour)
Pick 18: The Sceptic - Santi Perez ('04 Vuelta)
Pick 19: The Hitch -
Pick 20: Libertine Seguros -

 

[Tonton]

Speaking about trades, burning, you know I'm open to suggestions

 

[The Hitch]

After long deliberation, I decided to pick the person everyone kind of wanted to pick since the beginning of the round. What Lance needs is a climber. Doesn't matter if he can't time trial, he can take a rest on tt days. As far as pure climbing goes he's up there with anyone in history, and while he didn't have a long enough career to try every major climb in the sport, when he was at his best, boy was he great. Some extremely fast ascents from his piece de resistance event and of course, the only person in history to "go one on one with The Great One".

Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain ('95 TDF)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong ('04 TDF)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich ('97 TDF)
Pick 4: The Green Monkey - Alberto Contador ('09 TDF)
Pick 5: zlev11 - Marco Pantani ('99 Giro)
Pick 6: burning - Bjarne Riis ('96 TDF)
Pick 7: Netserk - Ivan Basso ('06 Giro)
Pick 8: Zam Olyas - Gianni Bugno ('90 Giro)
Pick 9: Tonton - Evgeni Berzin ('94 Giro)
Pick 10: Ciranda - Roberto Heras ('04 Vuelta)

Round 2

Pick 11: Ciranda - Tyler Hamilton ('03 Tour)
Pick 12: Tonton - Chris Froome ('13 Tour)
Pick 13: Zam Olyas - Tony Rominger ('95 Giro)
Pick 14: Netserk - Piotr Ugrumov ('94 Tour)
Pick 15: burning - Richard Virenque ('97 Tour)
Pick 16: zlev11 - Floyd Landis ('06 Tour)
Pick 17: The Green Monkey - Alex Zulle ('95 Tour)
Pick 18: The Sceptic - Santi Perez ('04 Vuelta)
Pick 19: The Hitch - Chicken (07 TDF)
Pick 20: Libertine Seguros -

Libertine Seguros, you are now on the clock.

 

[Tonton]

Wonderboy plus The Chicken: nice beginning for you The Hitch.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I honestly cannot believe that this one has fallen to #20. I had this as an early round 2, possibly even late round 1.

With the 20th pick of the CN Doping Draft, Equipo Libertine Seguros selects Laurent Jalabert, sprinter-cum-all-rounder, ONCE, at the 1995 Vuelta a España.

After his epic crash in the 1994 Tour de France, Jalabert decided to change his riding style and become an all-rounder. It didn't take him long. At the 1995 Vuelta a España he showed up as part of the stacked ONCE line-up, and promptly took the race apart. The new Jalabert announced himself to the world by attacking solo to pick up the win on Monte Naranco and take the leader's jersey on stage 3. But that's only scratching the surface of his domination of the race. He won five stages, from the more or less rolling Ourense stage, through the hilly Montjuïc stage and the classic Ávila finish, to the high mountains. After Eddy Merckx and Tony Rominger, he became the third - and last to date - rider to win all the major jerseys in a single GT. His dominance was underscored by his biggest mountain triumph; the Luz Ardiden stage in horrendous cold weather over several 1st category and ESP category mountains, a behemoth of a Pyrenean queen stage that should have been far beyond his remit. By this point, Jaja had several minutes' advantage, and so he simply marked everybody until the final kilometre where he strolled away from everybody else like they were standing still.

But it was for a stage before the second rest day that his 1995 Vuelta is best known. Not content with being comfortably the best in freezing rain, Jaja was also the best in 40º heat in the blazing sun of Andalucía. However, when he destroyed the rest of the field on the way to Sierra Nevada, he caught day-long solo breakaway Bert Dietz, who had been away for a thankless distance of over 200km, just 100m from the line. Despite the chasers coming hard from behind, Jalabert knew his lead was large, and he slowed to a total crawl in order to shepherd Dietz to the victory. The moment is recognized as one of the most sporting in the sport's history and only served to further underline Jalabert's supremacy in the race; had he passed the spent German, it would have been just another stage win in a race full of them. As it was, it became a great moment in cycling revered to this day.

