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G.I. JOEEEEEE! [Tsunami of USADA cases against cyclists]

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stephens said:
I've always been a fan of leaving the policing to the police, so to speak, with everybody not a cop just staying the F*&# out of it. It just upsets the balance of power when crooks start helping.

Kind of begs the question why the "police" so often utilize informants, and why they provide incentives to the crooks to "start helping"...
 
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stephens said:
The whole thing is just so sordid. Of course those who were cheating have no right to expect they'll get away with it in the end or anything and i'm glad they will be punished, but...the concept of them being found out only because some other guy was dumb enough to get caught and then to save his own *** started singing...that's just, not cool. I've always been a fan of leaving the policing to the police, so to speak, with everybody not a cop just staying the F*&# out of it. It just upsets the balance of power when crooks start helping.

:eek: That is a funny post.

You make is sound as if Joe is some renegade bounty hunter out solving crimes and busting perps without the cops help.

We get it, you are in the "No Snitching" crowd. Tell us, When is it OK to tell the truth to the Police? Should you always lie to them or is there any time that giving them info is ok?
 
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Race Radio said:
You make is sound as if Joe is some renegade bounty hunter out solving crimes and busting perps without the cops help.

No, not at all. He is nowhere near that righteous. What he is is a guy that was worse than those he informed on (after all, he was a pusher!), and had no interest in solving crimes or cleaning up the sport until it became the only way to save his own ***.

We get it, you are in the "No Snitching" crowd. Tell us, When is it OK to tell the truth to the Police? Should you always lie to them or is there any time that giving them info is ok?

There are plenty of times, of course, mainly when one is the victim of a real crime or a witness to a crime with real victims (and no, amateur cycle racing does not count).

In my worldview, one should certainly refrain from spilling the beans when they just happen to overhear some information that was intended to be between two other people (or say, a patient and some doctors?), or when one is themselves a criminal and is only talking to the police in order to get away with something that they've been caught doing.
 
Hooptie said:
Decanio used to call them the Nandogators, I always thought that was brilliant.

Exactly what all of my teammates called them. Do you think it was just Decanio's name for them getting around or were they so odious that this name was spontaneously arrived at by different individuals and groups at the same time?

Sounds like linguistics or something...Professor Chomsky?
 
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stephens said:
No, not at all. He is nowhere near that righteous. What he is is a guy that was worse than those he informed on (after all, he was a pusher!), and had no interest in solving crimes or cleaning up the sport until it became the only way to save his own ***.

Joe was a dealer.....so that means he should not say anything? The only time that anyone should say something is when their motivation matches yours?

Strange logic


stephens said:
In my worldview, one should certainly refrain from spilling the beans when they just happen to overhear some information that was intended to be between two other people (or say, a patient and some doctors?)

So when they are asked a question under oath they should just lie? Perjury is better then being a snitch?

Strange logic
 
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stephens said:
In my worldview, one should certainly refrain from spilling the beans when they just happen to overhear some information that was intended to be between two other people (or say, a patient and some doctors?).

Ah.. bad betsy repeating what was a private conversation between lance and his doctor.

So youre saying when dopers are caught they should stick by the omerta and keep their mouths shut?
 
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Of course. They expected others to stick by the Omerta when they were doping, so they need to uphold the same standard and keep to it themselves. Nothing should change just because they were dumb enough (or excessive enough) to get caught.

I mean, it's one thing to be an openly clean cyclist (if such a thing exists) and that way your fellow competitors know what's up. But it's quite another to be a cheater who benefits from everyone keeping their mouth shut, and then once caught to not extend the same courtesy to others. It's dishonorable.
 
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stephens said:
Of course. They expected others to stick by the Omerta when they were doping, so they need to uphold the same standard and keep to it themselves. Nothing should change just because they were dumb enough (or excessive enough) to get caught.

