Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[thehog]

First world problems of a Monaco resident

Interesting Froome comments on financial advantage Team Sky might have: "To take that away, it’s almost as if we are becoming communists"

 

[Angliru]

I will never watch another Tour or Vuelta etc that has the Dawg in. His sucked the life out racing for me. It's a bigger circus than Armstrong and that takes some beating.

I cannot though see a day where the truth will come out with him.

I can't watch either. It is just so depressing.

If Cookson loses the election you might see a change but that is unlikely to occur...

Too many folk are making too much money for that to happen. The circus will continue and I will drift further and further away from watching the sport. Means more time to ride my bike. That's a plus.

 

[bebellion2]

Any team above a certain budget could hire the best scientist to improve their program. There's probably one such mastermind at Sky but surely he/she isn't the only one living, if you pay them well they'll come. The only reason I can think of why this is not happening is that it's in noone's interest to do so as the viewers are still watching and growing in numbers. It's not even a team sport so you don't have to buy all the best riders just one, if you're strong then you can go with the Sky train just like Froome does. Cycling was never the smart people's sport so if you accidentally find someone who has that you can outdo everyone else.

 

[mrhender]

Re:

Any team above a certain budget could hire the best scientist to improve their program. There's probably one such mastermind at Sky but surely he/she isn't the only one living, if you pay them well they'll come. The only reason I can think of why this is not happening is that it's in noone's interest to do so as the viewers are still watching and growing in numbers. It's not even a team sport so you don't have to buy all the best riders just one, if you're strong then you can go with the Sky train just like Froome does. Cycling was never the smart people's sport so if you accidentally find someone who has that you can outdo everyone else.

Bermon comes to mind

 

[ontheroad]

Sky's dominance can be linked to Cookson's reign as presidency. The only way this will end anytime soon is if Cookson loses the election. Most public commentary bar Jamie Fuller has been very negative around Cookson's reign but who knows who he has buttered up within UCI circles to help him win the election.

 

[mrhender]

Re:

Sky's dominance can be linked to Cookson's reign as presidency. The only way this will end anytime soon is if Cookson loses the election. Most public commentary bar Jamie Fuller has been very negative around Cookson's reign but who knows who he has buttered up within UCI circles to help him win the election.

I went to Cooksons website to see what he was up too these days.

He plastered his website with his massive accomplishments - and amazing re-election endorsements from third world countries etc.

I do think Cookson is just a third arm for SKY/BC (they are all the same)
And with All the money and influence from Murdoch they are untouchable.

As for Froome, he is kind of the brick that didn't fit the puzzle (not very british, or loved).
Nor was he hyped before the breakthrough, as he sucked.
Funny thing if you go back read the interviews from 2011 it almost seemed like DB was ready to settle with being average performance wise.

Then came Froome, and suddenly it was the hard work DB did finally paying off. (everything according to the plan).

It's the most ridiculous story ever to unfold. And were talking cycling lol.

 

[bebellion2]

Re:

Sky's dominance can be linked to Cookson's reign as presidency.

Yes but isn't the market dictates who will be president/winning team? I like the UK Postal analogy because after the US market got saturated they needed to find a new place to sell. And if you have another strong team who just beats yours on a 50-50 basis then you can't say anymore that it's 'the best team in the world' meaning you'll sell much less than your 50 percent share. Market increases are best done on an exponential basis, there is no such thing as slow growth today so you have to have a world beater for at least 5 years straight, which is strangely the same number of years that a talented rider has at their very peak. This is why it HAS to be so boring, excitement is sort of emulated by letting the opponents close but never too close. The race is in our minds, not on the road.

 

[Lyon]

There will come a time when we look back at the Froome/Sky era and remember it fondly. Just imagine what will replace it and you will be halfway there already.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

There will come a time when we look back at the Froome/Sky era and remember it fondly. Just imagine what will replace it and you will be halfway there already.

Speak for yourself. I'm not enjoying it now, haven't enjoyed it since their reign began, and certainly will not be perusing youtube footage of it in the future. What exactly will be the draw to revisit this era of ungainly climbing, stage racing action numbing dominance? I can see British fans reveling in this era and wanting to see it repeatedly in the future but personally cannot see what the draw would be for other fans.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

There will come a time when we look back at the Froome/Sky era and remember it fondly. Just imagine what will replace it and you will be halfway there already.

