Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[DirtyWorks]

Is the Bio-Passport a Joke Yet?

I'd also like to point out how JTL has "never tested positive" yet definitively crossed AAF thresholds. This is another sterling example of why the bio-passport is theater.

It would have been up to BC (at least) at some point to do something regarding the suspicious values as someone at BC has access to his results and the fact they were irregular enough to be flagged as sufficient for an AAF. Hmmm. Funny how BC did nothing. Oh wait, BC's success is tied to Sky's success. Can't let doping get in the way of glory. Winning fixes everything!

My guess is like Race Radio's. A parting shot from Pat while he was still in office. There's no question the UCI could send dozens of non-positive-but-still-tripped-some-positive-parameters-and-the-sports-federation-does-not-want-to-sanction letters.

Bio-passport is anti-doping theater to control doping controversy and prevent athletes from killing themselves. A lifetime of possible health consequences is okay though.

 

[gooner]

I'd also like to point out how JTL has "never tested positive" yet definitively crossed AAF thresholds. This is another sterling example of why the bio-passport is theater.

It would have been up to BC (at least) at some point to do something regarding the suspicious values as someone at BC has access to his results and the fact they were irregular enough to be flagged as sufficient for an AAF. Hmmm. Funny how BC did nothing. Oh wait, BC's success is tied to Sky's success.

My guess is like Race Radio's. A parting shot from Pat while he was still in office. There's no question the UCI could send dozens of non-positive-but-still-tripped-some-positive-parameters-and-the-sports-federation-does-not-want-to-sanction letters.

Bio-passport is anti-doping theater to control doping controversy and prevent athletes from killing themselves. A lifetime of possible health consequences is okay though.

I'd put nothing past the UCI but JTL's agent is Andrew McQuaid. I couldn't see him doing that to one of his own son's clients. If he was to, it would be a different Sky/British rider I would assume.

EDIT: Having said that, Kennaugh and Stannard are also clients of his.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'd put nothing past the UCI but JTL's agent is Andrew McQuaid. I couldn't see him doing that to one of his own son's clients. If he was to, it would be a different Sky/British rider I would assume.

EDIT: Having said that, Kennaugh and Stannard are also clients of his.

haha. You cannot make this stuff up. This is why Pro Cycling can never be a sport in the sense the game being played is somehow legitimate. It's equivalent to entertainment wrestling.

I have no doubt Andrew has other cycling-related consultancy income. Perfectly normal when your father was the president of a worldwide sports federation.

 

[DirtyWorks]

This is exactly what I was going to say, modern doping is very expensive.

No. A thousand times no. It's not expensive. It's risky, but not expensive. The days of steroids and expensive EPO are probably gone. HGH has been mostly replaced with cheap and mostly legit elitropins or riptropins. (check the spelling on those)

The risk is in messing with your body's normal parameters and bloodwork.
http://www.healthtestingcenters.com/hgh.aspx $79 USD for an HGH ratio test. Look further down that page. Dozens of tests used to check you don't cross WADA thresholds.
Try saveonlabs.com or privatemdlabs.com too.

The tests themselves are cheap with plenty of totally legal public services to run them. Perhaps another risk is if the lab's process isn't WADA compliant.

Note, I said compliant, not certified. WADA's standards are public documents. A lab could set up to run tests just like a WADA lab. It's going to be a little more expensive, but the tests themselves are commercial products anyway. So everything an athlete and lab needs to never test positive is available. Just don't fail the rudimentary IQ test.

 

[zigmeister]

Just as I suspected. Garmin did some testing on this character. Sky had access to this guy also for testing, but haven't said anything. Just a conversation that they thing there is nothing to worry about with this guy.

"In a statement issued on Tuesday, Endura Racing claimed that, “JTL joined Endura Racing in January 2012 and, when it became clear he had WordTour potential, was made available to Team Garmin-Sharp in April for physiological tests. No adverse results were reported back."

