Geert Leinders

[Tinman]

Thanks. It's available epub so I'll add it to the list.

apparently the dutch version attributes the mechanics urine swap to Yates, the english version mentions "an un-named rider".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

apparently the dutch version attributes the mechanics urine swap to Yates, the english version mentions "an un-named rider".

libel laws raising their ugly heads again?

thanks for the heads up.

 

[Tinman]

libel laws raising their ugly heads again?

thanks for the heads up.

My screw up after all. The urine story is Kelly, not Yates. Have Yates on the brain, wonder why...

 

[pmcg76]

apparently the dutch version attributes the mechanics urine swap to Yates, the english version mentions "an un-named rider".

It was clearly Kelly as Voet was on Kelly's team whilst I don't think he ever worked with Yates.

The incident is ironically mentioned in David Walsh's book on Kelly in 85. It describes how Kelly tested positive for a product, stimul that had no performance enhancing capabilities at all.

When I then read Breaking the Chain, it was so obvious who it was referring to. The incidents are identical, Voet used stimul to stay awake to drive long distances.

I too am surprised at how someone like Dear Wiggo who has such an interest in doping and speaks with such authority on the subject would not have been aware of this incident.

 

[Tinman]

I too am surprised at how someone like Dear Wiggo who has such an interest in doping and speaks with such authority on the subject would not have been aware of this incident.

Many people here. Young and old. Authorities on this and that. it's a huge field. Very few people who cover it all. Which is why most of us are here. To have the gaps filled in.

And then there are the others... we ignore them as much as possible. And if necessary report them.

 

[Benotti69]

Although I agree that Team Sky is indeed suspicious, there is not a single piece of hard evidence that Leinders is in the center of all of this. While I think everyone should evaluate Sky with healthy skepticism, the current focus on Leinders seems unsupported. It just looks like someone threw a single, old bone into a group of hungry dogs and they are fighting over it ever since, neglecting the rest of the world that revolves around them. To me, the role of Leinders in Sky's doping program, if it exists, seems superficial at best. Just as it probably was with Rabobank. While Leinders' presence at Sky questions the truthfulness of their hiring policy, it hardly proves anything regarding doping.

So why was Leinders dropped?

He is a doping Doctor. I bet Sky would have kept him on but they are betting that the court case in Holland will show how much of a doping Doctor he is.

There is also the possibility that as all the riders are self employed with contracts they can continue to see Leinders as there may be a loop hole in their contracts and he may be holidaying at the same time they are training

 

[simo1733]

how do you know no other team tried to hire him?
with such a palmares, we can only assume he chose the best out of several offers.

I thought there were a couple of years between him leaving Rabo and joining Sky.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I too am surprised at how someone like Dear Wiggo who has such an interest in doping and speaks with such authority on the subject would not have been aware of this incident.

My interest in doping began in July, 2012, when Wiggo said I or people like me were bone idle lazy w*nkers.

You'll have to forgive me only following contemporary riders to date, as there's so much to catch up on.

Feel free to correct my mistakes.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I thought there were a couple of years between him leaving Rabo and joining Sky.

Internet says Leinders left Rabo late 2009 and joined Sky late 2010. It's quite possible he worked freelance / with individual riders (cf Ferrari & Armstrong post 2004) before taking a steadier gig with a team.

 

[Telmisartan new]

I thought there were a couple of years between him leaving Rabo and joining Sky.

Leinders was damaged goods after The Chicken got done,persona non grata throughout the sport,makes it even more astonishing wee Davey Brailsford would take such a reputational risk with that in mind....unless Geert is a decoy for Ferrari or Sainz......

 

[Tinman]

I thought there were a couple of years between him leaving Rabo and joining Sky.

Maybe he was gardening for Lance? Or Yates even?

 

[Benotti69]

Maybe he was gardening for Lance? Or Yates even?

Maybe he was riding a motorbike with strange cases during the GTs?

 

[Benotti69]

My interest in doping began in July, 2012, when Wiggo said I or people like me were bone idle lazy w*nkers.

You'll have to forgive me only following contemporary riders to date, as there's so much to catch up on.

Feel free to correct my mistakes.

A great site to refer to is http://www.dopeology.org/ run by CNs very own, but they own him not, L'arriviste

 

[Telmisartan new]

A great site to refer to is http://www.dopeology.org/ run by CNs very own, but they own him not, L'arriviste

Excellent site.Will use that myself.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A great site to refer to is http://www.dopeology.org/ run by CNs very own, but they own him not, L'arriviste

Agreed. We have also exchanged PMs. He was pleased with my progress

 

[Daniel]

So why was Leinders dropped?

He is a doping Doctor. I bet Sky would have kept him on but they are betting that the court case in Holland will show how much of a doping Doctor he is.

