People like Vaughters know they are hypocrites but when pushed on it they blame the media and the public, which is rather hypocritical...
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You, me and 'you know who' knows the same guy...meat puppet said:you people comment on positive tests and think today is dope... well, is liveing in an past era. toady, is disponibility riders win cleans, is becouse new era. i know becouse i know an guy.
the delgados said:Apologies for not explaining myself very well.
I know he lied, as do every rider who proclaim themselves to be clean only to get popped or implicated years later.
My point is perhaps the best way to stop the lies from both riders and team managers is to have a serious discussion about allowing certain elements of doping into the peloton.
I think it was Gesinck who dropped out of a race today citing fatigue. He's one of the best riders in the world--one of whom JV should have picked up a while back. At least he gives the impression of riding clean by dropping out of races. After all, that was the original motto of Slipstream Sports--we don't care if you win as long as you ride clean.
the delgados said:And I totally agree with him.
I understand the frustrations of folks here and the rush to point out hypocritical statements made years ago by the likes of JV. But folding the team and putting, what, 80 people out of work because a two-bit pro about to retire put some cream on his sack (actually, i just made that up; I don't know how testo is applied) seems extremely masochistic.
Really, what good would that do?
The Kimmage thread prompted me to pick up Rough Ride for the first time in 20 years, and the similarities between today and yesterday are striking. And I'm not just referring to dpoing.
I'm referring to the amount of miles and races the riders put in and it amazes me that anyone could get through a season without doping.
I see so many riders line up at the Tour of Poland who rode Le Tour and wonder how in the hell they can do it.
I apologize for veering off topic here, but maybe it's time to revisit the whole doping think in a sincere manner, rather than continuing to demonize riders who are trying to survive.
Enrico Gimondi said:Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Lance Armstrong @lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Benotti69 said:Enrico Gimondi said:Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Lance Armstrong @lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Armstrong putting the boot in right now is real trailer trash. Guy should've kept quiet and dignified, but you can take man out the trailer park, cant take the trailer park out of the man!
BYOP88 said:Benotti69 said:Enrico Gimondi said:Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Lance Armstrong @lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Armstrong putting the boot in right now is real trailer trash. Guy should've kept quiet and dignified, but you can take man out the trailer park, cant take the trailer park out of the man!
Normally I'd agree, but it's Vaughters and he deserves every boot he's getting at the minute.
Enrico Gimondi said:Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Lance Armstrong @lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
MacRoadie said:davebqvst said:JV speaks, on Twitter:
@vaughters:
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Note the subtle yet clear redefining and control of the narrative.
Before, folding up shop and ending the whole operation was, by Vaughter's own account, the only proper and honorable thing to do. One doper and we're done was the clear and unambiguous mantra.
Early on, the team implemented a stringent doping policy that remains today. If a rider is caught doping, the whole team will be fired.
Now, doing so would be "selfish" and hurting "a few good people".
In other words, Jonathan is doing the right thing by doing exactly the opposite of what he said was the right thing to do.
Feargal McKay @fmk_RoI Aug 3
For a team that prides itself on fan engagement Garmin being remarkably quiet.
In terms of crisis management this makes Sky lk professional.
Enrico Gimondi said:Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters 5h5 hours ago
Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
Lance Armstrong @lancearmstrong 7m7 minutes ago
@Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
Benotti69 said:... Vaughter's case another ex doper running a dirty team telling fans some *** he thinks they'll believe.
He wasnt questioning doping, he wanted to know everything about it, big difference.Taxus4a said:Easy to understand if someone has readed Hamilton s book and know that relationship.
Vaughter was the only one questioning doping and Lance authority in that team, and Lance hated him and hate still. We all knows who kind of person is Lance, and how much we can rely on his word.
HelmutRoole said:Touting a super clean team got him in the big leagues. Once he got there he had to play ball.
Ferminal said:Zabriskie rofl. Was total dogballs on the continent but loved juicing up for the North American races (not the only one...CVV and TD himself more recently have done this). Got even worse 'post-admission' and had to retire. The Allen Lim Logistics Corporation no longer operates internationally?
the delgados said:And I totally agree with him.
I understand the frustrations of folks here and the rush to point out hypocritical statements made years ago by the likes of JV. But folding the team and putting, what, 80 people out of work because a two-bit pro about to retire put some cream on his sack (actually, i just made that up; I don't know how testo is applied) seems extremely masochistic.
Ferminal said:Zabriskie rofl. Was total dogballs on the continent but loved juicing up for the North American races (not the only one...CVV and TD himself more recently have done this). Got even worse 'post-admission' and had to retire. The Allen Lim Logistics Corporation no longer operates internationally?
nayr497 said:So what is the story with Ted King? Seems like a strong rider, nothing amazing. Also seems like an affable dude.
And now he's retiring when he seems to be riding pretty darn well. Is he tired of the pressure to dope? Is he tired of being around dopers? Is he tired of doping?