Tiernan-Locke’s former team go on to state that he attended a Sky training camp in May and that, “Team Sky had full access to JTL from the point it was agreed for him to train with them at this camp. This includes the period covering the last quarter of 2012. According to JTL, he undertook physiological tests for Team Sky directly after the World Championships in 2012 and although Endura never received any data from these tests, neither was anything raised by Team Sky as unusual or concerning.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/end...gically-tested-by-sky-during-passport-anomaly




Yeah...Sky is on the up and up as we thought....

 

[sniper]

...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/end...gically-tested-by-sky-during-passport-anomaly

Yeah...Sky is on the up and up as we thought....

Was this addressed in Walsh's piece?

According to JTL, he undertook physiological tests for Team Sky directly after the World Championships in 2012 and although Endura never received any data from these tests, neither was anything raised by Team Sky as unusual or concerning.”

 

[Eyeballs Out]

"physiological tests" - unless anyone expands on what this actually involved it appears meaningless

 

[King Boonen]

"physiological tests" - unless anyone expands on what this actually involved it appears meaningless

No it isn't. Garmin did the same and it's a well known term for dope testing. It seems Sky are lying or at least not telling the whole truth. It's worded so he can back out of it but it's quite clear what he means. Chances are any tests Garmin and Sky did wouldn't show anything out of the ordinary, especially compared to past tests, so why they are lying/holding back is very interesting.

 

[oldcrank]

I think its pretty common knowledge that Brian was looked after by someone with a dodgy history.

He was a handy pro but never had the cleanest of reps, since he was amateur. Ask around anyone racing pro in the uk on the 90s and I'm sure you'll find some details.

It seems you are backing off your "same doc as Ben Johnson"
statement a little bit now. Why is that?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

No it isn't. Garmin did the same and it's a well known term for dope testing. It seems Sky are lying or at least not telling the whole truth. It's worded so he can back out of it but it's quite clear what he means. Chances are any tests Garmin and Sky did wouldn't show anything out of the ordinary, especially compared to past tests, so why they are lying/holding back is very interesting.

Maybe it is. It's also a well known term for ... er.. physiological tests. Such as an ECG, stepping on a set of scales or taking a temperature. Why not be specific ?

 

[JimmyFingers]

JTL's adverse finding triggering the possible PB violation is by comparing his baseline values from this season against the ones taken at the end of last season.

So it's taken a year for the testing process to pick up on it, how were Sky supposed to pick up on it during their physiological tests? And of course neither did Garmin. Because neither had baseline values to compare it against.

Whether Sky dopes or not is one thing, but it seems there is a determination to show the team in the darkest light possible at every given turn. They're just a cycling team, seriously.

To me the fact his baseline values this year are lower are indicative that if anything he has been racing clean with Sky once he came under the auspices of the BP rather than get on their super secret special sauce. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of the mud slinging and character assassination.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Was this addressed in Walsh's piece?

Here are some bits from the Walsh piece:

The irony for Team Sky is that according to what The Sunday Times has learnt, Tiernan-Locke’s suspicious values relate to the final four months of last year when he was riding for Endura, a UCI Continental team. He has performed disappointingly for Team Sky and been unable to reproduce the form that won him a contract.

Because Endura competed at the lower Continental level, theirs riders were not part of the biological passport data system. Only when Tiernan-Locke had his greatest victory, in last season’s Tour of Britain, did he start having regular blood tests. Values recorded in the four months before the end of 2012 were not deemed sufficiently suspicious to trigger an investigation but since joining Team Sky in January, Tiernan-Locke has been routinely blood-tested.

This year’s tests gave the authorities the information to establish what they believe to be the rider’s normal values and they are now asking him to explain the higher-than-normal values from his pre-Sky days....

and this bit:

Tiernan-Locke’s form in those early season races, after his fifth place in the Tour of Britain the previous season, attracted the interest of some of the best teams on the elite World Tour. Team Sky and the US-back Garmin team were especially keen to sign him. Tiernan-Locke went for a week’s training with the Sky team in Tenerife and on March 26 last year he had blood and physiological testing with the Garmin operation.

