JV talks, sort of

[HelmutRoole]

Re:

That is reading a lot into it, but nothing would surprise me. There must be some guys who just like to ride/race and figure it beats working as a barista, bike shop employee, spin class instructor. Not everyone is Evelyn Stevens.

I am reading a lot into it, true.

I wonder if a Phil Gaimon thread is warranted to watch his performances closely. I don't doubt he raced clean here in the states. That tattoo, it speaks volumes ref., youthful indiscretion. Here's an opportunity to follow a guy, likely clean, into the cesspool.

I wonder if he'd be willing to release wattage figures, vO2 max, cardiac output? I mean, the big names... Meh, we know they're doping. This brings it down a level. Makes it more interesting. To me anyway.

 

[Digger]

phil could very well be clean - I don't know - but the days of a tattoo, or wristband, saying you're clean, meaning anything, are long gone. (Those days never existed)
Michael Barry used to wear a wristband saying he was clean - back in 06...

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Agreed, but I'm guessing you and I came away with a vastly different impression. For me that part reads, you only live once. I don't think it's his intention for it to read that way.

What I'm seeing is a guy who has made up his mind to dope and this column is a prelude, a preemptive explanation, to the performances that will follow. Obviously I'm speculating.

Look, this guy has spent years near the top, as an athlete and a columnist. He knows what time it is. He's probably looking at guys like Pate and thinking he has that type of talent: the kind required to fly well below the Bio Passport as a domestique and never come close to getting caught. I agree with him. I mean, that's the playing field. Stay within the white lines and you'll be fine.

That is the playing field.

I remember four or so years back at the Veulta, renowned clean Canadian Svein Tuft towed the field all day and after, Cavandish tweeted words to the effect, nice ride mate. Now, I don't think he really meant, gosh you're a good cyclist. I think he was commending his decision to join the Omertà: "See mate, you don't have to do this the hard way. "

'nother brilliant contribution HR.

In the words of the Australian 1km track champion Martin Vinnicombe, "if you are in the kitchen, you gotta get cookin' "

MV won gold at Worlds, only silver, "only" I say, at Olympics, but anyone who knows the 1km and the 1 hundredths of a second separating the top two, this means it was just a random circadian rhythm probability, or, as I like to say, it came down to which side of the bed he got out of on the morning concerned.

#getcookin'

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Agreed, but I'm guessing you and I came away with a vastly different impression. For me that part reads, you only live once. I don't think it's his intention for it to read that way.

What I'm seeing is a guy who has made up his mind to dope and this column is a prelude, a preemptive explanation, to the performances that will follow. Obviously I'm speculating.

Look, this guy has spent years near the top, as an athlete and a columnist

. He knows what time it is. He's probably looking at guys like Pate and thinking he has that type of talent: the kind required to fly well below the Bio Passport as a domestique and never come close to getting caught. I agree with him. I mean, that's the playing field. Stay within the white lines and you'll be fine.

That is the playing field.

I remember four or so years back at the Veulta, renowned clean Canadian Svein Tuft towed the field all day and after, Cavandish tweeted words to the effect, nice ride mate. Now, I don't think he really meant, gosh you're a good cyclist. I think he was commending his decision to join the Omertà: "See mate, you don't have to do this the hard way. "

[/quote]

Huh?

To me, your comment is only evidence of his marketing skills, ala:

Years at the top? He had a good result in South America two seasons ago. That's about it.

There is a lot of vitriol, I think I understand the points of view, but don't put words in your mouth (not you , but anyone's).

Is it that he wants to be part of Garmin, which is seen as a wolf in sheep's clothing? His friendship and advocacy of Danielson? Is it that he is a talker than athlete? Or that everything Phil is a smokescreen and he's a doper all along?

I don't want my post to sound sarcastic; each one of those can be backed up. I just can't tell what the perspectives are.

Personally, I think he's just an idiot. He had a window where that could be called naivete, but that has passed. A bright eyed kid could be duped by Vaughters, Danielson and new generation talk. He hasn't been around the block, and isn't in the know, of anything. He's just thinks he's on the inside, and is loud enough that people believe him. I don't think there's any ill-will, or even willful ignorance, just that his opinions come only from his own experiences and not the information (easily) available. I do think there is a responsibility of every athlete to know their sport, and he doesn't. Which is why he's an idiot. But not the omerta-charged con artist he seems to have been made out to be.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re:

phil could very well be clean - I don't know - but the days of a tattoo, or wristband, saying you're clean, meaning anything, are long gone. (Those days never existed)
Michael Barry used to wear a wristband saying he was clean - back in 06...

