Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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The Hegelian said:
mrhender said:
Another noteworthy thing, for me at least. Is how Froome in his first win had to declare cleanliness on the podium in Paris, but as years go by. People come to accept the absurdity of his transformation as his regular wins in TDF almost make him more legit.. Ha..

Yeah, it does work like that.

Somewhat like fascism - or indeed any political system or structure. At first there's shock, outrage and disbelief. Then it becomes normalised, then it becomes the very fabric of reality and people can't even imagine anything different.

I think a lot people in the media have just realized how pointless it is to question Froome/DB/Sky. Look at how they responded to criticism this tour. In 2013 and 15 you had incredible performances which had to be explained. There hasn't been too much too really hammer Froomey on. What could you say? "Please answer the questions that you've answered for the last 5 years again?" Wait til something new comes out, then (hopefully) the media will give them a proper interrogation.
 
Aug 19, 2009
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mrhender said:
Another noteworthy thing, for me at least. Is how Froome in his first win had to declare cleanliness on the podium in Paris, but as years go by. People come to accept the absurdity of his transformation as his regular wins in TDF almost make him more legit.. Ha..

Post-2015, he seems to have controlled the urge to go full genius. In 2017 he couldn't seem to string 2 good days of racing in a row until the Dauphine.

And since the 2015 physiological testing, he appears less engaged trying to sell himself as being clean. I would imagine he had limited returns on that investment, as I don't think many who did doubt him would have been convince of his cleanliness by any of his efforts.

He seems to have gone with the tried and true practice of not drawing attention to himself. And that approach seems to be working.
 
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Bag_O_Wallet said:
mrhender said:
Another noteworthy thing, for me at least. Is how Froome in his first win had to declare cleanliness on the podium in Paris, but as years go by. People come to accept the absurdity of his transformation as his regular wins in TDF almost make him more legit.. Ha..

Post-2015, he seems to have controlled the urge to go full genius. In 2017 he couldn't seem to string 2 good days of racing in a row until the Dauphine.

And since the 2015 physiological testing, he appears less engaged trying to sell himself as being clean. I would imagine he had limited returns on that investment, as I don't think many who did doubt him would have been convince of his cleanliness by any of his efforts.

He seems to have gone with the tried and true practice of not drawing attention to himself. And that approach seems to be working.


He has become completely beige. Not interesting, not boring just a nothing. The Tour is much the same. Froome doesn't sell being clean or not clean in fact Sky didn't really even talk talk to the media much just issued press statements, it was a Tour without any colour. Hard to feel any emotion about one way or the other.
 
Which is actually the smart way to go about things. Riding extremely conservatively like he has done in the last two years, except the downhill attack and crosswind attack last year, of course, has seemed to reduce the amount of doping accusations compared to 2012-2015. Sky as a team are neutralizing the race all the way to the end, rather than pulling Froome to the last mountain and unleashing him. Since he knows he will crush everyone close to him in he GC in the TTs he just has to sit on the wheel of whoever is putting pressure on him in the mountains. There's been plenty of occasion in the last couple of TdFs where it looked like Froome had far more gas in the tank, but chose to ride conservatively.

When he had a flat after AG2R had started putting the hammer down he managed to drag back a 40 second deficit on less than one cat. 1 climb, despite AG2R riding at a consistently high pace. He also had enough in him to respond to an attack after he'd regrouped. On Izoard he rode away from Bardet and Uran with ease and created a huge gap in a matter of seconds, but looked to ease off as soon as he'd gotten onto the back of Landa. Last year he consistently followed the attacks of the other favorites and never actually dropped time to his rvals in the mountains, except for a few seconds lost to Bardet at the very end when the race was already wrapped up. Up until stage 19 he was the only rider in the top 10 who had not lost time to any of the other top 10s in the mountains, somewhat helped by the officials on the Ventoux stage, obviously. He's still the best climber and time trialist of the GC contenders by a mile when he shows up in France. He's just way better at hiding it, and he doesn't clean up other stage races during the season. Instead he grabs his Tour win and calls it a day, Lance style. Now, if he grabs the Vuelta this year there's going to be fireworks coming against him from his doubters, so I hope he's dumb enough to do it.

Staying out of the media, both during the TdF and otherwise, also reduces the negative attention towards him, because even when he does physiological testing to prove how squeaky clean he is the only thing he accomplishes is more doping accusations, because the part of the audience that saw his 2011 transformation and knows what something like that means in the sport of cycling will never believe him anyway. Especially when his attempts to prove his cleanliness are half-arsed at best. It's been almost six years since he went E.T. Mode and Sky have released almost no power files, blood values or anything else that stands up to scientific scrutiny and is of any value to anyone trying to prove Froome is clean.

My guess is that any relevant data would probably prove the exact opposite, so they can't release it. In that case it's better to just shut up and generate as little media attention as possible rather than stringing people along in the limelight until they start criticizing again.
 
If it makes you feel any better the majority of the general population believe that cycling is a joke sport filled with doping.
Of course, similar logic is not used to discredit football/basketball/baseball/etc.
At the end of the day, "suspension of disbelief" applies when it comes to corruption and drug use, and that is what allows fans to enjoy top-level sports.
 
Aug 19, 2009
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Saint Unix said:
Which is actually the smart way to go about things. Riding extremely conservatively like he has done in the last two years, except the downhill attack and crosswind attack last year, of course, has seemed to reduce the amount of doping accusations compared to 2012-2015. Sky as a team are neutralizing the race all the way to the end, rather than pulling Froome to the last mountain and unleashing him. Since he knows he will crush everyone close to him in he GC in the TTs he just has to sit on the wheel of whoever is putting pressure on him in the mountains. There's been plenty of occasion in the last couple of TdFs where it looked like Froome had far more gas in the tank, but chose to ride conservatively.