Those tests showed his blood values were unremarkable and that his physiological values were nothing special. From the tests, it was clear he had ability but not the kind to suggest he would be winning a lot of races.

But then in July, Tiernan-Locke won two stages and the general classification at the Tour Alsace and from there, he went on to become the first home rider to win the modern-day Tour of Britain.

That victory was soon followed by the news that he would ride for Team Sky in 2013, and with that came regular blood testing for the rider. Brailsford would have spoken with John Herety, who worked with Tiernan-Locke at Rapha Condor, and Julian Winn who was director sportif at Endura when the rider was blazing a trail in the south of France early last season. It is believed they harboured no doubts about Tiernan-Locke’s ethics.

Sky were also aware that the rider was blood-tested by Garmin and that the American team were satisfied by what they found. Garmin were still interested in signing Tiernan-Locke after the March 26 blood tests last year.

Seemingly, Brailsford and his management team did not give much weight or were not aware of the doubts expressed in L’Equipe when that paper reported on Tiernan-Locke.

I don't see anything in the piece that mentions whether Walsh spoke with Endura, there is no statement in it from them regarding this matter.

 

[Daniel Benson]

Complaint regarding allegations around Brian Smith. Deleted some posts, so unless you have proof to back up claims, keep them off this thread.

Ok... carry on...

Dan

 

[pmcg76]

JTL's adverse finding triggering the possible PB violation is by comparing his baseline values from this season against the ones taken at the end of last season.

So it's taken a year for the testing process to pick up on it, how were Sky supposed to pick up on it during their physiological tests? And of course neither did Garmin. Because neither had baseline values to compare it against.

Whether Sky dopes or not is one thing, but it seems there is a determination to show the team in the darkest light possible at every given turn. They're just a cycling team, seriously.

To me the fact his baseline values this year are lower are indicative that if anything he has been racing clean with Sky once he came under the auspices of the BP rather than get on their super secret special sauce. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of the mud slinging and character assassination.

Not defending SKY or Garmin here but I tend to agree with this. A one-off test surely doesn't really tell anyone anything unless a rider has a high ht or something. Surely a series of test's is needed to draw any conclusions and I am sure that guys would know that. If a series of test's were indeed conducted then yes, the team's doing the testing would have more responsibility, in this case SKY/Garming though it seem's like SKY had far more contact with JTL.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I'd put nothing past the UCI but JTL's agent is Andrew McQuaid. I couldn't see him doing that to one of his own son's clients. If he was to, it would be a different Sky/British rider I would assume.

EDIT: Having said that, Kennaugh and Stannard are also clients of his.

Tin foil hat on:

Maybe someone at the UCI is tired of Andrew's clients getting a free pass during Pat's regime, and leaked this?

Tin foil hat off.

Who knows what really goes on in Aigle?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I find it ironic that we're told here that the testing process is useless and easily evaded, yet suddenly Sky and Garmin were supposed to pick up on any doping through a short exposure to the rider and some vague in-house tests.

So does the testing work or not? If it doesn't then you can't have pops at teams for failing to identify suspicious values.

 

[sniper]

Here are some bits from the Walsh piece:


and this bit:


I don't see anything in the piece that mentions whether Walsh spoke with Endura, there is no statement in it from them regarding this matter.

thanks alot beechmtn.
Operation Limited Hangout painfully exposed here.

 

[sniper]

I find it ironic that we're told here that the testing process is useless and easily evaded, yet suddenly Sky and Garmin were supposed to pick up on any doping through a short exposure to the rider and some vague in-house tests.

So does the testing work or not? If it doesn't then you can't have pops at teams for failing to identify suspicious values.

Good point.
question remains though why, if sky tested him in2012 already, theyre pretending they havent.

