Geert Leinders

[Zam_Olyas]

Who replaced him?

I mean this is a guy who was employed to save lives, can't just let him go and not have someone ready to take over.

And i feel for the sky riders as there will be no one to treat their saddle sores.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Who replaced him?

I mean this is a guy who was employed to save lives, can't just let him go and not have someone ready to take over.

Looks like the media forgot to ask that question. Mind you it was a spokesperson, so they probably wouldn't have known - handy yeah?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

By the way atlast a small and first win for bone idle ****ers who have never achieved something in life

 

[Franklin]

Leinders's 'reputation' has been built entirely since Sky started winning and someone wanted to create a story. No-one mentioned him on here prior to 2012, despite apparently being a famous doping doctor that everyone knew about.

Leinders was a nobody. He was responsible for laughing stock as Menchov and Rasmussen. Menchov won only two more GT's than any Sky champ, which clearly shows Leinders was just in the kiddie competition.

Indeed! The Rasmussen versus Rabo trial completely didn't make any media. The judge saying that the Management team of Rabo was fraudulent (and yes, Leinders was part of the management team) never made any paper. The well documented Carte Blanche for Leinders never made the papers either. Those who say otherwise are mean guys who falsified the records.

A doctor who is in the management team is absolutely not responsible for missbehavior of the riders and even if implicated in fraud really shouldn't be frowned at.


Hint, this was sarcasm.

1. The Rabo case was publicized. The judge did name the Management team fraudulent.
2. The carte blanche for Leinders did make the papers. It was never denied by anyone involved. Imagine such a "vile" accusation without any complaint.

Anyone downplaying Leinders influence and stature at Rabo is falsifying facts. And it's absolutely impossible that Sky wasn't fully aware of this. This was big news in the Netherlands and made the major news outlets. And the MR incident simply was the biggest TdF incident of the last ten years after the Flandis farce.

And yet they still hired him. Why would they hire a big shot known doping doctor who has been proven to have no scruples about whereabouts?

The answer: Saddle sores!

 

[Maillot Vert]

http://road.cc/content/news/68664-t...ll-no-longer-work-dutch-doctor-geert-leinders

Leinders worked at Rabobank at the time the Michael Rasmussen scandal broke during the 2007 Tour de France, and allegations have since been made by a former member of team management that its medical staff were tolerant of riders doping at the time. A former rider also said that Leinders had helped him keep his haematocrit level below the permitted maximum.

 

[simo1733]

Leinders was a nobody. He was responsible for laughing stock as Menchov and Rasmussen. Menchov won only two more GT's than any Sky champ, which clearly shows Leinders was just in the kiddie competition.

Indeed! The Rasmussen versus Rabo trial completely didn't make any media. The judge saying that the Management team of Rabo was fraudulent (and yes, Leinders was part of the management team) never made any paper. The well documented Carte Blanche for Leinders never made the papers either. Those who say otherwise are mean guys who falsified the records.

A doctor who is in the management team is absolutely not responsible for missbehavior of the riders and even if implicated in fraud really shouldn't be frowned at.


Hint, this was sarcasm.

1. The Rabo case was publicized. The judge did name the Management team fraudulent.
2. The carte blanche for Leinders did make the papers. It was never denied by anyone involved. Imagine such a "vile" accusation without any complaint.

Anyone downplaying Leinders influence and stature at Rabo is falsifying facts. And it's absolutely impossible that Sky wasn't fully aware of this. This was big news in the Netherlands and made the major news outlets. And the MR incident simply was the biggest TdF incident of the last ten years after the Flandis farce.

And yet they still hired him. Why would they hire a big shot known doping doctor who has been proven to have no scruples about whereabouts?

The answer: Saddle sores!

Why didn't any other team hire him after Rabn the basis that he is a hotshot PED expert, you would think he would be in high demand.
Either his rep is not as impressive as this forum would like us to believe, or SkY give less of a S*** about doping than most of the other teams who definately don't give a s***.

 

[dadane]

Leinders had carte blanche. Menchov and Rasmussen both had to source 'medical assistance' from outside contrary the closed-shop policy of the team at the time. To me this suggests his prime function was and is masking management. Edit: he is clearly very good at it.

