Giro d'Italia 2017 rumours - Il Centesimo

[sir fly]

A good time trialist will have a decent chance on this route. Too bad there's no a prominent time trialist consistent enough in the mountains, yet. Zakarin is the closest to the type..
And excuse me for bringing the Tour here, but the routes look very good for the double attempt. If we take a look back at the double attempts (completed and denied) since Pantani's success, next year's composition looks the least demanding. For example, Basoo would've had a better chance with the kind of Tour we'll have next season, than he had on the routes and against the field at the time.
Bahrain project has got only one GT heavyweight in their ranks, and I believe should they respect each other's wishes - we'll see a double attempt.
Aru's also interesting in that regard and sits in pretty much the same position like Nibali.
Their duel could be the story of the next season.

 

[Eshnar]

Why do people keep thinking the double is likelier with easy routes?
Also, why do people keep thinking this Giro has an easy route?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

Why do people keep thinking the double is likelier with easy routes?
Also, why do people keep thinking this Giro has an easy route?

1. Froome almost won the Tour - Vuelta double, even when contesting the Olympics RR & TT in between. That wouldn't have been possible if the Vuelta would have had a healthy amount of multiple mountain stages.

The Giro- Tour double is obviously much harder, but their routes can be neutered in ways that it becomes less unlikely.

2. I don;t know. Maybe because there will likely only be two 5-star stages (by your own estimation) , with the latter not being THAT hard by Giro standards with ~4500m of climbing according to the profile I saw. I don't think it's likely that the second one will be contested, either. The winner will probably be known after Bormio, barring crashes. I think it will be a hard route, though, and obviously the hardest of the 3 GTs, but I expected it to be even harder.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Why do people keep thinking the double is likelier with easy routes?
Also, why do people keep thinking this Giro has an easy route?

1. Froome almost won the Tour - Vuelta double, even when contesting the Olympics RR & TT in between. That wouldn't have been possible if the Vuelta would have had a healthy amount of multiple mountain stages.

The Giro- Tour double is obviously much harder, but their routes can be neutered in ways that it becomes it less unlikely.

2. I don;t know. Maybe because there will likely only be two 5-star stages (by your own estimation) , with the latter not being THAT hard by Giro standards with ~4500m of climbing according to the profile I saw. I don't think it's likely that the second one will be contested, either. The winner will probably be known after Bormio, barring crashes. I think it will be a hard route, though, and obviously the hardest of the 3 GTs, but I expected it to be even harder.

By my standards this year's Giro would have had only 2 5-star stages as well (Corvara and S.Anna). 2015 would have had 3 just because of the ITT (Aprica and Cervinia). Next year there will be many more 4-stars I'd say. Also, next year there will be between 7 and 9 proper HCs on the route, against the 5 of 2016 and 2015.
"The winner will be probably known after the queen stage", well, duh. Still there will be plenty of terrain where the leader will be forced to be on his toes.

As for point 1 I do not really agree, but that's more of an opinion of mine and it's also a bit OT.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Wow, these rumors sound very good. If true, this could turn out to be a really good and balanced route.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Stage 6: Pizzo Calabro - Terme Luigiane
Stage 7: Castrovillari - Alberobello
http://www.paese24.it/41236/sport/g...llino-partenza-di-tappa-da-castrovillari.html

Pizzo Calabro is just their guess though. Besides that, it"s not like they give us any new info...

Huh, not sure if I'd like Pizzo, the climbs directly around it are on the whole quite shallow unless the Giro wants to go up a really narrow street.

That would just be the start of the stage ending in Terme Luigiane... so the climbs around it would not matter one bit.
edit: Leaked planimetry for stage 5 (Pedara - Messina). It will be mostly flat. and around 150-160 km long

Yeah my bad, I read it as the stage was finishing in Pizzo

 

[Eshnar]

Blockhaus from Roccamorice confirmed by local administrators. Still unclear how high the finish will be, but I would rule Passo Lanciano out.
Finally, after all these years *sniff*

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

In Italian TV they sad the last stage is probably an ITT with finish in Milano.

Disastrous if true - Weekends in GT's should be reserved for exciting stages.

Disastrous to you if true. I think the majority, lets say 90%, would prefer watching a ITT compared to sprint even if it was only for minor placing (unless its a Vuelta 2014 debacle, but it won't be). And if its close and the lead actually can change, you might be the only one on the forum.

We get it. You dislike, nay, hate time trials.

