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JV talks, sort of

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Apr 7, 2015
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People like Vaughters know they are hypocrites but when pushed on it they blame the media and the public, which is rather hypocritical...
 
Apr 7, 2015
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meat puppet said:
you people comment on positive tests and think today is dope... well, is liveing in an past era. toady, is disponibility riders win cleans, is becouse new era. i know becouse i know an guy.
You, me and 'you know who' knows the same guy...
 
May 26, 2010
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the delgados said:
Apologies for not explaining myself very well.
I know he lied, as do every rider who proclaim themselves to be clean only to get popped or implicated years later.
My point is perhaps the best way to stop the lies from both riders and team managers is to have a serious discussion about allowing certain elements of doping into the peloton.
I think it was Gesinck who dropped out of a race today citing fatigue. He's one of the best riders in the world--one of whom JV should have picked up a while back. At least he gives the impression of riding clean by dropping out of races. After all, that was the original motto of Slipstream Sports--we don't care if you win as long as you ride clean.
Nope. Need to rip it up and start again from scratch. 1st thing to do is get UCI out of Switzerland and into a country where UCI can't hide.

A better designed season will allow riders recuperate between big races. GTs will always be GTs, but if only 50 riders finish, so what!

So much wrong in the sport. Better off the burn it down and start anew, without the likes of JV, Riis et al..
 
the delgados said:
And I totally agree with him.
I understand the frustrations of folks here and the rush to point out hypocritical statements made years ago by the likes of JV. But folding the team and putting, what, 80 people out of work because a two-bit pro about to retire put some cream on his sack (actually, i just made that up; I don't know how testo is applied) seems extremely masochistic.
Really, what good would that do?
The Kimmage thread prompted me to pick up Rough Ride for the first time in 20 years, and the similarities between today and yesterday are striking. And I'm not just referring to dpoing.
I'm referring to the amount of miles and races the riders put in and it amazes me that anyone could get through a season without doping.
I see so many riders line up at the Tour of Poland who rode Le Tour and wonder how in the hell they can do it.
I apologize for veering off topic here, but maybe it's time to revisit the whole doping think in a sincere manner, rather than continuing to demonize riders who are trying to survive.
That's the point though. It was a hard bargain. It created the accountability that he thought would keep his riders clean. It created the accountability that his sponsors wanted to invest in. It was skin in the game for actually executing his own guiding philosophy for the team.

On another level, it represented the fact that doping isn't fair. It is the idea that our current accountability system bans the guilty rider: he screws himself. But the reality is that a doper is frauding every clean athlete out of their paycheck. That's another level behind Vaughter's previous commitment: that it isn't a "fair" consequence, because doping isn't fair, and more needs to be done to make the time match the crime. By repeating the mantra over and over, he tried to build a culture for any dopers. Not a "You dope, I shut down the team", but a "You dope, you *** everyone on the team." Obviously didn't work, but the idea behind his commitment was a change in attitude.

I had very little respect for JV before August. But if stuck to his guns, kept his skin in the game (by leaving the game), I would almost do a 180 on my opinion. But now, my opinion is lower that whatever it was before. He's at last chance saloon, telling everyone the party can keep going at his apartment after closing time.
 
Jul 18, 2014
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Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
 
May 26, 2010
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Vaughters set himself and Slipstream up as different (teamsky stole to model and pushed the BS further) they were going to be clean, internal testing, winning not important (till you read his twitter feed) and if anyone f**ked up that was it, the plugged got pulled, which was a nice idea as More Strides says, it meant everyone had to be in with the plan or if they didn't they would have the whole gig on their conscience but riders and most in the sport are amoral and when it comes down to it downright selfish. JV is just another idiot liar in a sport full of them. When it came to it, Vaughter's had to say sorry, we made a deal, it is over. Nope it was a lie, but then most of us who have been burnt watching this sport countless times in our 'Mom's basement' knew JV aint nothing special. He just likes to think he is different, smarter, but in Vaughter's case another ex doper running a dirty team telling fans some *** he thinks they'll believe. Most will and they'll get the sport they deserve.
 
