Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[staubsauger]

Carapaz has completely fallen apart after his 2nd place at the 2022 Giro d'Italia indeed.

Of course Hindley can top 10 a Tour de France. Evenepoel however might podium this year's, unless he cracks entirely again in the Pyrenees!

Landa was 3rd at the 2022 Giro d'Italia.

I don't think the level at the Giro d'Italia has been higher than at the Vuelta a Espana in recent years.

Ayuso is under pressure. He needs to deliver. His presence at the Tour de France and the way he has ridden it before his illness actually only increased the pressure to deliver and justify his ambition. I'm pretty clear and harsh on that one.

 

[KZD]

Serhiy Honchar finished 2nd at the 2004 Giro d'Italia behind Damiano Cunego. He has beaten Gilberto Simoni however by reeling him back in up towards Bormio 2000. He also was ahead of Popovych, already before the Ukrainian cracked completely.

Almeida finished 3rd at the 2024 Giro d'Italia behind grandpa Thomas and Primoz Roglic who was far from his best, apart from the Lussari MTT! Almeida reached the podium in a piss poor Giro d'Italia due to Tao Geoghegan Hart crashing and Evenepoel falling ill.

He has zero acceleration, hence can't attack and create a gap in the mountains. He can only limit his losses and hope Lady lucks adds up to reach a podium.

Ayuso got a 3rd place at the 2022 Vuelta a Espana aged 19. Benefitted from Roglic crashing out and Rodriguez injuring himself of course. But Ayuso himself struggled with Covid-19 ahead of the La Pandera stage. At the 2024 Vuelta a Espana he finished 4th after a nearly complete lackluster season that only started in late April. So he never reached full sharpness and neither development in that season. Still won on Albulapass at the Tour de Suisse however. If it wasn't for Jumbo playing shenanigans with the entire Vuelta field however by placing gc Kuss into that breakaway, Ayuso would have been 3rd again. So he kinda got the podium in 2022 already that he should have gotten in 2023. Despite Almeida being a shitty teammate like always on Angliru.

So no, Almeida doesn't deserve leadership at the 2024 Vuelta a Espana. At least not on a team like UAE. If he goes to a team like Israel or Tudor and becomes their Top 5 general classification rider, then yes. But not on UAE.

Ayuso himself however better starts praying that this Covid-19 infection won't harm him any longer. Because yes, he has to be fully prepared and needs to fulfill his potential this fall at the Vuelta a Espana. Otherwise he no longer can be described as a potential Grand Tour winner for 2025. He needs to turn this mishap into his luck now.

Almeida however isn't a potential Grand Tour winner. Neither was Serhiy Honchar!

A lot of words to expose a clear anti-Almeida bias.

Sure he has no punch, but you say that Almeida got into the Giro 2023 podium because it was a piss poor edition and that had Lady luck on his side but what about the Giro 2022 when Almeida was on route to the podium before dropping out with covid?

Plus I will go as far as to stay that if Almeida had been the UAE leader in this year's Giro he would have likely won the race given the very high level that he showed both in Tour de Suisse and now in the Tour de France where he sits 4th overall, being well ahead of Ayuso before he dropped out sick.

You also have the facts wrong regarding the Vuelta 2022, Ayuso was not sick during Sierra de la Pandera, he had instead a puncture that cost him some 20/30 seconds and his covid diagnosis was known earlier on that week (stage 11). And while finishing on a Grand Tour podium at 19 (almost turning 20) is impressive he was still minutes behind Evenepoel in the overall unlike Almeida in last year's Giro.

For me both Ayuso and Almeida are very talented riders that deserve GT leadership as long as Pogačar is not riding however in this Tour, Almeida was showing a higher level than Ayuso and at least he was not hanging on the back when he had to work for Pogačar (so much for the shitty teammate...)

 

[staubsauger]

A lot of words to expose a clear anti-Almeida bias.