Whatever replaces it, it can hardly be worse.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I heard Chaves using the word "unbelievable" regarding Froomey immediately after today's stage.

I think we all know what that means in cycling code.

It was the same word Greg LeMond used to describe Armstrong's first TdF win and even Sean Kelly yesterday described the Sky man's high-cadence climbing style as "unbelievable."

Don't get me wrong though, I still enjoy watching the spectacle and am a Froome fan.

I just see whatever advantage anyone can take as part and parcel of competitive cycling.

Always has been, still is and always will be.

Chaves also called his own team unbelievable

 

[bebellion2]

Re: Re:

cannot see what the draw would be for other fans.

Entertainment value? I just watch this instead of TV series or films, it requires the same suspension of disbelief. If I want reality I go out for a ride and hope I don't bump into a pro who even without doping goes up with twice the speed on the hill. It is hopeless to measure against those genetic freaks so they're much better seen on the telly. Just yesterday I had to overtake a huge guy on the flat because he was winding down, he probably thought that I'm so proud of myself and had his laugh.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I don't know why Sky fans / apologists always get into 'other riders are doping too'. I don't think there are many on here who are naive about the sport they are watching. But there is something different about Sky - it goes beyond greed into insatiate rapacity. The BS, the cash-in books, the flagrant lies, the absurd transformations of doms into contenders; the performances which defy reason and logic, even the awful 'Porte-a-cabins' and 'Hubs'. It's not just winning, its the need to dominate on all fronts. I find it truly abhorrent. It's the same quality that Armstrong had - whatever he did, it wasn't enough, and ultimately, it led to his downfall. I can only hope that this will end the same way, but I fear not - IMO, the crux of the matter is that SDB knows where the 2012 olympic games bodies are buried, and no one really wants to go there.

All this makes me wonder exactly what Sky's agenda is for the sport, it's more than just being the only real winning team in cycling. Now, with what seems that the UKAD report has been quietly put in the bottom drawer, there is no real obstacle to stop the team from spinning whatever sound bites they wish to justify their"unbelievable" performances, however they are obtaining them, along with probable UCI collusion.
Say they win every Grand Tour and many of the one day classics, what happens... most people will just switch off, when every second shot is that of SKY massed at the front and everyone else going backwards.. It's killing the sport, period.. Is there a end game the Murdochs have..? I just can't figure out what SKY, the management or the owners are up to...

Dominating market shares and dynamizing corporate egos. The problem with all of this is that the techincal and economic considerations have taken over to such a degree, that it's killed even any modicum of the remnants of a human side to not only the sport, but the athletes themesleves.

Before it was an arms race between more or less equal market shareholders. Now its become about one dominant market hegemon, which is dragging the rest of the sport down with it, just as it is dictating the movement's business agenda and the racing outcomes it presupposes.

I find this an interesting question, actually. I think it is just comes down to realising / capitalising the inherent value of the brand built up over decades before. Short term investors don't give a toss what state they leave their investment in for the long haul, so long as they get out in time. I foresee Sky leaving the sport in the medium term, once they've benefited the most from the growth in the UK. They'll move on to the next thing and the sport will find itself in a pretty sorry place for a while, IMO.

But I do think there's a big ego thing here, too. I think what might have started as a rather simple ambition - UK tour winner, etc. has kind of got out of hand. You can see it in SDB's rather Blair-like messianic self-belief. The high handed treatment of the press at the TdF, all the Porte-a-cabin type stuff. That kind of ego needs more and more to feed it and becomes very destructive as a result.