When he had a flat after AG2R had started putting the hammer down he managed to drag back a 40 second deficit on less than one cat. 1 climb, despite AG2R riding at a consistently high pace. He also had enough in him to respond to an attack after he'd regrouped. On Izoard he rode away from Bardet and Uran with ease and created a huge gap in a matter of seconds, but looked to ease off as soon as he'd gotten onto the back of Landa. Last year he consistently followed the attacks of the other favorites and never actually dropped time to his rvals in the mountains, except for a few seconds lost to Bardet at the very end when the race was already wrapped up. Up until stage 19 he was the only rider in the top 10 who had not lost time to any of the other top 10s in the mountains, somewhat helped by the officials on the Ventoux stage, obviously. He's still the best climber and time trialist of the GC contenders by a mile when he shows up in France. He's just way better at hiding it, and he doesn't clean up other stage races during the season. Instead he grabs his Tour win and calls it a day, Lance style. Now, if he grabs the Vuelta this year there's going to be fireworks coming against him from his doubters, so I hope he's dumb enough to do it.

Staying out of the media, both during the TdF and otherwise, also reduces the negative attention towards him, because even when he does physiological testing to prove how squeaky clean he is the only thing he accomplishes is more doping accusations, because the part of the audience that saw his 2011 transformation and knows what something like that means in the sport of cycling will never believe him anyway. Especially when his attempts to prove his cleanliness are half-arsed at best. It's been almost six years since he went E.T. Mode and Sky have released almost no power files, blood values or anything else that stands up to scientific scrutiny and is of any value to anyone trying to prove Froome is clean.

My guess is that any relevant data would probably prove the exact opposite, so they can't release it. In that case it's better to just shut up and generate as little media attention as possible rather than stringing people along in the limelight until they start criticizing again.

This is inline with my observations of the race this year. I don't think there was any real point where he was in danger, but his riding style has always made it hard to tell if his legs are going to fall off, or if he's going to make the most blistering attack ever witnessed in the sport.

At the start of the season, I was of the belief that Froome would need 5 Tour wins and at least one other Grand Tour victory to sell the mythology that he's the most remarkable bike racer ever. All the races prior to the Dauphine really challenged this notion, but watching him at the Tour I think he'll show up to the Vuelta, and be able to do what he needs to do to win with a similar conservative margin.
 
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.
 
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The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.
well if he is to get the coveted Tour + Vuelta double
he had to play it low effort during the tour.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/40738725
 
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The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.
 
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red_flanders said:
The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.
Which editions? I doubt it, but I won't exclude it. I can see one making a case for it last year.
 
Aug 19, 2009
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red_flanders said:
The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.

Many thanks for the feedback. If I get a chance to rewatch, I'll try to view with this in mind.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
red_flanders said:
The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.
Which editions? I doubt it, but I won't exclude it. I can see one making a case for it last year.

Don't recall, I'd have to look. I just remember watching and thinking he was holding a ton back based on the way he was riding.
 
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red_flanders said:
The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.

I'm sure it's happened many a time too - and not just with Froome. I think Armstrong could have won by more on many occasions. But this year? Just implausible.
 
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The Hegelian said:
red_flanders said:
The Hegelian said:
I find it completely implausible that Froome had the legs to take good time in the mountains, but chose not to in order to avoid drawing attention to himself.

The counter argument for this tdf is unimpeachable: do you really think Sky + Froome would have controlled and calculated such a small margin before the final tt? I mean, one puncture, mechanical or crash and he loses the tour. They're not idiots. They wanted more of a buffer and tried pretty hard to get one - Froome didn't have the legs.

I don't think that happened in this Tour either. I absolutely think it's happened in past editions. Just not on the same form this year, clearly.

I'm sure it's happened many a time too - and not just with Froome. I think Armstrong could have won by more on many occasions. But this year? Just implausible.

Hard to make that case for 2013 and 2015 too. On the ropes relatively speaking in the final week defending time from Quintana.

2016 and this year looked a lot more tactical and calculating, making excellent use of his team and taking chances in unexpected places.

For whatever reason they've altered the 2013/15 template to a less flashy but more robust option. Perhaps they don't think he's capable of the big early hit any longer while still being able to defend for another fortnight.
 
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2016 and this year looked a lot more tactical and calculating, making excellent use of his team and taking chances in unexpected places.

For whatever reason they've altered the 2013/15 template to a less flashy but more robust option. Perhaps they don't think he's capable of the big early hit any longer while still being able to defend for another fortnight.

Froome and Sky have said they see this TdF differently as just part one of the TdF/Vuelta double. Quintana's performance after doing the Giro was probably seen by management as justification of using the scaled back tactic. Getting the team to such an impressive standard as was seen at TdF might be the biggest problem. I would expect that Sky hope that all possible GC threats are not at 100%.
 
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Gung Ho Gun said:
I wouldn't say he was on the ropes in 2013; he still won that Tour by more than 4 minutes and only lost 1:30 in the last 2 mountain stages.
And most of that loss was due to him forgetting to eat on Alpe d'Huez. His performances on Ax-3-Domaines, Ventoux and the two TTs remain the most dominant displays of superior power I've seen in a GT since Contador in '09.