There is also the possibility that as all the riders are self employed with contracts they can continue to see Leinders as there may be a loop hole in their contracts and he may be holidaying at the same time they are training

Well, if you look closely at the statements that have emerged throughout the years, there are no statements suggesting Leinders himself devised any doping program for Rabobank's riders. In my opinion, the constructed picture is a bit different: The riders were more or less encouraged to seek out external specialists, hence the training freedom at Rabobank, but were obliged to work with Leinders to keep it all in check (health + testing negative). As an example, the case of Jans Koerts (rode with Rabo in 1997-98): He admitted EPO-use, but only implicated Leinders in the testing negative part. Leinders has supposedly provided him with saline (salt) tablets , normally used to hydrate the body. In this case it was probably used as a masking agent.

Combined with the other statements that have surfaced, it just seems like Leinders is a genius in keeping his riders healthy and clean; he's a sort of risk management doctor. There are basically no indications that he himself has any knowledge or experience in actually setting up a doping program. If his uses at Sky were doping related, they were probably related to health+testing, not the actual doping program itself.

If one wants to find the focal point of doping at Sky, one should look to others than Leinders.

 

[Tinman]

Maybe he was gardening for Lance? Or Yates even?

Brian Cookson, president of British Cycling, on UCI mgmt committee, ex landscape gardener

 

[Benotti69]

Well, if you look closely at the statements that have emerged throughout the years, there are no statements suggesting Leinders himself devised any doping program for Rabobank's riders. In my opinion, the constructed picture is a bit different: The riders were more or less encouraged to seek out external specialists, hence the training freedom at Rabobank, but were obliged to work with Leinders to keep it all in check (health + testing negative). As an example, the case of Jans Koerts (rode with Rabo in 1997-98): He admitted EPO-use, but only implicated Leinders in the testing negative part. Leinders has supposedly provided him with saline (salt) tablets , normally used to hydrate the body. In this case it was probably used as a masking agent.

Combined with the other statements that have surfaced, it just seems like Leinders is a genius in keeping his riders healthy and clean; he's a sort of risk management doctor. There are basically no indications that he himself has any knowledge or experience in actually setting up a doping program. If his uses at Sky were doping related, they were probably related to health+testing, not the actual doping program itself.

If one wants to find the focal point of doping at Sky, one should look to others than Leinders.

He's a doping Doctor, he wasn't hired by Sky to rub on chamois cream to saddle sores.

As for Rabo riders doing there own thing, any links or info?

 

[Franklin]

Well, if you look closely at the statements that have emerged throughout the years, there are no statements suggesting Leinders himself devised any doping program for Rabobank's riders

This is rather amazing considering he "kept them testing clean". So no matter what the rider did, Leinders just magicked them and they tested with the tresholds. Now a more sane explanation would be that Leinders knew exactly what was going on and was actively advicing the riders what to do. And of course, the second, more sane explanation, fully coincides with his position in the team, his carte blanche, the new goals of the team.

Seriously, or Leinders is TRULY the greatest masking doctor ever, or you must acknowledge that indeed he was involved.

And even if you keep on going for the ridiculous "Leinders is that good a doctor", it's only more damning. Why hire the best masking doctor ever?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

festinagirl ‏@festinagirl
Leinders MT @TourDeJose: Leipheimer: I continued to use EPO at Rabobank in 2002-04 and was assisted in using it by Rabobank dr. “Blank”

 

[Benotti69]

festinagirl ‏@festinagirl
Leinders MT @TourDeJose: Leipheimer: I continued to use EPO at Rabobank in 2002-04 and was assisted in using it by Rabobank dr. “Blank”

Well spotted.

Will any of the other federations take action? Doubt it!

Will the media pick through it and ask some hard questions? Doubt it!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

festinagirl ‏@festinagirl
Leinders MT @TourDeJose: Leipheimer: I continued to use EPO at Rabobank in 2002-04 and was assisted in using it by Rabobank dr. “Blank”

No mention of saddle sores? Sky hired a doctor for saddle sores. No mention anywhere of saddle sores.

 

[Arnout]

One can get backdated UCI approval for all sort of saddle sore cures. They don't need to worry about things like that.

 

[sniper]

Leinders was Boogerd's doctor already in 1998.

http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5009/Arch...07/Een-stadse-jongen-met-een-boerenhart.dhtml

Ik had een superjaar gehad. Mijn dokter, Geert Leinders, zei toen: 'Michael, besef dat je dit volgend jaar niet kunt overtreffen'. Maar ik had alweer snode plannen voor 1999. Leinders heeft me die winter wel vier keer gewaarschuwd, maar ik luisterde niet meer. Ik trainde nog harder, lette nog meer op mijn voeding. Ik raakte even overtraind, maar sloeg er geen acht op. En wat gebeurde er? Ik reed een supervoorjaar, won Parijs-Nice en de Amstel Gold Race. '

Translation:

(...) [in 1998/1999] I had had a top year. My doctor G. Leinders told me "you won't be able to top this year". But I already had snode plans for 1999. Leinders warned me more than four times that winter, but I didn't listen to him anymore. I trained harder and harder, watched my nutrition. I got overtrained, but I didn't pay attention. And what happened? I had a fantastic preseason, won Parice Nice and the Amstel Gold Race.

 

[JRanton]

Not good Sky, not good at all.