One thing I am very curious about is to see how they try and capture perhaps the one thing that has eluded them thus far: widespread popularity. They've played the 'nationalism' card and 'picked on by foreign fans' stuff, but I bet it sticks in the craw that for all their wins, they are not widely liked. After the Contador love-in this Vuelta, I foresee perhaps a different Froome narrative spin; a different PR in the next few years to try and capture the public's imagination a bit more. I hope they fail.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

I don't know why Sky fans / apologists always get into 'other riders are doping too'. I don't think there are many on here who are naive about the sport they are watching. But there is something different about Sky - it goes beyond greed into insatiate rapacity. The BS, the cash-in books, the flagrant lies, the absurd transformations of doms into contenders; the performances which defy reason and logic, even the awful 'Porte-a-cabins' and 'Hubs'. It's not just winning, its the need to dominate on all fronts. I find it truly abhorrent. It's the same quality that Armstrong had - whatever he did, it wasn't enough, and ultimately, it led to his downfall. I can only hope that this will end the same way, but I fear not - IMO, the crux of the matter is that SDB knows where the 2012 olympic games bodies are buried, and no one really wants to go there.

All this makes me wonder exactly what Sky's agenda is for the sport, it's more than just being the only real winning team in cycling. Now, with what seems that the UKAD report has been quietly put in the bottom drawer, there is no real obstacle to stop the team from spinning whatever sound bites they wish to justify their"unbelievable" performances, however they are obtaining them, along with probable UCI collusion.
Say they win every Grand Tour and many of the one day classics, what happens... most people will just switch off, when every second shot is that of SKY massed at the front and everyone else going backwards.. It's killing the sport, period.. Is there a end game the Murdochs have..? I just can't figure out what SKY, the management or the owners are up to...

Dominating market shares and dynamizing corporate egos. The problem with all of this is that the techincal and economic considerations have taken over to such a degree, that it's killed even any modicum of the remnants of a human side to not only the sport, but the athletes themesleves.

Before it was an arms race between more or less equal market shareholders. Now its become about one dominant market hegemon, which is dragging the rest of the sport down with it, just as it is dictating the movement's business agenda and the racing outcomes it presupposes.

I find this an interesting question, actually. I think it is just comes down to realising / capitalising the inherent value of the brand built up over decades before. Short term investors don't give a toss what state they leave their investment in for the long haul, so long as they get out in time. I foresee Sky leaving the sport in the medium term, once they've benefited the most from the growth in the UK. They'll move on to the next thing and the sport will find itself in a pretty sorry place for a while, IMO.

But I do think there's a big ego thing here, too. I think what might have started as a rather simple ambition - UK tour winner, etc. has kind of got out of hand. You can see it in SDB's rather Blair-like messianic self-belief. The high handed treatment of the press at the TdF, all the Porte-a-cabin type stuff. That kind of ego needs more and more to feed it and becomes very destructive as a result.

One thing I am very curious about is to see how they try and capture perhaps the one thing that has eluded them thus far: widespread popularity. They've played the 'nationalism' card and 'picked on by foreign fans' stuff, but I bet it sticks in the craw that for all their wins, they are not widely liked. After the Contador love-in this Vuelta, I foresee perhaps a different Froome narrative spin; a different PR in the next few years to try and capture the public's imagination a bit more. I hope they fail.

Watching the sign-ins at the Vuelta (thanks for posting it people) gives an idea of the Bertie love-in, and the lack of interest/respect for multiple Tour winner Dawg.

 

[Rollthedice]

“We’re going very strongly and in the bunch, nobody is talking about anything else,” Nibali said. “Besides, the computers don’t lie. We’re flying.”
And then Dawg motors away from all.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Watching the sign-ins at the Vuelta (thanks for posting it people) gives an idea of the Bertie love-in, and the lack of interest/respect for multiple Tour winner Dawg.

I don't think Froome cares too much about fan worship.

I think he has a goal, as i already mentioned, to get 5 TdFs, a Giro and a Vuelta. If he goes for some monuments too that won't surprise me, But he aint doing it for hero worship. I guess he plans to retire to SA anyway.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Watching the sign-ins at the Vuelta (thanks for posting it people) gives an idea of the Bertie love-in, and the lack of interest/respect for multiple Tour winner Dawg.

I don't think Froome cares too much about fan worship.

I think he has a goal, as i already mentioned, to get 5 TdFs, a Giro and a Vuelta. If he goes for some monuments too that won't surprise me, But he aint doing it for hero worship. I guess he plans to retire to SA anyway.