May 26, 2010
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Enrico Gimondi said:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Armstrong putting the boot in right now is real trailer trash. Guy should've kept quiet and dignified, but you can take man out the trailer park, cant take the trailer park out of the man!
 
May 26, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Enrico Gimondi said:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Armstrong putting the boot in right now is real trailer trash. Guy should've kept quiet and dignified, but you can take man out the trailer park, cant take the trailer park out of the man!
Normally I'd agree, but it's Vaughters and he deserves every boot he's getting at the minute.
 
May 26, 2010
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BYOP88 said:
Benotti69 said:
Enrico Gimondi said:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Armstrong putting the boot in right now is real trailer trash. Guy should've kept quiet and dignified, but you can take man out the trailer park, cant take the trailer park out of the man!
Normally I'd agree, but it's Vaughters and he deserves every boot he's getting at the minute.
Sure, but Armstrong staying quiet was a bigger boot to put in if you see what i mean. Vaughters expected this tweet.

But i think Vaughters, even with all his fancy wines, classic porsche and MBA, truly belongs in the cesspit that is pro cycling.
 
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Enrico Gimondi said:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
I always had a feeling the Slipstream project was partly motivated to settle a score and piss Armstrong off.
Seems it was a job well done.
But *** like this doesn't do anything to further the sport, if by furthering the sport of clean cycling is what's meant here.
Just another pissing contest.
Well done, boys!
 
MacRoadie said:
davebqvst said:
JV speaks, on Twitter:
@vaughters:
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Note the subtle yet clear redefining and control of the narrative.

Before, folding up shop and ending the whole operation was, by Vaughter's own account, the only proper and honorable thing to do. One doper and we're done was the clear and unambiguous mantra.

Early on, the team implemented a stringent doping policy that remains today. If a rider is caught doping, the whole team will be fired.
Now, doing so would be "selfish" and hurting "a few good people".

In other words, Jonathan is doing the right thing by doing exactly the opposite of what he said was the right thing to do.
It was only designed as an escape route. At first the firm stance against doping looks good on paper and impress on sponsors all the while he had the explanations ready if it went sour: that it would be "selfish" quitting now. Going so far that it is him taking the moral high ground with him being "unselfish" in this "hard time". A true leader of character and great strenght.

Deep down we all knew that he wouldnt stand by his words when/if the time came. Well, the time came and in pro-cycling it is the same procedure as always.
 
May 26, 2010
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............the hypocrisy of Slipstream and JV

Feargal McKay ‏@fmk_RoI Aug 3

For a team that prides itself on fan engagement Garmin being remarkably quiet.

In terms of crisis management this makes Sky lk professional.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Enrico Gimondi said:
Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Easy to understand if someone has readed Hamilton s book and know that relationship.

Vaughter was the only one questioning doping and Lance authority in that team, and Lance hated him and hate still. We all knows who kind of person is Lance, and how much we can rely on his word.


Every time that Lance talk, any person who like cycling must ask him to shup up. It looks like in this forum not so many people like cycling.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
... Vaughter's case another ex doper running a dirty team telling fans some *** he thinks they'll believe.
This sums up.

Touting a super clean team got him in the big leagues. Once he got there he had to play ball.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
Easy to understand if someone has readed Hamilton s book and know that relationship.

Vaughter was the only one questioning doping and Lance authority in that team, and Lance hated him and hate still. We all knows who kind of person is Lance, and how much we can rely on his word.
He wasnt questioning doping, he wanted to know everything about it, big difference.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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HelmutRoole said:
Touting a super clean team got him in the big leagues. Once he got there he had to play ball.
i also dont reckon Doug Ellis went to JV and suggested a tour team in July.