It's also a case that weekend stages should be the most interesting for spectators and TV audiences - And TT's or flat sprint stages are not the best stages for weekends - Now I sounding like LS - I've posted that every GT should have a TTT to test the strength, versatility and teamwork of teams but for some reason a ITT is suitable, but a TTT is unsuitable - Strange logic.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Why do people keep thinking the double is likelier with easy routes?
Also, why do people keep thinking this Giro has an easy route?

Agree - Recent history shows the Giro is the toughest of the 3 GT's - Riders have given up trying to ride for GC at the Giro and the TDF.

 

[Stromeon]

Re:

Blockhaus from Roccamorice confirmed by local administrators. Still unclear how high the finish will be, but I would rule Passo Lanciano out.
Finally, after all these years *sniff*

Awesome news, it's a monster of a climb from that side. Lots of space at Passo della Maielletta (marked at >Passo Lanciano) for a finish there but I hope they go all the way up

 

[Gigs_98]

Seriously, this is a superb route before the last 4 stages but then they completely f**** it up
Make the piancavallo stage as stage 18, the grappa stage as stage 19 and then fedaia-Pordoi on stage 20. that would make it one of the best gt routes of the last decade.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

When else?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

When else?

I dunno. Few days later maybe. Complete climb seems a bit too likely to decide the GC after 9 days imo. I'd prefer a descent finish anyway here, especially as Etna is a MTF already.

If they're gonna do both Etna and Blockhaus that high in the first 9 days, that TT should be bigger than it's gonna be.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

When else?

I dunno. Few days later maybe. Complete climb seems a bit too likely to decide the GC after 9 days imo. I'd prefer a descent finish anyway here, especially as Etna is a MTF already.

If they're gonna do both Etna and Blockhaus that high in the first 9 days, that TT should be bigger than it's gonna be.

Thats certainly right.
I have another opinion about the rest though, but I understand your standpoint. Still the giro has never been decided early since 2011 because usually the time gaps on the mtf's before the alps aren't that big. Therefore I'm very happy about two mtf's early and let's not forget that the 2nd week is relatively easy, so a hard 1st one definitely makes sense.

 

[Red Rick]

True, but I think they've rarely finished on beasts like those on stages 4 and 9. Now Etna I can see ridden passively with only a few KM of action, but this beast is not just a HC climb. If you're gonna do this, I'd prefer it in one of those rare Giro's that doesn't have the 3rd week in the North.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

It's also a case that weekend stages should be the most interesting for spectators and TV audiences - And TT's or flat sprint stages are not the best stages for weekends - Now I sounding like LS - I've posted that every GT should have a TTT to test the strength, versatility and teamwork of teams but for some reason a ITT is suitable, but a TTT is unsuitable - Strange logic.

I would never post that every GT should have a TTT. I would argue the exact opposite. TTTs should be standalone events only, or be sent back to track cycling where they belong. You can produce tougher rouleur challenges without resorting to the TTT, and it does nothing for a race an ITT wouldn't do better, other than look kinda cool and vary teams' selections (which better rouleur stages would do too anyway).

The thing about weekend stages is, they are the hooks. Those are the stages with the biggest potential audience, the best chance of picking up new or casual fans as well as the stages where the highest number of the sport's regular fans are able to watch live, because most of us are on a Monday to Friday working week, the majority of cycling fans are in a time zone that doesn't let them watch live unless they take time off work, and don't have nine weeks of holiday to spend on the GTs let alone secondary stage races or important Classics that take place mid-week like E3 and La Flèche Wallonne. This is why, ideally, they should always provide something that is significant in the overall story of the race, to entice people to want to follow the rest of the plot to see what happens. If you switch on and see 90 minutes of the bunch riding together before the sprint, that's not good TV.

Now, mid-week, that's less of a problem, because many people in their day to day life don't have 90 minutes a day to devote to watching cycling, so if they can condense it down to a few minutes on a sprint stage and do something else while they wait for the exciting finale then all the better. At the weekend, you can draw the fans in over a long period of time, so it makes sense to produce stages with the likelihood that as much of that event as possible will create action because then people will switch the coverage on earlier, which means that fans will see more of the race and therefore make that part of the race more attractive to advertisers. We all know when we see a pan-flat stage profile that isn't exposed to crosswinds and doesn't include sterrato, cobbles or any similar obstacle, switching on coverage with two and a half hours left to ride is pretty pointless. On a stage with a profile like the 2017 one to Chambéry, however, you know, it will be worth seeing who makes the various break moves, who has men up the road, whose domestiques are being shelled on the early climbs, and so on. There's a reason for fans to tune in early and stay tuned in.