So, why Laurent Jalabert in my team? In all honesty, I didn't expect to get him. I know that at true high altitude Jaja often suffered. I know he's good against the clock, but I do not need help against the clock - Big Mig stands alone in that respect. However, if he cracks, I have the benefit of stage opportunities; Jaja's history as a sprinter will always make him dangerous when the others can't drop him, he's dangerous in hilly and intermediate stages, and I have some faith that of the mountain helpers I had on my list, at least somebody will still be available when I next pick.

Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain ('95 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong ('04 Tour)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich ('97 Tour)
Pick 4: The Green Monkey - Alberto Contador ('09 Tour)
Pick 5: zlev11 - Marco Pantani ('99 Giro)
Pick 6: burning - Bjarne Riis ('96 Tour)
Pick 7: Netserk - Ivan Basso ('06 Giro)
Pick 8: Zam Olyas - Gianni Bugno ('90 Giro)
Pick 9: Tonton - Evgeni Berzin ('94 Giro)
Pick 10: Ciranda - Roberto Heras ('04 Vuelta)

Round 2

Pick 11: Ciranda - Tyler Hamilton ('03 Tour)
Pick 12: Tonton - Chris Froome ('13 Tour)
Pick 13: Zam Olyas - Tony Rominger ('95 Giro)
Pick 14: Netserk - Piotr Ugrumov ('94 Tour)
Pick 15: burning - Richard Virenque ('97 Tour)
Pick 16: zlev11 - Floyd Landis ('06 Tour)
Pick 17: The Green Monkey - Alex Zülle ('95 Tour)
Pick 18: The Sceptic - Santi Pérez ('04 Vuelta)
Pick 19: The Hitch - Michael Rasmussen ('07 Tour)
Pick 20: Libertine Seguros - Laurent Jalabert ('95 Vuelta

 

[Tonton]

Nice job Libertine Seguros. Again, I'm falling a few spots short of picking a Frenchman. It's becoming a habit . Here's what I had drafted for him. I skip the first paragraph...

Back to Jaja, who in the early '90s was like a young Slovak: many second places, few wins, fast but not quite fast enough. And then, the drama, at the '94 TdF in Armentieres, the French public horrified sees the crash: even worse, it takes place at "apero" time. Tears fall into the pastis. A bad bad day .

For some unknown reason, miracles in cycling always seem to begin in a healthcare related venue. Wonderboy and Dawg are two examples that come to mind. In Jaja's case, the revelation came as he laid sedated in his hospital bed: he had the vision of a burning syringe writing on his bedroom ceiling the ten commandments of doping:

1. Thou Shall Recite "Cycling Is Great, And Eddy Merckx Is Its Prophet" Every Morning When You Wake Up
2. Thou Shall Go Full *** And Remove Pan Y Agua From Your Diet
3. If Caught, Thou Shall Deny And Ask For A Lawyer. When Asked About The Name Of The Lawyer, Thou Shall not Give The Name Of Your Doctor
4. Thou Shall Support The Cause Through Small Cash Donations To Archbishop Hein Verbruggen
5. Thou Shall Not Judge A Thermos By Its Color
6. When Accused Of Doping, Thou Shall Discredit And/Or Threaten The Critics (And Their Wives)
7. Thou Shall Use The Words "Modern Training Methods" Instead Of "Doping"
8. Thou Shall Lead Our People To The Promise Land Of Tenerife For At Least One Yearly Pilgrimage
9. Last But Not Least: Thou Shall Not Talk To Anyone About This Meeting
10. PS: Never Trust A Doped Kazakh

After a busy off-season, the Jaja Nouveau was out. In 1995 he was the Velo d'Or, #1 UCI rider, with wins in Paris Nice, MSR, the Criterium International, the Volta A Catalunya, and the Fleche Wallone. Jalabert also finished 4th overall and won the green jersey at the TdF, before lining up at the Vuelta A Espana in September.

The argument could be made that some of his '97 or '99 performances were more impressive than his show at the '95 Vuelta, where the field was not the strongest (preemptive strike against hrotha ). In reality, Jalabert so dominated the race that he could even afford to launch his "Adopt A Fellow Doper" charity.

https://youtu.be/bv3GSZM-4JQ

"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?"