Don't get you girlfriend's named tattooed on your arm. Even if you're really feeling it. Because, someday, that feeling might change, maybe go away completely.

What I'm saying is, when he sat down for that tattoo, we was clean and his intent was to stay true. But now? I think he's moving on.

If my theory holds true, that tattoo will feature prominently in some future promotional campaign.

 

[zigmeister]

Re: Re:

This should be interesting: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/rider-journal/phil-gaimon-journal-another-round-of-the-tour-de-phil_387775

Sounds like he might need a tattoo removal specialist.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

If my theory holds true, that tattoo will feature prominently in some future promotional campaign.

If a lot of theories hold true, it will feature...

The theory of gravity features in most cycling races. Doesn't mean Newton was a cycling fan.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

This should be interesting: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/rider-journal/phil-gaimon-journal-another-round-of-the-tour-de-phil_387775

Sounds like he might need a tattoo removal specialist.

WTF are you talking about?

Gaimon+tattoo=

https://www.google.com/search?q=phil+gaimon+tattoo&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS649US650&oq=gaimon+ta&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US#imgrc=3O8ERxTrC9nGmM%3A

Try to keep up.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If my theory holds true, that tattoo will feature prominently in some future promotional campaign.

If a lot of theories hold true, it will feature...

The theory of gravity features in most cycling races. Doesn't mean Newton was a cycling fan.

Yeah, but was Newton a doper?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

If my theory holds true, that tattoo will feature prominently in some future promotional campaign.

more genius.


but HR, you do realise, there are TWO potential campaigns. TWO. not one.

the first one, which is the one I think you are channeling, is Sir Jonathan of Vaughters, yet to be knighted, where Jay Vee hold Gaimon and his ink up, not as a hipster, but as a symbol of the cleanest of clean sport, except for the OD of tattoo ink. (channel the Portlandia song about tattoo ink run dry!)

The other campaign, is the one where he is busted, and does a David Millar Betty Ford 12 Steps program and renounces and regrets, and they show the tattoo, and he is the prone martyr, and regrets, apologises, and shows his ink. its the penance and pain campaign 'n alliterationz

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

This should be interesting: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/rider-journal/phil-gaimon-journal-another-round-of-the-tour-de-phil_387775

Sounds like he might need a tattoo removal specialist.

WTF are you talking about?

Gaimon+tattoo=

https://www.google.com/search?q=phil+gaimon+tattoo&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS649US650&oq=gaimon+ta&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US#imgrc=3O8ERxTrC9nGmM%3A

Try to keep up.

I gotta new avatar!!!

#HipsterTattsRemovals

 

[blackcat]

the ferking irony.

The tattoo artist was having a lend of you Gaimon, like when some poor western kunt walks into a tattoo shop in Mumbai or Krung Thep Thailan and they put the sanskrit tattoo instead of some buddhism aphorism, but something related to your mother's genitalia.


Well, here the tattoo artist has used the Fight Club soap made from liposuction fat or other medical waste material, that is the visual symbol, so this takes on a whole new interpretation. Ok, its green, not the pink/purple.

but by god, that is some genius soap tattooing

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

 

[blackcat]

chuck ferkin pahulniak or however you spell his last name

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Re: Re:

Look, this guy has spent years near the top, as an athlete and a columnist. He knows what time it is. He's probably looking at guys like Pate and thinking he has that type of talent: the kind required to fly well below the Bio Passport as a domestique and never come close to getting caught. I agree with him. I mean, that's the playing field. Stay within the white lines and you'll be fine.

That is the playing field.

I remember four or so years back at the Veulta, renowned clean Canadian Svein Tuft towed the field all day and after, Cavandish tweeted words to the effect, nice ride mate. Now, I don't think he really meant, gosh you're a good cyclist. I think he was commending his decision to join the Omertà: "See mate, you don't have to do this the hard way. "

This is bonkers.

Gaimon is a very good rider. He can win NRC races that have 10-15min climbs, with pretty weak competition. He can be a strong dom in the ProTour, maybe stage hunt at Algarve or Pais Basque. If he ends up competing for GC at Paris-Nice or Dauphine, maybe he's up to something. His performances have been very consistent, with an off year this season.

Tuft has completely performed to expectations. He has a huge motor and is super tough, but very little top-end. There is not a lot of competition to ride the front during the latter parts of the Vuelta. He just did what he's always done, and the bunch let him, and thats it. He still climbs like a rock and is only competitive in TTTs, maybe 1 or 2 ITTs a year.