Oh, I think he does. At least, he will want what he believes is 'due respect' for his achievements. I don't think there are many folks, let alone champions, who like achieving the heights only to be ignored.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Watching the sign-ins at the Vuelta (thanks for posting it people) gives an idea of the Bertie love-in, and the lack of interest/respect for multiple Tour winner Dawg.

I don't think Froome cares too much about fan worship.

I think he has a goal, as i already mentioned, to get 5 TdFs, a Giro and a Vuelta. If he goes for some monuments too that won't surprise me, But he aint doing it for hero worship. I guess he plans to retire to SA anyway.

Oh, I think he does. At least, he will want what he believes is 'due respect' for his achievements. I don't think there are many folks, let alone champions, who like achieving the heights only to be ignored.

Froome aint stupid. The Froome's read this forum and will know what fans think. Froome might hope to get the respect of the Vino's, Riis, Armstrong's, Merckx's etc and no doubt he will, but he knows cycling fans are not going to give 'the alien' any respect or kudos.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Watching the sign-ins at the Vuelta (thanks for posting it people) gives an idea of the Bertie love-in, and the lack of interest/respect for multiple Tour winner Dawg.

I don't think Froome cares too much about fan worship.

I think he has a goal, as i already mentioned, to get 5 TdFs, a Giro and a Vuelta. If he goes for some monuments too that won't surprise me, But he aint doing it for hero worship. I guess he plans to retire to SA anyway.

I think this, maybe a WCITT victory and possibly a GdL although I don't think he has it in him. That'll take him past Indurain, Gimondi, Nibali and Contador on the "all-time chat" lists for best modern GT winner and behind the big 3/5 in GOAT.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I heard Chaves using the word "unbelievable" regarding Froomey immediately after today's stage.

I think we all know what that means in cycling code.

It was the same word Greg LeMond used to describe Armstrong's first TdF win and even Sean Kelly yesterday described the Sky man's high-cadence climbing style as "unbelievable."

Don't get me wrong though, I still enjoy watching the spectacle and am a Froome fan.

I just see whatever advantage anyone can take as part and parcel of competitive cycling.

Always has been, still is and always will be.

Chaves also called his own team unbelievable

And I'm sure it was in the same context :lol:

 

[shalgo]

Re: Re:

I heard Chaves using the word "unbelievable" regarding Froomey immediately after today's stage.

I think we all know what that means in cycling code.

It was the same word Greg LeMond used to describe Armstrong's first TdF win and even Sean Kelly yesterday described the Sky man's high-cadence climbing style as "unbelievable."

Don't get me wrong though, I still enjoy watching the spectacle and am a Froome fan.

I just see whatever advantage anyone can take as part and parcel of competitive cycling.

Always has been, still is and always will be.

Chaves also called his own team unbelievable

And I'm sure it was in the same context :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Vl7FJuiNo

 

[Singer01]

I have nothing to add on the current performance of CF, however can we agree that the angsty emo 'i'm done with cycling' is pathetic in the extreme, if you are done with it, have the courage of your convictions and go away. What a load of melodrama over men riding bikes.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I have nothing to add on the current performance of CF, however can we agree that the angsty emo 'i'm done with cycling' is pathetic in the extreme, if you are done with it, have the courage of your convictions and go away. What a load of melodrama over men riding bikes.

Can we agree that Froome and Brailsfraud are serial liars?

Or are you in denial about that one too?

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re:

I have nothing to add on the current performance of CF, however can we agree that the angsty emo 'i'm done with cycling' is pathetic in the extreme, if you are done with it, have the courage of your convictions and go away. What a load of melodrama over men riding bikes.

Yes. My doper is more talented than your doper but yet he gets beaten up by your doper. So pro cycling is broken and I won't follow it anymore :lol:

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

I have nothing to add on the current performance of CF, however can we agree that the angsty emo 'i'm done with cycling' is pathetic in the extreme, if you are done with it, have the courage of your convictions and go away. What a load of melodrama over men riding bikes.

Can we agree that Froome and Brailsfraud are serial liars?

Or are you in denial about that one too?

I have my suspicions, but i'm not as convinced as many on here. I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it.