 

[Beech Mtn]

You do not get a funded place on the GB U23 program without being tested a lot at Manchester. BC/Sky had plenty of information on him. Might not be bio-passport compatible, but there is no way his change of career trajectory in 2012 would not strike them as strange as it did so many of the rest of us. Such a change would surely then generate the questions - how ?

Just like hiring Barry or Leniders, know what you must not ask and you don't get any lies - easy init !

Thought this was a good point. I hope some journalist will ask whether Sky/BC have data on JTL going back years like this, and if BC shares that data with Sky, and did Brailsford et al look at that data prior to hiring JTL. Basically just ask Brailsford how much data, from what sources (Garmin, BC, etc) and timeframes did they look at to evaluate JTL's potential. And why such decisions were made or not made.

 

[EnacheV]

Complaint regarding allegations around Brian Smith. Deleted some posts, so unless you have proof to back up claims, keep them off this thread.

Ok... carry on...

Dan

So i guess Clinic 12 members should thank team Sky and some other entities, because we see that only 1 mail is enough for the forum to be practically shut down.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Good point.
question remains though why, if sky tested him in2012 already, theyre pretending they havent.

Where are they doing that exactly? And how do we know they didn't? He was having regular blood tests at the end of 2012 season, and it's the disparity between those and the ones this season that has caused the UCI to write and ask him to explain them. I don't know how Sky or Garmin are supposed to be able to pick up the same suspicious values from ambiguous testing either did in April and May last year.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I find it ironic that we're told here that the testing process is useless and easily evaded, yet suddenly Sky and Garmin were supposed to pick up on any doping through a short exposure to the rider and some vague in-house tests.

So does the testing work or not? If it doesn't then you can't have pops at teams for failing to identify suspicious values.

And in a similar vein, if teams' internal testing doesn't work, maybe they should quit trumpeting it about as a great proof of their cleanliness? And likewise save some money.

While it appears Garmin had short exposure to JTL, I'm not sure the same can be said for Sky, given their close relationship to British Cycling.

 

[pmcg76]

Thought this was a good point. I hope some journalist will ask whether Sky/BC have data on JTL going back years like this, and if BC shares that data with Sky, and did Brailsford et al look at that data prior to hiring JTL. Basically just ask Brailsford how much data, from what sources (Garmin, BC, etc) and timeframes did they look at to evaluate JTL's potential. And why such decisions were made or not made.

I don't know if JTL was ever part of BC though, from what I know he came to cycling pretty late, progressed rapidly in his first season on the road and made the British team for the Worlds U-23, then moved to France to compete before contracting an illness and packing it in. Don't think he was ever officially part of BC apart from riding the Worlds, I may be wrong but anyone who knows better can correct me.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Well, well, well.

Endura Racing previously made attempts to arrange for additional spontaneous testing for its riders through UKAD. Unfortunately this request was rejected however Endura Racing’s willingness to fund additional testing to expose its riders to a more prolific test regime than the mandatory requirements is clear evidence of Endura’s position on the matter.

Endura, with the full support of JTL, also made a request to the UCI to be allowed to pay to have him put on a biological passport in order to counter the rumours of PEDs that circulated after his wins in Tour Méditerranéen and Tour du Haut Var in early season racing during 2012 however this request was refused by the UCI.

Source

If a team is willing to pay for additional testing, why in the world would an anti-doping body (UKAD) or the UCI refuse to do so? Other than a desire to hide doping? What am I missing here?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I find it ironic that we're told here that the testing process is useless and easily evaded,

Not useless, but probably keeps athletes from killing themselves doping.

yet suddenly Sky and Garmin were supposed to pick up on any doping through a short exposure to the rider and some vague in-house tests.

So does the testing work or not? If it doesn't then you can't have pops at teams for failing to identify suspicious values.

I think you are confusing various media outlets perpetual pretending that the bio passport is effective with the reality that it is so ineffective at least JV is testing riders for doping clues prior to offering contracts. Meanwhile, WADA is still complaining the sports federations are hiding positives.

So, yeah, lots of problems with the bio-passport despite the fantasies retold in this case by CN.