FWIW, Pate is a much bigger talent than either, but checked out mentally long ago.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Look, this guy has spent years near the top, as an athlete and a columnist. He knows what time it is. He's probably looking at guys like Pate and thinking he has that type of talent: the kind required to fly well below the Bio Passport as a domestique and never come close to getting caught. I agree with him. I mean, that's the playing field. Stay within the white lines and you'll be fine.

That is the playing field.

I remember four or so years back at the Veulta, renowned clean Canadian Svein Tuft towed the field all day and after, Cavandish tweeted words to the effect, nice ride mate. Now, I don't think he really meant, gosh you're a good cyclist. I think he was commending his decision to join the Omertà: "See mate, you don't have to do this the hard way. "

This is bonkers.

Gaimon is a very good rider. He can win NRC races that have 10-15min climbs, with pretty weak competition. He can be a strong dom in the ProTour, maybe stage hunt at Algarve or Pais Basque. If he ends up competing for GC at Paris-Nice or Dauphine, maybe he's up to something. His performances have been very consistent, with an off year this season.

Tuft has completely performed to expectations. He has a huge motor and is super tough, but very little top-end. There is not a lot of competition to ride the front during the latter parts of the Vuelta. He just did what he's always done, and the bunch let him, and thats it. He still climbs like a rock and is only competitive in TTTs, maybe 1 or 2 ITTs a year.

FWIW, Pate is a much bigger talent than either, but checked out mentally long ago.

All three are big talents but so is everyone at that level. They go through the same gates to the point where the talent is nearly homogenized. That's why doping stands out.

The idea that Pate, or anyone for that matter, could be competitive while mentally checked-out is urban legend. The notion that there are cycling savants who either half step their way through a pro career or, even more ludicrous, win the Tour clean, is storybook fantasy.

My perspective is, I don't believe any Pro Tour riders race clean, or if they do, they don't last long. I think Gaimon tried and at some point saw the writing on the wall. So now he's back with an adjusted attitude.

I don't think you'll see him slugging it out with Froome because that tattoo and all it represents would require too much explaining. It takes a special person to load up on dope, turn in starkly unrealistic performances and then deftly lie about it day in, day out. It's likely not for everyone.

The reason Gaimon interests me is because he is the type of rider who can be a safe and valuable asset to a team manager: a guy who doesn't require a large amount of dope to be productive. He's content being a domestique flying well under the bio passport.

I think this type of rider is under represented in the discussion on the forum.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

This is bonkers.

Gaimon is a very good rider. He can win NRC races that have 10-15min climbs, with pretty weak competition. He can be a strong dom in the ProTour, maybe stage hunt at Algarve or Pais Basque. If he ends up competing for GC at Paris-Nice or Dauphine, maybe he's up to something. His performances have been very consistent, with an off year this season.

Gaimon won't ever fight for GC in P-Nice or Dauphine. he won't get there, JV does not need him to get there.
Gaimon does not even need to win races. he sells anyway.
cookies tweets, tattoo, velonews blog, strong legs as a domestique. that's perfect for JV/Cannondale
I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

This is bonkers.

Gaimon is a very good rider. He can win NRC races that have 10-15min climbs, with pretty weak competition. He can be a strong dom in the ProTour, maybe stage hunt at Algarve or Pais Basque. If he ends up competing for GC at Paris-Nice or Dauphine, maybe he's up to something. His performances have been very consistent, with an off year this season.

Gaimon won't ever fight for GC in P-Nice or Dauphine. he won't get there, JV does not need him to get there.
Gaimon does not even need to win races. he sells anyway.
cookies tweets, tattoo, velonews blog, strong legs as a domestique. that's perfect for JV/Cannondale
I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

I agree Gaimon was got to balance the bad news of Tom Danielson.

I would like to know why Gaimon left JV? money or he thought JV was an @sshole...both?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

All three are big talents but so is everyone at that level. They go through the same gates to the point where the talent is nearly homogenized. That's why doping stands out.

The idea that Pate, or anyone for that matter, could be competitive while mentally checked-out is urban legend. The notion that there are cycling savants who either half step their way through a pro career or, even more ludicrous, win the Tour clean, is storybook fantasy.

My perspective is, I don't believe any Pro Tour riders race clean, or if they do, they don't last long. I think Gaimon tried and at some point saw the writing on the wall. So now he's back with an adjusted attitude.

I don't think you'll see him slugging it out with Froome because that tattoo and all it represents would require too much explaining. It takes a special person to load up on dope, turn in starkly unrealistic performances and then deftly lie about it day in, day out. It's likely not for everyone.

