JV talks, sort of

[Dear Wiggo]

I was responding yo a poster overstating the situation in the opposite way, saying the BP had neutered blood doping and if riders couldn't jack their hematocrit right up they couldn't gain an advantage. The BP is not a silver bullet and the EPO test can be beaten. I was talking about other techniques just to illustrate that doping is getting more sophisticated.

Doping has never been about one PED and one PED alone, either. Even LA and Tyler were using testosterone - all the time - to assist their training.

JV still hasn't answered the question about his ground-breaking training techniques that allowed him to set the record up Mt Ventoux, but I imagine it involved good recovery between sessions.

 

[dsut4392]

You mean there are riders that used to be in the groupetto that are now on or off the front of the peloton!?

There are certainly riders that have gone the other way

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ah the refuge of the clinic 12.

When all else fails, resort to calling people fanboy's, skybot's etc, etc.

Wait a second, you saying 'Full of crap as expected. You guys are so blatantly full of ****, its unreal.', getting the response it deserves and know I am resorting to?

Please.

You have an opinion, I have an opinion, it seems we disagree. You seem to be of the opinion the ABP is a succes, I am of the opinion it is a hoax. It stopped the 500cc blood bags, woopeedoo.

Why are teams still riddled with Ferrara linked team docs? They specialize in blood we have learned over the years. Could it be they know how to dope between the parameters of the ABP? And, when you stretch those parameters with lets say a lot of altitude training, wouldnt that be great?

If you think that in those countries some people are using a strange drug, it is going to be worse in Europe, you are very wrong in my opinion.

Possibly. I was merely pointing out so called high tech PED's are available, even in places like Costa Rica, in cycling terms a third world country.

As far as methods like weight loss drugs are concerned, they must surely exist and may well be altering the "natural" hierarchy within the peloton. But as of yet - and only as of yet - they do not appear to have had a significant positive effect on average climbing speeds.

The average is not interesting, the question should always be who is doing what.

When a fourth tier medicine cabinet cyclist like Rasmussen is tearing up the Tour the France, and, not even with superhuman averages, something is wrong, very wrong.

When Basso wins on Zoncolan in 2010 at 5.6w/k and putting some riders at 6 minutes on that day, two years later being outpaced at 6w/k by those riders something also is fishy.

I read a nice one from the w/k wizard Vetoo on twitter:
vetooo &#8207]

Alberto Contador, Verbier, Tour 2009: 6.73 W/kg
Chris Froome, La Planche des Belles Filles, Tour 2012: 6.67 W/kg

Now, those numbers are kinda nice. Open for any interpretation. Who is doing what? And, has climbing speed gone down?

 

[xcleigh]

I read a nice one from the w/k wizard Vetoo on twitter:
vetooo ‏@ammattipyoraily

Alberto Contador, Verbier, Tour 2009: 6.73 W/kg
Chris Froome, La Planche des Belles Filles, Tour 2012: 6.67 W/kg

Now, those numbers are kinda nice. Open for any interpretation. Who is doing what? And, has climbing speed gone down?

Kinda nice numbers but unfortunately guesswork based on many unknowns to acheive the final number. I wouldn't put too much stock by them.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Kinda nice numbers but unfortunately guesswork based on many unknowns to acheive the final number. I wouldn't put too much stock by them.

Funniest thing, misses Froome said the same thing. She is really roaming the interwebz for fiancees stories.

To the bold, strange thing to say, werent you the one that needed explaining on w/k the other day?

The 'speaker' in this topic thinks differently:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Sad that folks find my words re cycling's past more exciting than the data @ammattipyoraily sends me. It speaks to cycling's, clean, present.

 

[timmers]

Funniest thing, misses Froome said the same thing. She is really roaming the interwebz for fiancees stories.

To the bold, strange thing to say, werent you the one that needed explaining on w/k the other day?

The 'speaker' in this topic thinks differently:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Sad that folks find my words re cycling's past more exciting than the data @ammattipyoraily sends me. It speaks to cycling's, clean, present.

Well you are here to explain it for us. As I have said before if you have evidence of a rider cheating report it to the authorities. All British riders were subject to anti-doping controls prior to the Olympics from UKAD so you are suggesting that they are in collusion with Pat McQuaid and others to conspire to cover up positive tests! Come on! In the UK if you have a story to sell you make a fortune! Why are there no rumours! Possibly because Froome is the one doping but away from the team! But get the evidence and stop sitting at home getting frustrated. Have you thought about cycling as a way to relax?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just a reminder for a rider we should be looking out for this season: Thomas Dekker.

However, he said, “I still have a few points to improve. In the short stage races and one-day races I did pretty well this year. But for a Grand Tour, I really need to be lighter. There is still a kilo or four to go.”

Dekker, who at 188cm weighs 70kg, according to his team website, said, “It is a matter of eating less. Not during the race, but before and after. Only cycling is not enough, because even after three weeks of the Vuelta [a Espana], I only lost 900 grams.”

JV posted in this thread that he thinks Dekker (70kg @ 188cm) can probably
1. lose 4 kg (down to 66kg)
2. maintain his absolute power

I thought I answered. I said probably. Meaning, yes, I imagine he will maintain his gross (not relative) 1 hour power, if he is able to lose 4kgs. That's the reason i went into explaining the upper body mass stuff etc.

 

[xcleigh]

To the bold, strange thing to say, werent you the one that needed explaining on w/k the other day?

I]

Correct and based on the informed answers and opinions to my question you can't place too much stock by numbers calculated based on flimsy or partial data.

