Giro 2017, stage 13: Reggio Emilia - Tortona 229 km

[deValtos]

Good sprint but it was Stuyven and Bennet he flew past, not Kittel and Cavendish.

 

[Escarabajo]

Please stop the beating!!!!!!

I can't take it anymore!!!

 

[yaco]

Kittel is the sprinter and Martin the GC rider for Quick Step in the TDF - QS want to win a stage or 2 with Kittel and gain a high position in GC with Martin - It's help with sponsorship if you feature in a GT for the full three weeks.

 

[deValtos]

Quickstep have too many good riders they'll need to make space for some doms!

I assumed Gilbert would do the TDF aswell now since his injury?

 

[Velolover2]

Isn't stage 14 more like a MTT?

I can't see Dumoulin losing that much.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Tremendous consistency from Gibbons. Dimension Data have found a good one there.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

As I said, Gaviria is a very good sprinter. But calling him "best sprinter in the world" is nonsense (in my opinion) because he still has to prove it on the biggest stage, when you expect top sprinters to battle it out.

I agree with that part. And I don't think he will get the better of Kittel (or a healthy Cavendish) on a straight run in.

But by the same token Kittel hasn't proven to be the best the Tour in the last couple of years. I mean, I think he's clearly tops at the moment with Cavendish out, but I base that on his other performances, no on his Tours. So on that basis it's not nonsense to call Gaviria the best sprinter in the world at the moment. I don't agree, but it's not nonsense.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

As I said, Gaviria is a very good sprinter. But calling him "best sprinter in the world" is nonsense (in my opinion) because he still has to prove it on the biggest stage, when you expect top sprinters to battle it out.

I agree with that part. And I don't think he can beat Kittel (or a healthy Cavendish) on a straight run in.

But by the same token Kittel hasn't proven to be the best the Tour in the last couple of years. I mean, I think he's clearly tops at the moment with Cavendish out, but I base that on his other performances, no on his Tours. So on that basis it's not nonsense to call Gaviria the best sprinter in the world at the moment. I don't agree, but it's not nonsense.

It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.

 

[jsem94]

Gaviria superhuman.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I really didn't expect Bora to have the horsepower to have the dominant sprint train. There are some serious engines among the young rider's they've brought. Pity for them that Gaviria has the form to spoil their work. I wonder is this going to be a central part of their tactics for the rest of the season. Will Sagan and Bennett regularly get the full HTC treatment?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.

I'm not saying he is. But an argument can be made. Assume a sprint stage in a week, all of the hitters are there (bar Cav, who is on the sidelines ATM), outside of Kittel, who are you taking? Now, get Kittel back in there, say it's a lumpy finish, or twisty finish, who are you taking? It's not ludicrous to go with Gaviria in either case.

Also, this sprint field is a little better than 2014 Vuelta. And Bouhanni was right up there with Dege there.

Again, I won't say it, and I don't believe it, and it seems like a lot of unnecessary hype, but it's not insane to suggest it.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I really didn't expect Bora to have the horsepower to have the dominant sprint train. There are some serious engines among the young rider's they've brought. Pity for them that Gaviria has the form to spoil their work. I wonder is this going to be a central part of their tactics for the rest of the season. Will Sagan and Bennett regularly get the full HTC treatment?

It would be fun to see Sagan with a decent sprint train again, like he had occasionally in the Cannondale days. I think he's a faster bunch sprinter than he was then as well, so with a good lead out (Bennett as last man could be incredible), he would have a chance of challenging even Kittel at times imo.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Bora certainly has the riders but they surely messed that up in the finishing straight. No need for Selig to get into a barging match with Richeze when there was half the road to ride in. That just slowed everyone up behind except for Gaviria who took full advantage of the opportunity he should never have been presented with

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.

I'm not saying he is. But an argument can be made. Assume a sprint stage in a week, all of the hitters are there (bar Cav, who is on the sidelines ATM), outside of Kittel, who are you taking? Now, get Kittel back in there, say it's a lumpy finish, or twisty finish, who are you taking? It's not ludicrous to go with Gaviria in either case.

Also, this sprint field is a little better than 2014 Vuelta. And Bouhanni was right up there with Dege there.

Again, I won't say it, and I don't believe it, and it seems like a lot of unnecessary hype, but it's not insane to suggest it.

I think the 2014 Vuelta is a very good comparison. There you had the best second tier sprinters like Degenkolb, Bouhanni, Sagan, Matthews and a few outsiders like Boonen and Ciolek.