The reason Gaimon interests me is because he is the type of rider who can be a safe and valuable asset to a team manager: a guy who doesn't require a large amount of dope to be productive. He's content being a domestique flying well under the bio passport.

I think this type of rider is under represented in the discussion on the forum.

tous dope tout, tous, tout

another valuable HR contribution.

i luv the irony invested in the tatt, it hits my sense of wildean drollery

i am jealous, jelly, #penisenvy

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

This is bonkers.

Gaimon is a very good rider. He can win NRC races that have 10-15min climbs, with pretty weak competition. He can be a strong dom in the ProTour, maybe stage hunt at Algarve or Pais Basque. If he ends up competing for GC at Paris-Nice or Dauphine, maybe he's up to something. His performances have been very consistent, with an off year this season.

Gaimon won't ever fight for GC in P-Nice or Dauphine. he won't get there, JV does not need him to get there.
Gaimon does not even need to win races. he sells anyway.
cookies tweets, tattoo, velonews blog, strong legs as a domestique. that's perfect for JV/Cannondale
I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

I agree Gaimon was got to balance the bad news of Tom Danielson.

I would like to know why Gaimon left JV? money or he thought JV was an @sshole...both?

false dichotomy. you got it right on third attempt

(C) all of the above (both)

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

That is reading a lot into it, but nothing would surprise me. There must be some guys who just like to ride/race and figure it beats working as a barista, bike shop employee, spin class instructor. Not everyone is Evelyn Stevens.

I am reading a lot into it, true.

I wonder if a Phil Gaimon thread is warranted to watch his performances closely. I don't doubt he raced clean here in the states. That tattoo, it speaks volumes ref., youthful indiscretion. Here's an opportunity to follow a guy, likely clean, into the cesspool.

I wonder if he'd be willing to release wattage figures, vO2 max, cardiac output? I mean, the big names... Meh, we know they're doping. This brings it down a level. Makes it more interesting. To me anyway.

well, he has the tatts to be a barista

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Re: Re:

I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

Honestly, unless you want dirt on US domestic riders who retired 5 years ago, I dont think Cooke can do much but repeat second hand gossip.

If he did have info he would be too scared to spill it anyways.

 

[.Froomestrong.]

Re: Re:

I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

Honestly, unless you want dirt on US domestic riders who retired 5 years ago, I dont think Cooke can do much but repeat second hand gossip.

If he did have info he would be too scared to spill it anyways.

Matty and Phil have been going at it on Twitter all year. Safe to say they dont like each other.

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

Honestly, unless you want dirt on US domestic riders who retired 5 years ago, I dont think Cooke can do much but repeat second hand gossip.

If he did have info he would be too scared to spill it anyways.

Matty and Phil have been going at it on Twitter all year. Safe to say they dont like each other.

Said it before but Cooke seems to be desperate for attention. Was friends with Phil Zajicek, rode on Navigators/Health Net/Exergy, said nowt about them but then once he retires, suddenly he is Mr. Anti-doping. The irony being that the word on the grapevine was that Cooke hinself was thought to be a doper and I am not the only person to have heard that.

Just like Steve Tilford, piling in on Garmin/Tommy D etc but completely ignoring the skeletons far closer to his own closet. Did Cooke contact USADA about all his former doping colleagues or said anything publically about them? Cooke seems bitter because he wasn't good enough to make it to the big leagues and you can bet if he had made it, he would have been as quiet as a mouse about what went on.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I wait for some tweets from Matthew Cooke during next season, to see what he says

Honestly, unless you want dirt on US domestic riders who retired 5 years ago, I dont think Cooke can do much but repeat second hand gossip.

If he did have info he would be too scared to spill it anyways.

Matty and Phil have been going at it on Twitter all year. Safe to say they dont like each other.

Said it before but Cooke seems to be desperate for attention. Was friends with Phil Zajicek, rode on Navigators/Health Net/Exergy, said nowt about them but then once he retires, suddenly he is Mr. Anti-doping. The irony being that the word on the grapevine was that Cooke hinself was thought to be a doper and I am not the only person to have heard that.

Just like Steve Tilford, piling in on Garmin/Tommy D etc but completely ignoring the skeletons far closer to his own closet. Did Cooke contact USADA about all his former doping colleagues or said anything publically about them? Cooke seems bitter because he wasn't good enough to make it to the big leagues and you can bet if he had made it, he would have been as quiet as a mouse about what went on.

Yep that all points to Garmin being clean and Phil's tattoo proves it!