 

[sniper]

Why didn't any other team hire him after Rabn the basis that he is a hotshot PED expert, you would think he would be in high demand.
Either his rep is not as impressive as this forum would like us to believe, or SkY give less of a S*** about doping than most of the other teams who definately don't give a s***.

how do you know no other team tried to hire him?
with such a palmares, we can only assume he chose the best out of several offers.

 

[Frosty]

The BBC Sport Cycling section seems a bit slow on mentioning this.

 

[hrotha]

I disagree, and have posted this numerous times: http://road.cc/content/news/31011-dave-brailsford-hints-team-sky-may-be-softening-anti-doping-stance


The story goes on to discuss Neil Stephens as an example (that's called misdirection).

The interview is Feb 15th, 2011. I am guessing Leinders came on board not long after.

No, they signed Leinders in late 2010, after the Vuelta.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

No, they signed Leinders in late 2010, after the Vuelta.

When does he first appear in any Sky communication? Do you have a link to this hiring date?

ETA: found a "late 2010" mention in another forum but no link to the article they copied. Typical.

Here's one: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-vague-on-leinders-investigation "winter of 2010".

 

[hrotha]

When does he first appear in any Sky communication? Do you have a link to this hiring date?

I don't know about Sky's official statements, but there's this:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-vague-on-leinders-investigation

Leinders joined Sky in the winter of 2010

 

[dadane]

When does he first appear in any Sky communication? Do you have a link to this hiring date?

ETA: found a "late 2010" mention in another forum but no link to the article they copied. Typical.

From CN

"Leinders joined Sky in the winter of 2010 in a part-time capacity, working 80 days a year for the team."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-​vague-on-leinders-investigation

Edit: too slow...

 

[L'arriviste]

Leinders had carte blanche. Menchov and Rasmussen both had to source 'medical assistance' from outside contrary the closed-shop policy of the team at the time. To me this suggests his prime function was and is masking management.

This is what I tend to believe too. To suggest that Leinders was/is a player among the pantheon of sought after doping doctors is no more valid than the proposition that he simply managed riders' numbers, out of personal choice or lack of nous.

We know that big name riders on Rabo went outside (as most still do today). We also know that Leinders didn't go to another big team.

It is not impossible that Leinders didn't want to join that pantheon and he did not seek notoriety and pots of money, although I accept that - in the latter case - publishing those books could suggest the opposite.

I don't think that this is downplaying Leinders' involvement at Rabo. He knew the score and so must Sky have when it bought his services. But I don't think you can automatically brand Leinders a doping player just because Sky is creepy. Not yet anyway.

 

[sittingbison]

His appointment came less than a year after Team Sky had pledged that it would only employ doctors who had never before worked on professional cycling teams, supposedly in order to ensure that the sins of cycling’s past could have no place in this new team.

Leinders was the team doctor with the Rabobank team in 2007 when Michael Rasmussen was expelled from the Tour de France while in yellow for evading doping controls

former Rabobank manager Theo De Roy told Volksrant that doping had been tolerated on the team up until at least 2007, saying that it was “a deliberate decision of the medical staff.”

and from http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

it was a surprising decision by Team Sky to hire a doctor who was at Rabobank during the time Michael Rasmussen was kicked off the 2007 Tour de France and when Thomas Dekker tested positive for EPO.

And this from Brailsford, which is intriguing given Leinders was only employed 80 days per year and was NOT present during the Tours when it would be expected his cycling "expertise" is needed most:

“I’ll give you an example – saddle sores. Some of the sores the guys get are horrendous. Edvald [Boasson Hagen] had a really bad one and we thought ‘will we be able to send him to the Tour? Do we operate?’"

And this from Brailsford, the bolded section particulary pertinent given Leinders is now sacked:

“There’s nothing he [Leinders] has done since he’s been here to give me any concern. We have had discussions with him and once we’ve established the facts, we will take the appropriate action.”

Its a tangles web we weave...

 

[dadane]

Brailsford, July 2012: "Leinders is not with Team Sky at the Tour, which Bradley Wiggins led entering Wednesday's 10th stage, and works for 80 days a year with the British squad, which has a zero tolerance attitude to doping." blah, blah.

So in 2010 and 2012, and presumably, 2011, Leinders was on an 80/365 part-time contract only. Now that's the kind of job I'm looking for.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Cheers hrotha and dadane.