I mean, it's one thing to be an openly clean cyclist (if such a thing exists) and that way your fellow competitors know what's up. But it's quite another to be a cheater who benefits from everyone keeping their mouth shut, and then once caught to not extend the same courtesy to others. It's dishonorable.
803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg

i did have a better one but its got bad wordsin it
 
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stephens said:
Of course. They expected others to stick by the Omerta when they were doping, so they need to uphold the same standard and keep to it themselves. Nothing should change just because they were dumb enough (or excessive enough) to get caught.

I mean, it's one thing to be an openly clean cyclist (if such a thing exists) and that way your fellow competitors know what's up. But it's quite another to be a cheater who benefits from everyone keeping their mouth shut, and then once caught to not extend the same courtesy to others. It's dishonorable.

I've been watching the impending car crash and suspected racers of all abilities to partake of PEDs but had no idea Joe's network had some old wannabes in it. It's logical that there might but it will be surprising to see who is on the list. Maybe I'll move up some podium steps from Master's Natz of old. If it cleans up that part of USA Cycling I'll be in Bend next summer to race. Hopefully Steve Johnson will no longer be a part of USA Cycling. USAC's passivitity in this whole affair begs further questions.
 
Back when I was racing Pro-Ams (clean) in the US, we had to go up against the various jacked Saturns and Navigators. Though I was unaware at the time.

Then I came to Europe, lost my innocence (not through dopng, but its reality in the sport) and then simply watched a former cancer patient crush the field in the hardest race in the world for nearly a decade. I imagine that this crop of masters cyclists "grew-up" in that era and so doping has become a "natural" fit.
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg

i did have a better one but its got bad wordsin it

Your overreacting here Teamskyfans. Stephens unlike most on here isnt going to lick Joe Papps backside just cos he posts here. Whilst informative & engaging it still doesnt wipe the slate clean for anybody with a perfectly reasonable gut feeling as to whats right & wrong.
If Armstrong ever comes on here after being destroyed & starts posting I hope you will wipe & flush for him too.
 
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Kerbdog said:
Your overreacting here Teamskyfans. Stephens unlike most on here isnt going to lick Joe Papps backside just cos he posts here. Whilst informative & engaging it still doesnt wipe the slate clean for anybody with a perfectly reasonable gut feeling as to whats right & wrong.
If Armstrong ever comes on here after being destroyed & starts posting I hope you will wipe & flush for him too.

how can any serious cycling fan honestly say that they support the omerta? its unfathomable to me. That there are fans that dont want to see a clean sport. Its got nothing to do with joe papp or anything else, i asked if he supported the omerta, that was his reply, he does.
 
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Kerbdog said:
Your overreacting here Teamskyfans. Stephens unlike most on here isnt going to lick Joe Papps backside just cos he posts here. Whilst informative & engaging it still doesnt wipe the slate clean for anybody with a perfectly reasonable gut feeling as to whats right & wrong.
If Armstrong ever comes on here after being destroyed & starts posting I hope you will wipe & flush for him too.

Go back and read Stephans posts. You can hate Joe and still think his posts are flawed.
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
how can any serious cycling fan honestly say that they support the omerta? its unfathomable to me. That there are fans that dont want to see a clean sport. Its got nothing to do with joe papp or anything else, i asked if he supported the omerta, that was his reply, he does.

I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.
 
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Bob Sanders said:
I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.

TeamSkyFans said:
803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg

i did have a better one but its got bad wordsin it

.....................................
 
Bob Sanders said:
I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.

I don't give a SHI-ITE about the money men!

I care about the SPORT.

YOU sound like a non-racer.

And that will be there without sponsors! I don't give a damn if there was no "professional" cycling.

Expose ALL the cheats! Kick their arses!
 
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Bob Sanders said:
I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.