I reckon JV prolly hit up a number of folk, but Ellis was the most partial and stumped up the NOT insignificant cash.

why do I think this? just a pattern where i could recognise conflicts when one triangulates JV's record in the media. What would go against my assumption, if Millar's stake. Someone who was asked for an investment, would be less likely to forgo a stake to Millar. There are prolly other elements in JV's favour, and more elements, for my position.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Of course Garmin is not a dirty team becouse Danielson take testosterone previous Utah, or even if he took something every time the last years he was strong, as those races in USA, Burgos, etc....

JV have always said the risk is there, He always asked a commision or true and start from zero.

Danielson was caught and that is important. If the second test is positive, he should be hardly punished by pying lot of money: 3 years contract IMO.

There are people as Zabriskie or Thomas Dekker that from the begining is that team change his performances... other people in the transitional era changed different.
 
Zabriskie rofl. Was total dogballs on the continent but loved juicing up for the North American races (not the only one...CVV and TD himself more recently have done this). Got even worse 'post-admission' and had to retire. The Allen Lim Logistics Corporation no longer operates internationally?
 
Re:

Ferminal said:
Zabriskie rofl. Was total dogballs on the continent but loved juicing up for the North American races (not the only one...CVV and TD himself more recently have done this). Got even worse 'post-admission' and had to retire. The Allen Lim Logistics Corporation no longer operates internationally?
Didnt Kimmage say all the TdF riders couldn't wait till the after tour, so they could dope with impunity in the Crits.
(Not to win, because that was fixed before, but just to get though)
 
the delgados said:
And I totally agree with him.
I understand the frustrations of folks here and the rush to point out hypocritical statements made years ago by the likes of JV. But folding the team and putting, what, 80 people out of work because a two-bit pro about to retire put some cream on his sack (actually, i just made that up; I don't know how testo is applied) seems extremely masochistic.
It depends of the particular form.

The two most common routes are a patch (like a nicotine one), or an underarm preparation, applied like a deodourant.

Some forms are taken by injection (Intramuscular IIRC), and yes there are creams you can spread on yourself.

Injectables I believe are the most potent, but obviously have a much messier chain of evidence built up.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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It's almost inconceivable that someone being tested would use injectables because the glow time is weeks versus transdermal testosterone, which is hours. Also, keep in mind that testosterone raises your blood pressure, which is not conducive to endurance performance since your heart will be pumping against restricted pathways. With trans dermal there is a spike in your testosterone that quickly returns to normal. I talked to Kirt Willett (former pro, now MD) four story about testosterone. He said, this is not a direct quote, that testosterone expands the hemoglobin and that it is a cornerstone of any doping program, especially O2 vector.
 
Re:

Ferminal said:
Zabriskie rofl. Was total dogballs on the continent but loved juicing up for the North American races (not the only one...CVV and TD himself more recently have done this). Got even worse 'post-admission' and had to retire. The Allen Lim Logistics Corporation no longer operates internationally?
It makes me angry that Lim now has a stupid food company with good marketing and all the hip bloggers and tumblr dummies love him. Most have no idea who that lying fool is; I've been angry with him since he did an interview around the Lance demise time and said he knew NOTHING about doping at USPS.

Yeah right.
 
So what is the story with Ted King? Seems like a strong rider, nothing amazing. Also seems like an affable dude.

And now he's retiring when he seems to be riding pretty darn well. Is he tired of the pressure to dope? Is he tired of being around dopers? Is he tired of doping?
 
Jun 24, 2013
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nayr497 said:
So what is the story with Ted King? Seems like a strong rider, nothing amazing. Also seems like an affable dude.

And now he's retiring when he seems to be riding pretty darn well. Is he tired of the pressure to dope? Is he tired of being around dopers? Is he tired of doping?
No he's not. Only reason he ever got into the wt was because Cannondale wanted some Americans on Liquigas. It became quite pathetic when they also wanted him to ride le Tour.
 

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