I have no idea why people are complaining about Leinders being hired by Sky. It's not like their performances improved in 2011 or 2012 is it? Not like they had just had 3 riders pull out in the first week of the Vuelta and then the entire team pull out - with some "stomach virus" that killed a soigneur (first week of the Vuelta) then no wait it was something very different as soon as Brailsford stepped in.

Richard Moore is right. Sky are not winning the PR battle on being "team clean".
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-sky-must-send-a-positive-message-to-the-fans/

But they are failing, somehow, to get the message across that they are clean.

Leinders being hired for saddle sores reminds me of that banana joke.

Some guy walking around with a banana sticking out of his ear.
Someone asks him, "WTF is that for?"
"Keeps the crocodiles away, dunnit?" he responds.
"There aren't any crocodiles around here though!" his disbelieving interrogator replies.
"Working, ain't it?"

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Its a tangles web we weave...

BTW when did the Spanish seignior pass away? Txema??

Txema Gonzalez went into hospital pretty much the first day of the 2010 Vuelta, and died from memory 5 days later. So August/September 2010.

By the time he died, 3 Sky riders had pulled out with a "stomach virus". The entire team pulled out after Txema's death.

This was after the 24th place domination of the 2010 Tour by Brad and the boys, so no reason at all to suspect they were playing around with blood transfusions or anything like that, no sir, not a bit.

 

[Daniel]

Although I agree that Team Sky is indeed suspicious, there is not a single piece of hard evidence that Leinders is in the center of all of this. While I think everyone should evaluate Sky with healthy skepticism, the current focus on Leinders seems unsupported. It just looks like someone threw a single, old bone into a group of hungry dogs and they are fighting over it ever since, neglecting the rest of the world that revolves around them. To me, the role of Leinders in Sky's doping program, if it exists, seems superficial at best. Just as it probably was with Rabobank. While Leinders' presence at Sky questions the truthfulness of their hiring policy, it hardly proves anything regarding doping.

 

[hrotha]

Although I agree that Team Sky is indeed suspicious, there is not a single piece of hard evidence that Leinders is in the center of all of this. While I think everyone should evaluate Sky with healthy skepticism, the current focus on Leinders seems unsupported. It just looks like someone threw a single, old bone into a group of hungry dogs and they are fighting over it ever since, neglecting the rest of the world that revolves around them. To me, the role of Leinders in Sky's doping program, if it exists, seems superficial at best. Just as it probably was with Rabobank. While Leinders' presence at Sky questions the truthfulness of their hiring policy, it hardly proves anything regarding doping.

I would agree Leinders is probably more a symptom than the explanation of Sky's transformation, but IMO the fact that they hired him is very telling and betrays an open change of policy.

 

[JRanton]

I would agree Leinders is probably more a symptom than the explanation of Sky's transformation, but IMO the fact that they hired him is very telling and betrays an open change of policy.

Worth pointing out that it actually was an open change of policy. Brailsford came out and said after the 2010 season that they were going to drop their initial 'whiter than white' stance.

 

[RichWalk]

I would agree Leinders is probably more a symptom than the explanation of Sky's transformation, but IMO the fact that they hired him is very telling and betrays an open change of policy.

Its at best a 'grey area' imagine a Banks Board who hire an expert who was previously involved in money laundering; why did they hire him, to ensure it didnt happen at their bank or to facilitate the very same without the bank being rumbled?

 

[hrotha]

Worth pointing out that it actually was an open change of policy. Brailsford came out and said after the 2010 season that they were going to drop their initial 'whiter than white' stance.

With regards to DSs and technical staff, yes. I don't remember anyone saying the same about doctors.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Worth pointing out that it actually was an open change of policy. Brailsford came out and said after the 2010 season that they were going to drop their initial 'whiter than white' stance.

February 2011 is a looong time after they actually hired Leinders. And he only implies they are thinking about it, not that they have actually done it. Big difference.

 

[dadane]

While Leinders' presence at Sky questions the truthfulness of their hiring policy, it hardly proves anything regarding doping.

I agree, there is no proof of anything, and he may or may not be a doping guru. But he is (was) employed by Sky in direct contradiction to their policy of not employing anyone previously connected with doping. Why? Unfortunately, the contradiction speaks for itself.