The logic pretzels some are willing to twist themselves into never cease to amaze...
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You're assuming you know the theraputic need of Froome's asthma in one season at Barloworld when not competing to win races. Nobody knows what it was in 2009. My wife has asthma, she has had periods of high stress and required Salbutomol every race. She's has periods where she hasn't needed the inhaler at all for months. All I'm saying is theraputic need is not known to be a constant and simply not knowing what it was for Froome because he hasn't a TUE, doesn't mean he hasn't had asthma as he states all his life. My wife would say she's has asthma all her life, but she hasn't used an inhaler for several years now, but she still carries her inhaler with her and has it besides her bed. Nobody at her work would know she has asthma, it's just not a topic.
It's like Wiggins asthma. Nobody believes he suffered from it from allergies and so assumed he doesn't have it, then Fancybears show he's had TUEs for it going all the way back to his time at FdeJ and before that with IOC. Do some research and he was on the cover of Asthma UK magazine in 2004. Nobody knew he has asthma unless you were at a track and seen him use his inhaler, he didn;t mention it, because like my wife, it's probably just not an issue.
It's like Wiggins asthma. Nobody believes he suffered from it from allergies and so assumed he doesn't have it, then Fancybears show he's had TUEs for it going all the way back to his time at FdeJ and before that with IOC. Do some research and he was on the cover of Asthma UK magazine in 2004. Nobody knew he has asthma unless you were at a track and seen him use his inhaler, he didn;t mention it, because like my wife, it's probably just not an issue.
Why does she carry the inhaler with her? Because she might need it, and can't predict when. Why would you get a TUE? Because you might need it, and don't know when.
It was enough of an issue to get three TUEs that would cover him in the 2009 season.
Like Froome, Wiggins wrote a book about his racing, in which he never mentioned asthma. Given how his own later statements revealed that he had a desperate need for certain medications, that is quite curious.
If a rider has some medical condition that can be treated without substances that are known or thought to be performance-enhancing, then that is his business, and maybe he doesn't want to talk about it. But when you are a TDF winner, and writing a book about how remarkable and inspiring your life has been, and you have a condition that is treated with a drug that is potentially performance enhancing, how can you not mention this?
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would your wife lose her job, damage the reputation of her colleagues and her profession and get worldwide press coverage for just not bothering? lols You're great btw...please coninue
What are you on about?would your wife lose her job, damage the reputation of her colleagues and her profession and get worldwide press coverage for just not bothering? lols You're great btw...please coninue
My wife carries an inhaler, because she once ended up in hospital from an allergic reaction to something we don't know wha,t as tests were inconclusive, but it triggered a really bad asthma attack & she didn't have an inhaler with her because she only used to use it when running and we lived in the city. 15 years later out of the city in the country again, it's simply precautionary in case she has an allergic reaction again and triggers an asthma attack.
As for Froomes prednisolone TUES you have no medical justification with each one because Fancy Bears omitted it. From what I remember, it was dealing with a chest infection that was triggering his asthma. Seems pretty acceptable to use a TUE for that to carry on racing to me?
AS for him announcing it. Has Nibali, Uran or Dumoulin made a big song and dance making sure everyone knows they have or have had Asthma? We know Freeman applied for a TUE for Uran for his asthma being triggered in 2011, it's part of sport and good medical care, I have zero issue with it.
Nibali and Dumoulin don't have asthma. Uran got asthma when he went to Sky.
Dumoulin said he used to have asthma and takes salbutomol earlier in his career. He also said he would have no hesitation in using a TUE if it returned to being an issue for him again during Froomegate.
Nibali uses an inhaler, I've seen him using it lol! He explains here:
cycling.today
Have you evidence Uran's asthma began at Sky?
Nibali uses an inhaler, I've seen him using it lol! He explains here:
Vincenzo Nibali: I have the same problem with asthma | Cycling Today Official
Vincenzo Nibali, second in the 2017 Vuelta, has reacted to the news that Chris Froome has returned an Adverse Analytical Finding for Salbutamol during the Spanish Grand Tour. “I read the news and the reaction of Chris and his team. It’s too early to express a thought,” he told Tuttobiciweb...
cycling.today
Have you evidence Uran's asthma began at Sky?
So amazing the number of asthmatics in the pro peloton. Must be 10x the general population. Must be from riding through all those flowers every year....
Nibali has problems with pollen and doesn't need ventolin when it rains so rarely needs or uses it in the giro or a wet vuelta like the one in question.
Dumo doesn't have exercise induced asthma (lol) anymore. You can check the records on Uran and please try to be objective, Sam, it would be a breath of fresh air.
Dumo doesn't have exercise induced asthma (lol) anymore. You can check the records on Uran and please try to be objective, Sam, it would be a breath of fresh air.
Sounds like Nibali has a similar asthma issue to Wiggins and allergy-triggered. Can deal with it without Salbutomol on wet days, same as any asthmatic with pollen allergies can.