Remember, in 2011, people at work will have missed Andy Schleck's epic move, and the Galibier/Alpe d'Huez battles live. I know. I was one of them.

Meanwhile, on the penultimate Sunday, we got full coverage of this:

I didn't watch it. Once I realised echelons weren't going to happen, I decided to only tune in near the end for the sprint itself, then ended up doing something else and forgot about it. That sure as hell wouldn't have happened two hours from the end of the Galibier stage.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

When else?

I dunno. Few days later maybe. Complete climb seems a bit too likely to decide the GC after 9 days imo. I'd prefer a descent finish anyway here, especially as Etna is a MTF already.

If they're gonna do both Etna and Blockhaus that high in the first 9 days, that TT should be bigger than it's gonna be.

It's not just the length at all, but also whether or not the ITT is designed to minimize time gaps, as they have often been in recent GTs. I wonder if it's a more or less straight ahead TT this time, or if it will have lots of cornering once again, as is often the case in the Giro.

I have no idea, but somehow I doubt they're willing to really stick it to the relatively popular Fabio Aru, with an almost straight-ahead, flat ~40km TT.

Blockhaus is great, BTW, and would be great at any point in the race. I wouldn't mind a hard stage on the very first day. I'd rather the riders be tested over three weeks than that they can peak for the second half of the race. Hopefully the stage won't be cut short this time.

 

[Eshnar]

The ITT is much less twisty than this year's one. There is a tricky section halfway of 10 km, but the rest is TTer friendly.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure I want to see Blockhaus in it's entirety so early in the Giro.

When else?

In 1968 it was stage 21 of 22.

I still like the idea behind the Giri of 1968 and 2009 and would love it to finish in Palermo one day. But I guess, I am the only one.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

The ITT is much less twisty than this year's one. There is a tricky section halfway of 10 km, but the rest is TTer friendly.

I just put the locations from your profile a few pages back in Google Maps and it still seems unnecessarily twisty, but indeed much less so than usual. Aru won't like this one.

 

[Ataraxus]

Seriously, this is a superb route before the last 4 stages but then they completely f**** it up
Make the piancavallo stage as stage 18, the grappa stage as stage 19 and then fedaia-Pordoi on stage 20. that would make it one of the best gt routes of the last decade.

If they use Salto della Capra side as the penultimate climb of the day, the Grappa stage will definitely be a worthy penultimate stage of the Giro.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Seriously, this is a superb route before the last 4 stages but then they completely f**** it up
Make the piancavallo stage as stage 18, the grappa stage as stage 19 and then fedaia-Pordoi on stage 20. that would make it one of the best gt routes of the last decade.

If they use Salto della Capra side as the penultimate climb of the day, the Grappa stage will definitely be a worthy penultimate stage of the Giro.

http://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/81035
^ Is this the likely profile? If so, it could have been much better, IMO. The 2 hardest stages in this year's edition were much better designed than the Bormio and Grappa stages, IMO, but to each his own.

 

[Ricco']

Seriously, this is a superb route before the last 4 stages but then they completely f**** it up
Make the piancavallo stage as stage 18, the grappa stage as stage 19 and then fedaia-Pordoi on stage 20. that would make it one of the best gt routes of the last decade.

If they use Salto della Capra side as the penultimate climb of the day, the Grappa stage will definitely be a worthy penultimate stage of the Giro.

http://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/81035
^ Is this the likely profile? If so, it could have been much better, IMO. The 2 hardest stages in this year's edition were much better designed than the Bormio and Grappa stages, IMO, but to each his own.

Wasn't it a double ascention of Grappa?

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

The thing they've called Monte Grappa there is actually Bocca di Forca or Salto della Capra. The mountain plateau/ridge of Monte Grappa has a million roads going up to it and various different names used to describe the different climbs. So it's kind of chaotic to see what they're doing exactly, but the side that's used in that profile is really brutal and steep with extended >10% sections. If they use any side of Bocca di Forca/Salto della Capra/whatever it's called, it could be a decent stage, because all of it is pretty brutal and steep. Putting such a climb far out in the final mountain stage is good idea. But I have no idea what the stage will actually be like, I also thought the rumour was some gimmicky 2 times Monte Grappa nonsense.