So we should just ignore it? Let the money of the sport rule who wins?
Insanity if you ask me, a sport where having the best money to create the best doping programme is more important than the actual riders.
And no I didnt watch the last few pharmstrong tour wins, I just couldn't stand it anymore. And watching Ricco and Kohl in the mountains made me turn of that tour as well. I am not saying the peleton is clean by any chance now, but it seems better than in a very long time, and we as fans should fight as hard as we can to make doping less and less in this faboulus sport. And it saddens me that some fans are actually ok with the doping because getting rid of it scares away the money.
 

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stephens said:
The whole thing is just so sordid. Of course those who were cheating have no right to expect they'll get away with it in the end or anything and i'm glad they will be punished, but...the concept of them being found out only because some other guy was dumb enough to get caught and then to save his own *** started singing...that's just, not cool. I've always been a fan of leaving the policing to the police, so to speak, with everybody not a cop just staying the F*&# out of it. It just upsets the balance of power when crooks start helping.

stephens said:
Of course. They expected others to stick by the Omerta when they were doping, so they need to uphold the same standard and keep to it themselves. Nothing should change just because they were dumb enough (or excessive enough) to get caught.

I mean, it's one thing to be an openly clean cyclist (if such a thing exists) and that way your fellow competitors know what's up. But it's quite another to be a cheater who benefits from everyone keeping their mouth shut, and then once caught to not extend the same courtesy to others. It's dishonorable.

brianf7 said:
In all teams you have Donkeys who want to be race horses and so it will go on regardless .

Bob Sanders said:
I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.

This is exactly what I hoped this thread would draw out. Thanks, fanbois, paid flacks and general morons! Keep the brilliant posts coming!
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg

i did have a better one but its got bad wordsin it

Oh, you totally win with that one! I enjoyed the thread quite a bit up to your post, and then you hit out with comedic genius and really took me to a whole new level of appreciation. Bravo good sir, BRAVO!!!
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
how can any serious cycling fan honestly say that they support the omerta? its unfathomable to me. That there are fans that dont want to see a clean sport. Its got nothing to do with joe papp or anything else, i asked if he supported the omerta, that was his reply, he does.

It was early over here when I posted & I can be grouchy then so let me clear myself up a bit TSF. I would certainly hope knowone here seriously supports Omerta, I for the record do not & utterly abhor such a mentality such as it is. I think Stephens point is just about the irony of Joe P doing a canary. I know just leaving it to the "police" wont stop it & it will need as much help as possible. Unfortunately for some when Joe P comes into an equation here its gonna rise that little bit of extra vitriol no matter what he does.
 
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Bob Sanders said:
I'm a somewhat casual fan who reads CN a few times a week. What I don't understand is fans like you who are hellbent on driving every single sponsor out of the sport and killing it by demanding the exposure of every doper in history. You can keep sitting sitting around and having circle jerks about Cadel or whoever else you think is clean but I have news for you, there is no such thing as a clean grand tour GC contender and hasn't been since the early 90s or before from what I can tell. Exposing every doper will kill the sport. If the sport somehow survives the witch hunt the replacement riders will still dope, they will just find something new to beat the tests over and over.

Doping is more effective in cycling than any other sport so it can never be eradicated. Someone will always take the risk.

How depressing.
 
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simo1733 said:
How depressing.

Nah, his post is just a rumination by a fanboy who is in the anger stage of grief because he cannot accept the fact that he has supported the biggest fraud in sporting history. Its natural. He will progress along the path like so many others already have.
 
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steevo said:
Saturn, Navigators, Jelly Belly etc etc...they all had riders who doped. No, I don't believe they all did (though Navigators I would say was full of 'em) but enough to make a lot of riders lose hope, riders with a lot more talent than me.



From '98-2005 I was lucky enough to have the time, talent and connections to get myself to the majority of the NRC events here in the States. I watched numerous Cat 1/ Elites move up and down from the pro ranks, and always thought that it was the special pro team kit that provided an extra 30 watts at LT.

If you were there racing week in and week out, you had to be blind to not recognize what was going on.