Sure he has no punch, but you say that Almeida got into the Giro 2023 podium because it was a piss poor edition and that had Lady luck on his side but what about the Giro 2022 when Almeida was on route to the podium before dropping out with covid?

Plus I will go as far as to stay that if Almeida had been the UAE leader in this year's Giro he would have likely won the race given the very high level that he showed both in Tour de Suisse and now in the Tour de France where he sits 4th overall, being well ahead of Ayuso before he dropped out sick.

You also have the facts wrong regarding the Vuelta 2022, Ayuso was not sick during Sierra de la Pandera, he had instead a puncture that cost him some 20/30 seconds and his covid diagnosis was known earlier on that week (stage 11). And while finishing on a Grand Tour podium at 19 (almost turning 20) is impressive he was still minutes behind Evenepoel in the overall unlike Almeida in last year's Giro.

For me both Ayuso and Almeida are very talented riders that deserve GT leadership as long as Pogačar is not riding however in this Tour, Almeida was showing a higher level than Ayuso and at least he was not hanging on the back when he had to work for Pogačar (so much for the shitty teammate...)

Ayuso must have been affected by illness already on Wednesday in retrospective. He cracked there and 2 days later has to abandon the race sick. Before he actually was AHEAD of Almeida. Despite having already abandoned the Dauphine while Almeida indeed had a superb buildup via the Tour de Suisse. That doesn't exactly work in Almeidas favor. The Portuguese clearly was stronger in the TT however. On a terrain that actually should have suited Ayuso.

The level of the 2022 Giro d'Italia was so low, even Romain Bardet was a major general classification contender on Blockhaus before falling ill. The same Bardet was chancless in 2023 at the Tour de Suisse & Tour de Romandie even. Despite showing up there with ambition. He was good on Granon at the 2022 Tour de France however. I admit that.

Who knows how last year's Giro d'Italia would have played out if Evenepoel & Geoghegan Hart had stayed in the race? It probably would have been aggressively ridden instead of the conservative race we saw that heavily favored a diesel climber like Almeida.

The verdict whether Ayuso is a potential Grand Tour winner still has to be spoken. It might end up being a no. But for Almeida, the answer is already there. And it is a no so far.

 

[KZD]

Ayuso must have been affected by illness already on Wednesday in retrospective. He cracked there and 2 days later has to abandon the race sick. Before he actually was AHEAD of Almeida. Despite having already abandoned the Dauphine while Almeida indeed had a superb buildup via the Tour de Suisse. That doesn't exactly work in Almeidas favor. The Portuguese clearly was stronger in the TT however. On a terrain that actually should have suited Ayuso.

The level of the 2022 Giro d'Italia was so low, even Romain Bardet was a major general classification contender on Blockhaus before falling ill. The same Bardet was chancless in 2023 at the Tour de Suisse & Tour de Romandie even. Despite showing up there with ambition. He was good on Granon at the 2022 Tour de France however. I admit that.

Who knows how last year's Giro d'Italia would have played out if Evenepoel & Geoghegan Hart had stayed in the race? It probably would have been aggressively ridden instead of the conservative race we saw that heavily favored a diesel climber like Almeida.

The verdict whether Ayuso is a potential Grand Tour winner still has to be spoken. It might end up being a no. But for Almeida, the answer is already there. And it is a no so far.

Even if Ayuso was already affected by illness on Wednesday, he was just 1 second ahead of Almeida so they were very much on the same page before stage 11.

I just don’t see how you can say that a rider that finishes only 1:15min away from winning a GT, is not a potential GT winner especially when that rider is having probably his best performances ever in 2024. Almeida is not a worse rider than Hart or Hindley and both of them won the Giro.

Of course Ayuso is also a potential GT winner though I have to say that he doesn't seem to have improved much since the 2022 Vuelta that he podiumed but at least he has time on his side.

 

[staubsauger]

Even if Ayuso was already affected by illness on Wednesday, he was just 1 second ahead of Almeida so they were very much on the same page before stage 11.

