Jumbo - QuickStep merger

[Berniece]

I mostly wonder how unhealthy the cycling business model is if the best team in the world can't find a sponsor. Maybe the UCI should think about that some more because this should be a huge red flag for them. It probably won't because they are idiots, but nonetheless I hope that there's someone at the UCI that understands the gravity of this.

 

[stekelegel]

I just dont get it if this is just a financial operation. Unless QS has realised that they are paying some hasbeens way to much (alaphilippe, lampaert,…), they are paying some 2nd rate domestiques way to much and are still out of their league to compete in the Tour.
If that is the case, just sell remco to ineos, including some domestiques, allow soudal to leave after buying out their contract and then sell the team license. For QS owners this looks much more profitable? Everybody happy.
if they are talking about a merger that means they want Remco onboard and have a plan to make it work?
Lets not forget that Vinge is a commercially not very interesting, but remco is a sponsors dream.
Vinge and roglic (on his last legs) have made it work, winning 3 GT this year. They beat Pogi. Maybe they think they need remco to beat a top Pogi?

 

[theyoungest]

Vinge and roglic (on his last legs) have made it work, winning 3 GT this year. They beat Pogi. Maybe they think they need remco to beat a top Pogi?

No. They don't. This possible deal is not about Remco. It's about the sponsor. Remco would be a nice added bonus.

 

[joseph89]

Total Energies could be an option to offload a WT license and a block of riders & staff too. With sagan and his entourage leaving it frees up space and budget.

Alaphilippe & Merlier alone is a boost to their team.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Total Energies could be an option to offload a WT license and a block of riders & staff too. With sagan and his entourage leaving it frees up space and budget.

Alaphilippe & Merlier alone is a boost to their team.

Total have 19 riders announced (18 when you remove Sagan) so plenty of space here for a couple of top riders. I assume they should have a decent budget, but could it be a problem that Specialized is leaving and being replaced with KTM? I assume they pay less than what Specialized did with Sagan around.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I mostly wonder how unhealthy the cycling business model is if the best team in the world can't find a sponsor. Maybe the UCI should think about that some more because this should be a huge red flag for them. It probably won't because they are idiots, but nonetheless I hope that there's someone at the UCI that understands the gravity of this.

This. Except it's happened before, and will happen again. The UCI are pretty much powerless..

And here's the thing; the supposed biggest annual sporting event in the world (Le Tour) and the team who have won it the last two years are struggling to find a suitable sponsor. It can't be that much of a big thing, if this is the case. The 'blue chips' aren't interested.
One concludes, everyone in the sport has over estimated just how big the Tour actually is - and concentrating on that event is leading them nowhere.

ASO hold all the power, yet in global sporting terms they're nothing......

 

[joseph89]

Total have 19 riders announced (18 when you remove Sagan) so plenty of space here for a couple of top riders. I assume they should have a decent budget, but could it be a problem that Specialized is leaving and being replaced with KTM? I assume they pay less than what Specialized did with Sagan around.

I would tell KTM kick stones and call up Lapierre.

Merlier alone has more wins this season than their whole team combined.

 

[TrekCyclist]

Yes, it seems the blue chips are not so interested in cycling currenty. Some time ago, some of them were (Telekom, Discovery Chanel, Sky). Ineos was always a bit special (the sponsoring was kind of a special interest of the owner).
But it was always more medium enterprises in cycling.
The owner from Bora stated recently, how sponsoring the cycling team has benefited his business over the past years

 

[theyoungest]

This. Except it's happened before, and will happen again. The UCI are pretty much powerless..

And here's the thing; the supposed biggest annual sporting event in the world (Le Tour) and the team who have won it the last two years are struggling to find a suitable sponsor. It can't be that much of a big thing, if this is the case. The 'blue chips' aren't interested.
One concludes, everyone in the sport has over estimated just how big the Tour actually is - and concentrating on that event is leading them nowhere.

ASO hold all the power, yet in global sporting terms they're nothing......

There was an interesting quote on Wielerflits about the problems of cycling sponsorship:

"In 2017 I visited Floris Weisz at IMG's Asian headquarters in Singapore. He negotiates daily for worldwide TV rights for various major sports. Weisz emphasized that, globally, cycling is no bigger than handball and judo. Outside of nine European countries, only Australia, Japan, Colombia and to a lesser extent the United States are interested."