Similarly at this Giro, you've got second tier sprinters like Bennett and Ewan, plus a load of pretty poor outsiders like Mareczko and Modolo. Griepel is the exception I guess, but his lead out really sucks without Sieberg and Henderson, to the extent that he's been out of contention before the sprint starts more often than not.

Gaviria really needs to be beating the best sprinters with their a-trains, before he can be considered in the same company imo. He's been hugely impressive to win so many stages, but I think it's way too early to apply a wider context to his performances.

 

[del1962]

So who leaves the Giro tomorrow with Greipel?

Ewan and Bennett?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

So who leaves the Giro tomorrow with Greipel?

Ewan and Bennett?

According to Orica's post stage report, Ewan is quoted as saying he'll treat it day by day from now on. Currently feeling strong but if he feels that he's really going "too deep" then it's time to pull the plug

 

[carton]

For fellow data geeks: That was a 380m, 21 sec, probably over 1,200W NP (1,098 Avg) sprint, from Velon's data.

He's been hugely impressive to win so many stages, but I think it's way too early to apply a wider context to his performances.

I think we're basically in agreement there.

 

[shalgo]

Re:

Tremendous consistency from Gibbons. Dimension Data have found a good one there.

Yes, he has been in the top 8 on 6 stages--and he is the only rider to have been in the top 8 in all of them. He clearly knows how to maneuver in a GT sprint. The top end speed is still lacking to compete for a win, but this is nevertheless an excellent GT debut.

 

[Escarabajo]

After 4 stage wins!

We are still waiting to see how he develops into a better sprinter.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Maybe Im overreacting, but right now, I genuinely think the case can be made he is the 2nd best sprinter in the world on a tradiotional sprint stage and maybe the best if there are obstacles in the finale (that they don't finish on, in that case Sagan is the best). Greipel got the shape, it seems, but for whatever reason he and/or his teammates mess it up. I think its partly due to age, young riders generally tend to be a lot more reckless in tense finales and so he is pretty careful at this point - like Ewan, super hit and miss.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.

I'm not saying he is. But an argument can be made. Assume a sprint stage in a week, all of the hitters are there (bar Cav, who is on the sidelines ATM), outside of Kittel, who are you taking? Now, get Kittel back in there, say it's a lumpy finish, or twisty finish, who are you taking? It's not ludicrous to go with Gaviria in either case.

Also, this sprint field is a little better than 2014 Vuelta. And Bouhanni was right up there with Dege there.

Again, I won't say it, and I don't believe it, and it seems like a lot of unnecessary hype, but it's not insane to suggest it.

I think the 2014 Vuelta is a very good comparison. There you had the best second tier sprinters like Degenkolb, Bouhanni, Sagan, Matthews and a few outsiders like Boonen and Ciolek.

Similarly at this Giro, you've got second tier sprinters like Bennett and Ewan, plus a load of pretty poor outsiders like Mareczko and Modolo. Griepel is the exception I guess, but his lead out really sucks without Sieberg and Henderson, to the extent that he's been out of contention before the sprint starts more often than not.

Gaviria really needs to be beating the best sprinters with their a-trains, before he can be considered in the same company imo. He's been hugely impressive to win so many stages, but I think it's way too early to apply a wider context to his performances.

You are right. Another example could be Bouhanni in the 2014 Giro. I don't think anyone seriously considered him the best sprinter in the world because of his three stage wins, and neither should people think that way about Gaviria. For what it was worth, it was probably his best sprint win ever today, better than Paris-Tours as well, which - to be fair - was a win more remniscent of Cancellara's win in Compiégne than a true sprint win.

 

[Velolover2]

Wanna bet on a top 15 for tomorrow? Quintana to win it but Dumoulin to get much closer.


Quintana
Dumoulin, 3'
Pinot, 15'
Yates
Mollema, 21'
Nibali, 34
Pozzovivo
Formolo
Jungels, 55'
Zakarin
Polanc
Amador
Kangert
Reichenbach, 1'32
Cataldo

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Very exciting sprint. My respect goes out to the Colombian. Congrats.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

Wanna bet on a top 15 for tomorrow? Quintana to win it but Dumoulin to get much closer.


Quintana
Dumoulin, 3'
Pinot, 15'
Yates
Mollema, 21'
Nibali, 34
Pozzovivo
Formolo
Jungels, 55'
Zakarin
Polanc
Amador
Kangert
Reichenbach, 1'32
Cataldo

It wouldn't shock me if a select group came in pretty much together tomorrow. NQ will want to get some time back, and he very may well get a little, but I think the stages to come is where he'll be expecting the big chunks.

 

[Escarabajo]

Quintana said in an interview that he wants to take some time back tomorrow.