JV talks, sort of

[Ferminal]

He was allegedly tested 13 times in 2009. I guess that would be 13 times in 6 months.

lol, that sounds like more than anyone.

 

[Ferminal]

No he says:

So, now my job is picking incredibly talented riders. Not running an illegal medical program. Much more fun. Not much margin for error, though! So, I better be good.

What about his riders might get beaten by someone who is doping to get to that 0.1 w/kg more than them.

It just gives the wrong impression IMO.

I like JV, I don't want to come across as someone who signed up just to have a dig at him. I really respect that the engages with fans.

Slipstream only has GT contenders who can reach that level naturally talented. Other GT contenders may need to dope to reach that level, but that does not preclude the Slipstream riders from beating them.

 

[blackcat]

No he says:

So, now my job is picking incredibly talented riders. Not running an illegal medical program. Much more fun. Not much margin for error, though! So, I better be good.

What about his riders might get beaten by someone who is doping to get to that 0.1 w/kg more than them.

It just gives the wrong impression IMO.

I like JV, I don't want to come across as someone who signed up just to have a dig at him. I really respect that the engages with fans.

ok. I see the temporal qualifier "now".

So, prey tell, what "WAS" the job description b4?

 

[JV1973]

Both Hrotha and Draks have made VERY valid points.

Pulling these numbers really does nothing to prove how clean the "new" cycling is. It only allows one to prove a rider's performance, based on certain parameters, and further based on history we know to be false.

What is "physiologicaly possible"? At this point we're sorta f*cked, since any objective values (time and speed) over the last twenty years are fouled by profound and systemic doping. And that's not a theory, it's been a proven fact.

I've vacillated between lauding JV and villifying him for a long time.

He's not great at making his point, but he is truly awesome at politics.

I'm waiting for a real TRC, and then we may know.

I'm a little offended.

I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for you.

My opinion: I make my point just fine, but I can't convince those who've already made up their mind.

And I'm actually complete crap at politics.

 

[JV1973]

ok. I see the temporal qualifier "now".

So, prey tell, what "WAS" the job description b4?

Dude, you have got to stop nitpicking. My old job was a real estate agent. Or going up climbs really fast with a 52% hct.

Those were my previous jobs.

 

[JV1973]

corrected this para

The minute I start using cute little colored text, just shoot me. Really. i mean that.

 

[JV1973]

ok, i'm relieved. for a moment there i though jv had gotten into your head


ok, i see. well it was still pretty newish to me. and from where i'm sitting (south germany) it's nice to see this little doping earthquake unfold in holland.


it's past my bedtime, but thanks for the tip, will check podcast tomorrow.
I always wondered if Mart doped as a basketball player.

Sniper, you've actually been a bit soft on me recently too. It's kind of nice. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[JV1973]

Yep, coz the supposed clean guy at least got 4th place whereby during iJV's racing years it would have been next to impossible. So there's progress made.

Mr. Asian, thank you for lending a logical approach to this forum.

 

[JV1973]

JV is part of the problem imo.

But the thing is, I'm the best option you've got. If you think I'm the problem, I would stop following the sport. i don't mean that is a self righteous way, just a very pragmatic one.

 

[JV1973]

That is in no way a level playing field. C'mon man, doping 101.

Will, your boilerplate is absolutely awesome. Keeps me inspired.

Where was this post? Can you get it framed for me? My 40th is June 10th.

 

[BroDeal]

But the thing is, I'm the best option you've got. If you think I'm the problem, I would stop following the sport. i don't mean that is a self righteous way, just a very pragmatic one.

Is one of you enough? Stapleton is gone, Brailsford's main interest seems to be maintaining a good PR stance while stuffing the pockets of himself and his BC friends with money from a commercial team, most of the other managers are old schoolers who would not have much of a problem with going back to the old ways, and the UCI cannot be trusted. What happens after you leave for a corporate payday?

What happened during the return of Armstrong in 2009 does not give us much confidence. Despite everyone claiming that everything was different since 2006 or 2007 or 2008 or whatever date the sport supposedly changed, no one spoke up to say this guy and his methods do not belong here anymore. Everyone looked at the potential media exposure and the money it would bring then kept quiet.

 

[Spider1964]

Will, your boilerplate is absolutely awesome. Keeps me inspired.

Where was this post? Can you get it framed for me? My 40th is June 10th.

40th!!! Gee whiz... Get rid of the Sideys dude.. They're ageing the heck outta ya.

Two questions.. Seeing as 5.9 seems to be the Holy Grail these days.. And Sky possessing 3-4 riders at that level by my reckoning... How does a team like yours find the "marginal gains" to, not only compete, but beat them?

Secondly.. Is the peloton a much happier scene to be around, without the perceived pressure to "dope to the eyeballs"?

 

[the asian]

But it should be or not?

.

you mean, like half pregnant. RoevWaderu486 and coat hangers.

Any sport will never be entirely clean or entirely credible.
It's unrealistic to expect such.