I bet you ask 10 cycling fans does Nibali have asthma, they won't know he does. Same for Dumoulin's history saying he had it in the past but grew out of it..
I bet you ask 10 cycling fans does Nibali have asthma, they won't know he does. Same for Dumoulin's history saying he had it in the past but grew out of it..
Froome Wiggins, Sky. Jiffy bag, Tues, Aaf, lying doctors and coaches. That's on the record.
We can guess about the rest and guess about other riders but we don't know for sure.
We can guess about the rest and guess about other riders but we don't know for sure.
Quite a few athletes escaped Fancy Bears and all the TUEs they did hack, they removed all the medical justification, or left it on ADAMS, so I wouldn't use them to try and know anything about anyone by filling the gaps with speculation and anecdote. Without the medical notes, it's just a certificate without any context imo.
I know the hope never dies, but those won´t turn into blood bags and epo overnight, for as strong as hope is.
you forgot viagra and ketones
lying doctors and coaches. yep, there´s some in every team
Hi Red. No disrespect, but most of your opinions seem to grow out of ignorance. Let me help you.
Exercise-induced bronchoconstriction - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
(I think you mean not comprehensive).
No, that isn't the entirety of what I know. It's one piece of evidence. It's not proof, but it is evidence. Just as Froome's urine level wasn't considered proof that he took a non-legal dose, but was evidence. Which is why it had to be followed up, by anyone to whom it actually mattered whether he was clean.
And when we follow up the FB evidence (those of us, unlike you and Sam, who believe possible discrepancies should be followed up), we also learn that Froome said he never had any TUEs prior to 2013. That is much stronger evidence that he didn't have a TUE in 2009, as the only likely alternative is that he was lying. You and Sam keep ignoring your hero's own words.
How many books have they written? Books that actually sold a few copies?
Quite a few athletes escaped WADA positive tests and sanctions, they removed all the exculpatory evidence, or left it with a few researchers, so I wouldn't use them to try and (sic) know anything about anyone by filling the gaps with speculation and anecdote.
You’re always good for a laugh. Thank you.Hi Red. No disrespect, but most of your opinions seem to grow out of ignorance. Let me help you.
Exercise-induced bronchoconstriction - Wikipedia
For all this talk of proof and lack there of showing they are clean, the only way Sky and Froome are going to go down (if they are doping) is the USPS and Armstrong route. Before the ruling, the vast majority thought USPS and Armstrong was clean. But that proof only happened because Armstrong was a *** to everyone, unretired, and pissed Landis off. Without those Armstrong would still be clean in the majorities eyes. Froome and Sky don't seem as egotistic as Armstrong and USPS in my opinion.
Now if there was a button that revealed all there was about Froome and Sky, I would think the one's that were claiming they are doping would be happier than the fans of him and the team. The doping crowd wants proof and they would have gotten it either outcome but would have to swallow their pride about being wrong. The fans on the other hand would be elated they were right this whole time or devastated that they were lied too. Now of course there will be a small sum on each side that this doesn't apply too.
Froome doesn't have to release his personal health information to the public. but what he has released has had discrepancies that can't be written off as forgetting a piece of information. All this proof of doping that his defenders want will most likely never happen because either they were clean and legit or he and Sky have an Armstrong and USPS fall from grace.
Now if there was a button that revealed all there was about Froome and Sky, I would think the one's that were claiming they are doping would be happier than the fans of him and the team. The doping crowd wants proof and they would have gotten it either outcome but would have to swallow their pride about being wrong. The fans on the other hand would be elated they were right this whole time or devastated that they were lied too. Now of course there will be a small sum on each side that this doesn't apply too.
Froome doesn't have to release his personal health information to the public. but what he has released has had discrepancies that can't be written off as forgetting a piece of information. All this proof of doping that his defenders want will most likely never happen because either they were clean and legit or he and Sky have an Armstrong and USPS fall from grace.
It's all about PR management. With the data release Froome and Sky weren't trying to change the minds of people in the Clinic. Much like Trump and the MAGA crowd, Sky were playing to their fans, not their detractors.
This.
It is easy to forget that 'The Clinic' is a puny place as far as population is concerned.
Just realized this metaphor doesn’t work for Rugby or American football fans
When I heard it I thought of taking man and ball in rugby and Gaelic games which receives high praiseJust realized this metaphor doesn’t work for Rugby or American football fans
I wouldn't use the word 'puny', I'd use the word 'unknown'.
Its a highly niche forum, with niche issues discussed in great depth and great detail. Some of the posting is highly informed, some isn't. The encyclopaedic knowledge of some posters is quite impressive.
Yes, some people jump to conclusions, and there is a tendency towards confirmation bias and a somewhat prismatic view of everything, but within all of this is some real knowledge and quality.
The one thing I do know about the British public is that they are just like everyone else...they don't know much about niche issues like the underlying problems with Team Sky.
But...if it comes up in conversation, despite some of the more frantic anti-British rhetoric on here, my experience is that they are very open and interested, and not anywhere near as dogmatically nationalistic as a few clinic posters would have you believe
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