I just don’t see how you can say that a rider that finishes only 1:15min away from winning a GT, is not a potential GT winner especially when that rider is having probably his best performances ever in 2024. Almeida is not a worse rider than Hart or Hindley and both of them won the Giro.

Of course Ayuso is also a potential GT winner though I have to say that he doesn't seem to have improved much since the 2022 Vuelta that he podiumed but at least he has time on his side.

Ayuso hasn't improved at all due to last year's late season entree calling off his expected development. Hence why he needs to deliver now at the 2024 Vuelta a Espana!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Del Toro will not be a GC threat. I don't think he's disciplined enough to not lose time unnecessarily based on what I have seen this year.

You also thought stage 11 should be softpedalled and wasn't hard enough to do anything and the break should just allowed 10 minutes up the road for fun. Del Toro is a formidable young rider which easily could top-10 or more in his first GT.

 

[staubsauger]

Isn't the Vuelta a Espana a bit more calm actually? Like they fully race out the finishes, but before positioning, crosswinds, the start etc isn't as heavy & important like in other races?

At least that's what Jens Voigt always claims.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Isn't the Vuelta a Espana a bit more calm actually? Like they fully race out the finishes, but before positioning, crosswinds, the start etc isn't as heavy & important like in other races?

At least that's what Jens Voigt always claims.

Jens Voigt has never ridden the Vuelta, so he‘s just guessing.

 

[ingsve]

You also thought stage 11 should be softpedalled and wasn't hard enough to do anything and the break should just allowed 10 minutes up the road for fun. Del Toro is a formidable young rider which easily could top-10 or more in his first GT.

Of course if he changes the way he rides then of course he has the capacity for something like that but then he has to show that first. And yes I still think it was greedy of UAE to make a race of that stage and I'll stand by that opinion.

 

[Peter von]

Isn't the Vuelta a Espana a bit more calm actually? Like they fully race out the finishes, but before positioning, crosswinds, the start etc isn't as heavy & important like in other races?

At least that's what Jens Voigt always claims.

Compared to the Tour: yes

Compared to Tour of Denmark: probably not

Probably also more relaxed than the Giro, but I think it applied more when Voigt was 25

 

[AnotherArmChair]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813687703650841074

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1813687703650841074

 

[scribers]

Given his form I think he could have done well in the vuelta. Yates and Almeida were stronger in June than they are now. I don’t think Mcnulty can effective 3 weeks. And del toro might be a bit young?

 

[Cookster15]

I hope Juan Ayuso is taking note of the much better job Almeida is doing and in doing so is now 4th on GC.

 

[scribers]

Jens Voigt has never ridden the Vuelta, so he‘s just guessing.

He obviously confused it with no one wants to hear what he thinks

 

[staubsauger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813687703650841074

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1813687703650841074

Well, there's the penalty for his shenanigans at the Tour de France and his completely wrong season planning!

Congratulations Ayuso for 2 consecutive lost years! Although last year he was slightly hampered by injury!

Good he was / is just 19/21. So it's not war decisive.

Ayuso basically had 1 job given his young age. Focus on the Vuelta a Espana, until he wins it or at least finishes a strong 2nd. And he completely ruined it!

 

[perico]

I mean for him personally this ironically is good as long as he doesn't have complications from this Covid-19 infection.

Ayuso is going to be fresh and in full shape for the 2024 Vuelta a Espana. Main-favorite depending on how soon Roglic is able to properly train for the race. Plus Mas who obviously rides himself in form for Spain at the Tour de France.

Ayuso won't be worn out from the Tour de France in Spain like potentially Rodriguez.

Question remains however: Was Ayuso fading already because of his illness? Or did he miss base and sharpness due to his early exit from the Dauphine?

It's no excuses however from here on. He needs to justify his ambition and fulfill his potential now. Everything else than 1st or 2nd at the 2024 Vuelta a Espana is a failure!