I think cycling fans probably overestimate how big the sport actually is. If I look at my own country, the Netherlands where it's supposedly the biggest sport (according to Tim Cook ), viewing numbers for cycling are actually quite low. And it's also never trending on Youtube or other social media, whereas football or Formula 1 are, constantly. Young people, and certainly minorities, don't care about cycling. They'll have vaguely heard there's a Dutch team that's doing quite well right now, but that's all they'll know about it.

 

[tobydawq]

There was an interesting quote on Wielerflits about the problems of cycling sponsorship:

"In 2017 I visited Floris Weisz at IMG's Asian headquarters in Singapore. He negotiates daily for worldwide TV rights for various major sports. Weisz emphasized that, globally, cycling is no bigger than handball and judo. Outside of nine European countries, only Australia, Japan, Colombia and to a lesser extent the United States are interested."

I think cycling fans probably overestimate how big the sport actually is. If I look at my own country, the Netherlands where it's supposedly the biggest sport (according to Tim Cook ), viewing numbers for cycling are actually quite low. And it's also never trending on Youtube or other social media, whereas football or Formula 1 are, constantly. Young people, and certainly minorities, don't care about cycling. They'll have vaguely heard there's a Dutch team that's doing quite well right now, but that's all they'll know about it.

I don't know. Based on my browsing history, cycling is far and away the most popular sport in the world.

 

[DNP-Old]

Lettuce be real about something: nobody gives a damn about F1, lol. They care about “Max”. If he retired today, the simpletons will have moved on to something new tomorrow.

 

[theyoungest]

Lettuce be real about something: nobody gives a damn about F1, lol. They care about “Max”. If he retired today, the simpletons will have moved on to something new tomorrow.

That's the same for every sport, of course. If Mathieu van der Poel weren't there, the Dutch really would not care about cycling anymore. Now he sort of keeps the interest alive. And if there's ever a Dutch contender to win the Tour again, that would help massively.

 

[Panda Claws]

I feel like they aren't taking the fans in account here.

 

[joseph89]

I'm starting to think this is a takeover and not a merger. To the public it's being sold as a merger but behind closed doors it's a takeover. Bakala (equity) & Lefevere(cash & board seat). Soudal have said they don't care who they win the TDF with and a takeover and their continued sponsorship gets them closer to a TDF win. Then there's remco, it makes no sense to merge and give SQS's most valuable asset a free wayout. A takeover means you have the option to set terms for either remco (2026) roglic (2025) to leave if another team is interested in signing them. There is also still value in the other riders left. Then JV can cherry pick who they like and offload the WT license including riders and staff to say Total Energies or someone else.

The money you get from selling remco to say ineos alone will cover most staff and rider salaries if you can't offload them to another team.

 

[danielovichdk2]

I'm starting to think this is a takeover and not a merger. To the public it's being sold as a merger but behind closed doors it's a takeover. Bakala (equity) & Lefevere(cash & board seat). Soudal have said they don't care who they win the TDF with and a takeover and their continued sponsorship gets them closer to a TDF win. Then there's remco, it makes no sense to merge and give SQS's most valuable asset a free wayout. A takeover means you have the option to set terms for either remco (2026) roglic (2025) to leave if another team is interested in signing them. There is also still value in the other riders left. Then JV can cherry pick who they like and offload the WT license including riders and staff to say Total Energies or someone else.

The money you get from selling remco to say ineos alone will cover most staff and rider salaries if you can't offload them to another team.

Or Jonas will leave ane take a few with him. Everyone thinks he simply stays. If Remco stays that is a very valid option imo

 

[Berniece]

Thomas weighed in on the podcast: Jumbo hates Remco, and Remco hates Jumbo. This won't work.

 

[samhocking]

Thomas's comment sounded like it was more in the context that it's Roglic who hates Remco, so by default Jumbo do too. Should Roglic go to Movistar or elsehwere, I'd think Plugge & Remco are smart-enough to work together.

 

[joseph89]

Or Jonas will leave ane take a few with him. Everyone thinks he simply stays. If Remco stays that is a very valid option imo

None of them can up and leave if they don't like the situation, unless they have a clause in their contracts. If they want out they would have to agree a fee with JV to release them.