 

[Alesle]

I read a nice one from the w/k wizard Vetoo on twitter:
vetooo ‏@ammattipyoraily

Alberto Contador, Verbier, Tour 2009: 6.73 W/kg
Chris Froome, La Planche des Belles Filles, Tour 2012: 6.67 W/kg

Now, those numbers are kinda nice. Open for any interpretation. Who is doing what? And, has climbing speed gone down?

Both relatively short efforts, around 21 and 16 minutes respectively if I recall correct, and as such a relatively larger portion of the climb is down to anaerobic performance. I would recommend looking at (the average of several) climbs of 40+ minutes if you want a better estimation of the riders threshold performance.

That's not to say the numbers aren't massive, just that they aren't particularly well suited to compare to the threshold performance of other riders at longer climbs.

Edit: After looking at vetooo's calculations the numbers for Contador are only from after he attacked, or in other words an effort of 14 min 43 sec.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Edit: After looking at vetooo's calculations the numbers for Contador are only from after he attacked, or in other words an effort of 14 min 43 sec.

Given the way Contador surges mid-climb, his AWC seems pretty good. They are short efforts. Wiggins is doing 482W for an 18 minute TT - that's 6.69W/kg.

Very similar numbers all round.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well you are here to explain it for us. As I have said before if you have evidence of a rider cheating report it to the authorities. All British riders were subject to anti-doping controls prior to the Olympics from UKAD so you are suggesting that they are in collusion with Pat McQuaid and others to conspire to cover up positive tests! Come on! In the UK if you have a story to sell you make a fortune! Why are there no rumours! Possibly because Froome is the one doping but away from the team! But get the evidence and stop sitting at home getting frustrated. Have you thought about cycling as a way to relax?

Why would they test? Brits do not dope.

Cheerio mate.

Edit: After looking at vetooo's calculations the numbers for Contador are only from after he attacked, or in other words an effort of 14 min 43 sec.

Verbiers 2009 was quite the effort. Coming close to that, numberswise, is something I would say. Bare in mind Contador of 2011/2012/2013 is not able to come even close this achievement, an achievement extraterrestial. Or was Contador clean as a whistle in 2009 and were those transfusion kits found in the Astana trash bins not his?

Vaughters' rider Wiggins came in 1 minute 6 seconds down on Contador that day, 3 years later he is almost at par with Contador 2009, numberswise, uphill.

 

[wwabbit]

Alberto Contador, Verbier, Tour 2009: 6.73 W/kg
Chris Froome, La Planche des Belles Filles, Tour 2012: 6.67 W/kg

Looking at his variables at http://pastebin.com/wqjZ3QWA it looks like he calculated

Contador's 5.56km from the point where he attacked, whereas Froome's values started from 5.9km out, where Michael Rogers was still pulling and Richie Porte taking over from 4km to 2km. Cadel Evans also pulled for a short time after the flamme rouge.

Froome's numbers will probably be closedly matched by Evans, Wiggins and Nibali too. Vetooo calculated Janez Brajkovic's doing 6.36 W/kg for the same climb, so Pierre Rolland, Denis Menchov, Haimar Zubeldia and Rein Taaramae must be doing that or higher too if he is right.

 

[blackcat]

jamie burrow. the best climber sky never had.

beat pantanis record on plateau de beille .

beat Thor in the tt in the same race when Thor was the reigning world champ in the espoirs.

 

[blackcat]

Just a reminder for a rider we should be looking out for this season: Thomas Dekker.



JV posted in this thread that he thinks Dekker (70kg @ 188cm) can probably
1. lose 4 kg (down to 66kg)
2. maintain his absolute power

i gotta get on a gluten free and ricecake diet.

think, chicken rasmussen does vegan on garmin. ftw

 

[JimmyFingers]

JV are you a bit narked that the Giro is being built up as a showdown between Wiggins and Nibali despite Hesjedal being the reigning champion? Also what sort of form did he have going into the Tour before the crash?

 

[Froome19]

It is the perfect setting imo for Garmin. Instead of coming in and being made to do all the hard work they will allow Astana and Sky to pick up the baton in similar fashion to how Liquigas rode last year and thus the pressure is subsequently off Hesjedal and his team.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The media may be focused on the Wiggins/Nibali duel, but the peloton won't be as much: Hesjedal will be heavily marked.

 

[Froome19]

The media may be focused on the Wiggins/Nibali duel, but the peloton won't be as much: Hesjedal will be heavily marked.

But his team will have much less pressure to make the race and similarly, though he may be marked undoubtedly, he himself will have a certain element of possibly taking advantage of the Nibali, Wiggins duel. Not to attack as he was allowed to do on the Cervinia stage last year but rather to follow.

 

[Benotti69]

I bet JV is pi$$ed off his boy is not being talked about. He should be if he learnt anything so far for his MBA, as it is bad for his sponsors if Hesjedal is not pictured as a potential winner with their logos in the picture.

 

[Froome19]

Better he is the eventual winner rather than the potential winner though.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Better he is the eventual winner rather than the potential winner though.

Due credit to Hesjedal, it's exactly what he did last year despite the best efforts of the Italians

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Due credit to Hesjedal, it's exactly what he did last year despite the best efforts of the Italians

What do you mean?

 

[taiwan]

Was going to post the same thing. Long story short he means he's pleased that someone won who speaks English. But carry on.

 

[Ferminal]

Probably Basso's FIERCE tempo on Giau.

 

[blackcat]

I bet JV is pi$$ed off his boy is not being talked about. He should be if he learnt anything so far for his MBA, as it is bad for his sponsors if Hesjedal is not pictured as a potential winner with their logos in the picture.

jonny vee usually kills it with his media strategy. no one has a lick on gamins punching power pro rata.

a coupla articles in uk press and on cyclingnews, he will give them that, then co-ordinate his rockets when there is bigtime press to win.