Arguably, since Roglic doesn't get any younger, Ayuso needs to be a Grand Tour winner this fall even!

I was 100% with you til the last part. Ayuso is 21 years old. He doesn’t have to worry about turning into Geraint Thomas anytime soon.

If it’s this year, that’s great. If not, he’s still got 4 years until he no longer qualifies for the white jersey.

 

[perico]

Limited in what sense? I mean Almeida is not super versatile but he is a very good climber and a good time trialist that already finished in a Grand Tour podium and currently sits in 4th place overall at the Tour. He deserves to be a leader at the Vuelta.

Anyway, the UAE team for the Vuelta is shaping up to be even more anarchic than the Tour one, Almeia, Yates, potentially Ayuso and Del Toro with McNulty in the mix as well.

If I was McNulty, I’d be looking to buy out of my contract. He’s the Ivan Sosa of UAE (not the same type of rider, but can’t buy his way onto a GT lineup at the moment)

 

[iBanesto]

How long is his contract with UAE?

His attitude seems perfect for Movistar.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

He obviously confused it with no one wants to hear what he thinks

Oh you know it's actually pretty funny often enough. For various reasons, because he is goofy, exited, makes a stupid joke, or just lives in an outright different reality. There's a plethora of possibilities, and like with ancient texts, there is an air of otherness, that forces you to make sense of this different reality if you want to appreciate it.

Quite a marvel.

 

[CyclistAbi]

"Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won’t do the Vuelta" - UAE team boss has no plans to send Juan Ayuso to ride the Spanish grand tour

While Tadej Pogacar has a pretty flawless Tour de France, the same cannot be said about his teammate Juan Ayuso. The Spaniard with a Vuelta a Espana podium finish in his palmares was intended to stay...

cyclinguptodate.com

Maybe time for Denk to make an offer!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

How long is his contract with UAE?

His attitude seems perfect for Movistar.

Yeah, i already mentioned that last week or so in a stage topic. Never got so many laughing reactions to a post that was meant to be completely serious: https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threa...-valloire-139-6-km.39781/page-38#post-3037904

 

[SHAD0W93]

"Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won’t do the Vuelta" - UAE team boss has no plans to send Juan Ayuso to ride the Spanish grand tour

While Tadej Pogacar has a pretty flawless Tour de France, the same cannot be said about his teammate Juan Ayuso. The Spaniard with a Vuelta a Espana podium finish in his palmares was intended to stay...

cyclinguptodate.com

Maybe time for Denk to make an offer!

Why? So you can be irritated at Ayuso next year and complain about how Roglic’s team isn’t setting him up again and actively riding against him? Maybe they should just trade and send Roglic to UAE.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why? So you can be irritated at Ayuso next year and complain about how Roglic’s team isn’t setting him up again and actively riding against him? Maybe they should just trade and send Roglic to UAE.

I never said Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe is actively riding against Rogla. For Ayuso i am sure that he would pull for Rogla and on top of that they are after next Max Verstappen of cycling, youngsters hence should be lining up.

P.S. As for Rogla changing teams again, no need for that ATM.

 

[Unchained]

I was 100% with you til the last part. Ayuso is 21 years old. He doesn’t have to worry about turning into Geraint Thomas anytime soon.

If it’s this year, that’s great. If not, he’s still got 4 years until he no longer qualifies for the white jersey.

I hope that your opinion is the majority. This tectonic shift to right now, 21 is long in the tooth, 21..you are running out of time. Maybe there is just some bizarre disconnect with numbers Remco..24, Pogacar 25 and Vingegaard 27..so in the scheme of things Ayuso has years of worry free development riding using current metrics. Any talk about any quality rider fitting at Movistar is garbage. Movistar is second tier..

 

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe there is just some bizarre disconnect with numbers Remco..24, Pogacar 25 and Vingegaard 27..

Roglič 34.