 

[pastronef]

Thomas's comment sounded like it was more in the context that it's Roglic who hates Remco, so by default Jumbo do too. Should Roglic go to Movistar or elsehwere, I'd think Plugge & Remco are smart-enough to work together.

Rogla fans coming in 3..2..1 saying hate is not an emotion known to Primoz

 

[Salvarani]

Thomas's comment sounded like it was more in the context that it's Roglic who hates Remco, so by default Jumbo do too. Should Roglic go to Movistar or elsehwere, I'd think Plugge & Remco are smart-enough to work together.

It also just strategy from agent Thomas. I wouldnt believe what he says is true at all.

It is not a secret Ineos has been wanting Remco to come to them. Remco has even been on the podcast, right? They seem to get along pretty well.

Probably it is chaos behind the scenes at the moment.

 

[Samamba]

I mostly wonder how unhealthy the cycling business model is if the best team in the world can't find a sponsor. Maybe the UCI should think about that some more because this should be a huge red flag for them. It probably won't because they are idiots, but nonetheless I hope that there's someone at the UCI that understands the gravity of this.

There is a difference between not being able to find a sponsor in general and not being able to find a sponsor that gives you 20M euros a year. Of course they could find a regular sponsor, one that can replace Jumbo, but they're (probably) struggling to find a sponsor that pays enough money so that they can battle with UAE budget wise (which is impossible anyways cause they will just drop another 10 or 20M if needed). Western companies that can pay that kind of money must be huge and they often do not care about cycling or simply don't need the exposure, they already have the brand recognition that cycling can give them.

For example. It never was a problem for Lotto, a team that was complete utter shiit, to replace Soudal, cause Soudal only payed between 7 and 8M. Dstny now too. There's plenty of businesses that would want to pay that kind of money cause it's worth the exposure for a company that could use some brand recognition in Europe.

The problem isn't "survival" like media or Jumbo themselves make it seems, it's trying to find sponsors so that they can get an even bigger budget than they already have and can battle with UAE, which is like I said impossible anyways.

 

[pastronef]

None of them can up and leave if they don't like the situation, unless they have a clause in their contracts. If they want out they would have to agree a fee with JV to release them.

no, just 1 WT license will remain. riders not contracted to that can leave

 

[Tim Cahill]

Thomas and Rowe were just taking the piss with their comments

 

[theyoungest]

There is a difference between not being able to find a sponsor in general and not being able to find a sponsor that gives you 20M euros a year. Of course they could find a regular sponsor, one that can replace Jumbo, but they're (probably) struggling to find a sponsor that pays enough money so that they can battle with UAE budget wise (which is impossible anyways cause they will just drop another 10 or 20M if needed). Western companies that can pay that kind of money must be huge and they often do not care about cycling or simply don't need the exposure, they already have the brand recognition that cycling can give them.

20 million would mean a huge budget increase. Right now they get around 10 million from Jumbo, divided over multiple teams including speedskating. If they find a sponsor in the same range that would already be preferable over a merger, I would say.

Thomas weighed in on the podcast: Jumbo hates Remco, and Remco hates Jumbo. This won't work.

The whole MO of the Wolfpack is "us against the world". Remco thrives on that. But if he has the opportunity to join the best GC team at the moment, surely the "hate" will suddenly disappear.

 

[Samamba]

20 million would mean a huge budget increase. Right now they get around 10 million from Jumbo, divided over multiple teams including speedskating. If they find a sponsor in the same range that would already be preferable over a merger, I would say.

yeah we get you still believe Jumbo operates under a 20M budget, they do not. No one actually believes this apart from Dutch Jumbo fans. Not a single rider in the peloton believes, not a single other team (they also simply know), and not a single non-Dutch fan. It is impossible to have the talent they have and keep them with their so called mid tier budget. So either Jumbo pays more than that or the non-name sponsors are massively overpaying them.

If they were just trying to find a sponsor for 10M they would not have a single problem finding one.

And no, I'm not gonna get into this discussion again. Believe what you want. Jumbo Visma is a miracle team that can get away with underpaying every single rider they have, for some reason get free altitude camps, free ketones, free whatever other shiit they use, etc. Cause there's no way in hell they pay all that stuff with the budget you or Plugge claim they have.