What can be achieved is an environment where clean athletes have a decent chance of winning and donkeys don't become racehorses.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Any sport will never be entirely clean or entirely credible.
It's unrealistic to expect such.

What can be achieved is an environment where clean athletes have a decent chance of winning and donkeys don't become racehorses.

We already have come to that conclusion. Yes it is cleaner, more believable.

But still I raise my eyebrowes on who is able to ride on 'the Holy Grail' wattages.

 

[the asian]

We already have come to that conclusion. Yes it is cleaner, more believable.

But still I raise my eyebrowes on who is able to ride on 'the Holy Grail' wattages.

Naturally talented clean riders and Dopers of super rich teams who have the means to cover up/control their dope.

 

[sniper]

We already have come to that conclusion. Yes it is cleaner, more believable.

But still I raise my eyebrowes on who is able to ride on 'the Holy Grail' wattages.

more believable how?
if Sky turn out to be doping, just think about how we're being lied to at present.
Arguably, the lying (Wiggo style, including family references, etc.) has become much more hardcore.

 

[sniper]

Any sport will never be entirely clean or entirely credible.
It's unrealistic to expect such.

What can be achieved is an environment where clean athletes have a decent chance of winning and donkeys don't become racehorses.

JV suggests we're already in that environment.

 

[sniper]

Note also that JV continues to defend the BP, even though it is obviously substantially flawed under UCI supervision.
At the same time, he's remarkably quiet on the topic of UCI mismanagement.

 

[Benotti69]

He can't do anything about other guys doping. According to his opinion his clean riders stand a chance of winning and that's a very big progression from when he was riding, as those days a clean rider stood no chance of winning.

His 'clean' riders only stand a chance of winning if they have LeMond abilities. How many LeMonds come along every few years?

You gonna compare a Hesjedal to LeMond?

This is the 'cleaner' cycling we are being told about.

Dope to the maximum natural level of a LeMond.

Well in my limited understanding of PEDs that benefits some one who can take more dope to get to that level.

We know the testing is sh!t so that does not seem to be a problem.

The TdF was/is won in the sports lab. The quacks doing the numbers on riders and implementing it. Sky had the best 'system' in 2012. Plus UCI cheering from the sidelines. That was obvious.

 

[the asian]

Note also that JV continues to defend the BP, even though it is obviously substantially flawed under UCI supervision.

The Biological Passport is a good concept. It is a deterrent to extensive doping, but it doesn't stop doping altogether.It does have it's flaws which need to be rectified but It's better to have it than not having it at all,

At the same time, he's remarkably quiet on the topic of UCI mismanagement.

Well obviously as a team manager he has to keep relatively quiet on that topic as his team may suffer the same fate as Katusha's and unlike Katusha's such a blow might be the death knell to his team.

 

[Ferminal]

What happens when a naturally talented rider dopes?

 

[the asian]

His 'clean' riders only stand a chance of winning if they have LeMond abilities. How many LeMonds come along every few years?

You gonna compare a Hesjedal to LeMond?

This is the 'cleaner' cycling we are being told about.

Dope to the maximum natural level of a LeMond.

Well in my limited understanding of PEDs that benefits some one who can take more dope to get to that level.

We know the testing is sh!t so that does not seem to be a problem.

The TdF was/is won in the sports lab. The quacks doing the numbers on riders and implementing it. Sky had the best 'system' in 2012. Plus UCI cheering from the sidelines. That was obvious.

With advancement's in sports sciences (Non Doping), and Bikes and Gear, I wouldn't be surprised if a naturally talented rider now can achieve similar numbers to LeMond's.
After all that is what is meant to be progress. I am sure it would be the case in the Pre EPO era.
LeMond's average Power output was usually around 5.7 W/KG and if riders are achieving 5.8/5.9 W/KG these days (some 20 years after Lemond) clean I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[the asian]

What happens when a naturally talented rider dopes?

You get Pantani/Contador like Numbers.

More than 6.5 W/KG on the Climbs.

The rest has no chance.

We are probably seeing it in this generation.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

What happens when a naturally talented rider dopes?

He can just sit on or near the front, cruising, all day. If someone attacks, he can up the tempo a bit with his doms and bring back the attacker. The next day, he can drop people with ease as he's never been stressed, never had to chase anyone down.

And then on the final day TT he can smash all and sundry. By 2+ minutes.

Probably.

 

[Benotti69]

With advancement's in sports sciences (Non Doping), and Bikes and Gear, I wouldn't be surprised if a naturally talented rider now can achieve similar numbers to LeMond's.
After all that is what is meant to be progress. I am sure it would be the case in the Pre EPO era.
LeMond's average Power output was usually around 5.7 W/KG and if riders are achieving 5.8/5.9 W/KG these days (some 20 years after Lemond) clean I wouldn't be surprised.

Bikes, gear and a good diet do not maketh a GT rider of LeMond's ability.